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Thread: 2K: Why is the DLC 24kb only?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    You don't own the locked content just because you bought the disk.
    When I buy a game I expect to be able to use everything that is on the disc, 2K simply disregarded this and decided to further their own gain by trying to secretly charge for parts of the game already on the disc.

  2. #122
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    The game wasn't an inferior product or necessarily incomplete the content locked now being unlocked is merely extra data completely unnecessary to the game itself. A lot of concepts were abandoned from the concept designs of the art book. Just because it exists in the art book doesn't mean it needs to be in the game. Its a possibility that the data was meant as part of the original product or always was meant as a DLC, but merely tacked on to the disc for one reason or another. If your not happy with it don't buy it complaining isn't going to do anything not buying it will.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codex View Post
    Having gone back and re-read the thread I'm going to apologize for jumping in here and going off at half-tilt. Think like a capitalist, because that's the only way an "industry" thinks.
    Hey Codex, I'm really glad you posted this retraction (of sorts). I don't post on the forums very often, though I read them quite a lot and your opinions always seem well considered.

    To those arguing that 'you didn't know such and such content was on the disc, you shouldn't expect it to be included in the released version', I don't recall being given a complete list of features, levels, characters etc. So surely that means 2k could have blocked any number of features and charged extra for me to use them?

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    The game wasn't an inferior product or necessarily incomplete the content locked now being unlocked is merely extra data completely unnecessary to the game itself. A lot of concepts were abandoned from the concept designs of the art book. Just because it exists in the art book doesn't mean it needs to be in the game. Its a possibility that the data was meant as part of the original product or always was meant as a DLC, but merely tacked on to the disc for one reason or another. If your not happy with it don't buy it complaining isn't going to do anything not buying it will.
    If do not own or have not seen 100% of the artbook, I will tell you to go somewhere else with your ignorant sidetracking. However if you do own the artbook you will be able to see all the upgrades perfectly lined up next to eachother, same with the characters. Regarding the leftover content, there were always small annotations that stated when or where they got cut in the making, no such thing at the multiplayer part. I'm not "complaining", I simply want 2Kgames to comment on this case, and no not the generic Ubisoft PR bull****, a real commentary on what went wrong. Me not buying the game will have NO influence whatsoever, I chose to use words to express myself, and you are to respect that.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump_monkey View Post
    Hey Codex, I'm really glad you posted this retraction (of sorts). I don't post on the forums very often, though I read them quite a lot and your opinions always seem well considered.

    To those arguing that 'you didn't know such and such content was on the disc, you shouldn't expect it to be included in the released version', I don't recall being given a complete list of features, levels, characters etc. So surely that means 2k could have blocked any number of features and charged extra for me to use them?
    Usually all games have content locked though usually never meant to see the light of day. Technically and though I do find it underhanded by 2K's part the multiplayer DLC isn't payed for when you bought the disc. Those upset with this need to just not buy the content instead of whining as its not going to get anything done.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    Usually all games have content locked though usually never meant to see the light of day. Technically and though I do find it underhanded by 2K's part the multiplayer DLC isn't payed for when you bought the disc. Those upset with this need to just not buy the content instead of whining as its not going to get anything done.
    There is a fine line between locked and unfinished, don't mix those two together.

  7. #127
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    You people make it look like this is uncommon? Sure it seems a tad unfair but all DLC is a rip, no matter if its already on the disc or made later. Resident evil 5 did the same thing with versus mode. It was already on the disc and they just charged for an unlock code.

    I don't get why you all seem so shocked.
    Last edited by A_Man_Chooses; 03-11-2010 at 06:21 AM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vutnock View Post
    There is a fine line between locked and unfinished, don't mix those two together.
    The content being unlocked for the multiplayer DLC is completely unnecessary it isn't enough to place the game as unfinished. If the single player DLC ends up being something similar then the concept of it being unfinished would be something I'd heavily ponder. This has merely gotten too out of hand wait to see 2K's reaction. Still the best thing that can be done to boycott this is to not buy the content.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    Usually all games have content locked though usually never meant to see the light of day. Technically and though I do find it underhanded by 2K's part the multiplayer DLC isn't payed for when you bought the disc. Those upset with this need to just not buy the content instead of whining as its not going to get anything done.
    Right, well as you've addressed me directly: I didn't plan on buying the dlc, to be honest I couldn't care less about it. The thing is I find 2k's tactic underhanded and appreciate the OP trying to get some kind of response as to why it was encoded on the disc, is presumably fully functional, could have been included at release and yet was held back so 2k could make another note or two from people who want to use this stuff. Some developers may block content from titles for different reasons. If it's simply to make money then people do need to 'whine'. This shouldn't be accepted as the norm, and if you're mug enough to accept this then good for you.

  10. #130
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    Imagine 2k went out of business tomorrow and with this the license you paid for to access content on a disc you already own is revoked. Now you don't get to play the content already on the disc you purchased and then paid extra to license for use at all and someone can come along and acquire said license and charge you to purchase it again. I'm sure all of you defending the double dip mentality here would be happy with that also because you got good use out of it the first time and are more then happy to pay a third time too.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vutnock View Post
    I'm not "complaining", I simply want 2Kgames to comment on this case, and no not the generic Ubisoft PR bull****, a real commentary on what went wrong.
    This is exactly what I'm saying, THANK YOU!

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump_monkey View Post
    Right, well as you've addressed me directly: I didn't plan on buying the dlc, to be honest I couldn't care less about it. The thing is I find 2k's tactic underhanded and appreciate the OP trying to get some kind of response as to why it was encoded on the disc, is presumably fully functional, could have been included at release and yet was held back so 2k could make another note or two from people who want to use this stuff. Some developers may block content from titles for different reasons. If it's simply to make money then people do need to 'whine'. This shouldn't be accepted as the norm, and if you're mug enough to accept this then good for you.
    This complaining about 2K's actions doesn't do nothing not buy the DLC does. 2K merely got caught this isn't something new. I'm personally am not going to buy the multiplayer DLC. I do find it underhanded, but whining doesn't get anything done.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    The content being unlocked for the multiplayer DLC is completely unnecessary it isn't enough to place the game as unfinished. If the single player DLC ends up being something similar then the concept of it being unfinished would be something I'd heavily ponder. This has merely gotten too out of hand wait to see 2K's reaction. Still the best thing that can be done to boycott this is to not buy the content.
    Now you're mixing it up again, I said there's a fine line between locked and unfinished. Let's take bioshock 2 for an example, the content on the disc was there from the release, locked and 100% ready to be released for cash.
    Now let's take world of warcraft for an example, there is alot of unfinished content hidden deep in the files, that was never used till this day. However, blizzard have never tried to plan DLC and make the files available for money, everything has been added in patches and so on, only the expansions were needed to expand the gameplay, and not some files that were there all along.

    I know that you're saying that boycotting the DLC will help, however this is not my interpretation of the situation, so that will not be the case for me.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    I do find it underhanded, but whining doesn't get anything done.
    Unfortunately you're probably right. Still taking it on the chin isn't better, at least this way there is a chance somebody will answer.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by doomed View Post
    This is exactly what I'm saying, THANK YOU!
    Haha man ^^ It's cool, this whole things just been anoying me to the point where I want to see something fresh and new, instead of running in circles.

  16. #136
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    I'll never understand why it's become so popular to defend faceless corporate entities while they shamelessly try to squeeze every cent out of customers, who've already paid up to 120$ for their product, these days.

    Oh, and whining is plenty. As consumers, that's what we do best. That and not buying "DLC" that already exists on a disc we paid 60$ for. As long, of course, you aren't white-knighting for a company whose sole interest in its customers is taking their money.
    Last edited by wat; 03-11-2010 at 07:02 AM.

  17. #137
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    Hey guys,

    I noticed there was a bit of confusion about our Sinclair Solutions Tester Pack file size, and I wanted to clear things up for you. The way our engine and game structure works is that people need to have the exact same content for people to play together. One of the challenges with post launch content for MP is that it can split the player base, and we want to avoid that whenever possible. For this content, creating the DLC package the way we did allowed for us to not split the player base so whether you purchase the new content or not, you can still play with your friends.

    I know some of you have strong beliefs about DLC, and I'm not here to sway your opinion or convince you to buy our stuff - if you like what we're offering, I hope you get it and enjoy it. If it's not your speed, enjoy BioShock 2 as we released it.

    I want to let you know that DLC is not interfering with our patching capabilities, which are a top priority and are still being actively worked on. We're committed to supporting you and making BioShock 2 the best experience possible.

    I hope this clears up a lot of the questions and confusion in this thread!

    Thanks,

    -Elizabeth

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    Hey guys,

    I noticed there was a bit of confusion about our Sinclair Solutions Tester Pack file size, and I wanted to clear things up for you. The way our engine and game structure works is that people need to have the exact same content for people to play together. One of the challenges with post launch content for MP is that it can split the player base, and we want to avoid that whenever possible. For this content, creating the DLC package the way we did allowed for us to not split the player base so whether you purchase the new content or not, you can still play with your friends.

    I know some of you have strong beliefs about DLC, and I'm not here to sway your opinion or convince you to buy our stuff - if you like what we're offering, I hope you get it and enjoy it. If it's not your speed, enjoy BioShock 2 as we released it.

    I want to let you know that DLC is not interfering with our patching capabilities, which are a top priority and are still being actively worked on. We're committed to supporting you and making BioShock 2 the best experience possible.

    I hope this clears up a lot of the questions and confusion in this thread!

    Thanks,

    -Elizabeth
    Ok, see, THIS makes sense. THIS is a reasonable explanation. Why people like Kyburz had to come on here and spread dissent confuses me. In the future Liz, you should tell your mods to hold their tongues until you can come out with an official statement so they don't make you look stupid.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechaflash View Post
    Ok, see, THIS makes sense. THIS is a reasonable explanation. Why people like Kyburz had to come on here and spread dissent confuses me. In the future Liz, you should tell your mods to hold their tongues until you can come out with an official statement so they don't make you look stupid.
    I know I say this a lot, but I never get tired of saying it.

    2K Moderators are NOT official employees. They are gamers, just like you, and they volunteer their time. That means they are not being paid, they are not shills, and they have express orders from me to say exactly how they feel - I don't gag anyone here. I only ask people to follow the rules. So if a mod disagrees or agrees with policies, that has nothing to do with me, or them being a moderator.

    Having said that, I will not tolerate disrespect of my moderators, and a lot of you broke that rule here. I happen to have a fever which unfortunately delayed my reply (sorry about that) but those of you who were not respectful to the moderators in this thread are on my radar. These people are your fellow gamers and they do you a great service by keeping this forum awesome. Treat them nicely, or I will be angry. And no one likes me when I'm angry.

  20. #140
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    Well you may be angry but so are lots of people who bought this game with all its issues and double dip dlc. But I guess that we aren't allowed to be angry or have any sort of opinion that defers from 'this game is so great and 2k is the greatest company ever' or we get labeled as dissenters. Or worse just for expressing our opinions even if we do it in a civil manner we get bashed by other forum members but thats ok too because the mods never do anything to stop that they simply condone it.

  21. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    I know I say this a lot, but I never get tired of saying it.

    2K Moderators are NOT official employees. They are gamers, just like you, and they volunteer their time. That means they are not being paid, they are not shills, and they have express orders from me to say exactly how they feel - I don't gag anyone here. I only ask people to follow the rules. So if a mod disagrees or agrees with policies, that has nothing to do with me, or them being a moderator.

    Having said that, I will not tolerate disrespect of my moderators, and a lot of you broke that rule here. I happen to have a fever which unfortunately delayed my reply (sorry about that) but those of you who were not respectful to the moderators in this thread are on my radar. These people are your fellow gamers and they do you a great service by keeping this forum awesome. Treat them nicely, or I will be angry. And no one likes me when I'm angry.
    I meant no disrespect, and I only meant to say that because of the title people hold mods to a position of authority. When one of them comes out and starts defending an unpopular position that your company never took, people tend to assume that you told them to do it. I think letting people know that they aren't an army of your will is good so people will stop making the association between mods and the employees of 2K.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by FtRapture View Post
    Katherine you are a well respected member so I can certainly appreciate the frustration. The problem is, that threads like this tend to go in circles of complaining with no real outcome.
    there is a real outcome, at least for me. im not buying it. and thats the solution. if people see this for what it is, in effect boycotting the buying of the 'DLC', it may make 2k reconsider what they've done. like 'maybe we should take the time to put together a quality product, think everything through, add achievements and such, and maybe we wont lose money.' its obvious to me that everyone here would love more content for the game, even if we had to wait months. because it means it may actually be worth it and its proven to be something worthwhile and something that the developers actually put time into. its complete and utter bull**** having to pay for something already on the disk, like many are saying. to earn a quick buck for something already on the disk, is wrong. because really, why the hell would you need the extra money when people are buying the hell out of the game itself and copies are selling. 2k has screwed themselves over by being dumb.
    Last edited by MaxMasonGM; 03-11-2010 at 07:22 AM.

  23. #143
    Well I can see from a technical point of view it does make sense, but when other companies produce map packs, you feel like you're getting something they've really made afterwards. Often, with features and design that is a response to how the game is being played.

    Still though, it leaves a sour taste, the wall of mod defense didnt hit the right note either, and its another gripe when people should really be having a seamless experience (at least on consoles, pc owners obviously have tech issues to deal with).

    As i'm still waiting for an FOV amendment so I can play the thing, I'd be so far behind everyone in multi as to make it pointless anyway.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubertino View Post
    Patches don't make money.
    Not releasing patches loses money

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissskr View Post
    Well you may be angry but so are lots of people who bought this game with all its issues and double dip dlc. But I guess that we aren't allowed to be angry or have any sort of opinion that defers from 'this game is so great and 2k is the greatest company ever' or we get labeled as dissenters. Or worse just for expressing our opinions even if we do it in a civil manner we get bashed by other forum members but thats ok too because the mods never do anything to stop that they simply condone it.
    That's most definitely not true. I'm very okay with people not liking our stuff. Actually, that can be more helpful than people who are really excited, because you help tell us what to fix and do better.

    And if anyone is breaking forum rules by insulting you, please PM me or a mod. That's not okay, either, even if you are saying something negative as long as you follow the rules you are always free to post your opinions.

  26. #146
    It may be a cheap shot but people would be liking it a lot more with the FOV unlock!

    Hope your fever gets better, i'm ill myself and its no fun.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by choco View Post
    Well I can see from a technical point of view it does make sense, but when other companies produce map packs, you feel like you're getting something they've really made afterwards. Often, with features and design that is a response to how the game is being played.

    Still though, it leaves a sour taste, the wall of mod defense didnt hit the right note either, and its another gripe when people should really be having a seamless experience (at least on consoles, pc owners obviously have tech issues to deal with).

    As i'm still waiting for an FOV amendment so I can play the thing, I'd be so far behind everyone in multi as to make it pointless anyway.
    As I said before, the mods being pro or con on this issue has nothing to do with me or the company. I'm sure on some other issue you'll see them be against what we've done. It does happen!

    We're not changing the FOV from 75, too (I don't know if you missed me saying that elsewhere) but we did already patch the widescreen on PC.

    I'm not going to debate the philosophical angle of DLC - I understand people who like it, people who hate it, and all the in betweens. For this game, and this company, what I can do is tell you what we're doing, take your suggestions, and try and do it better next time around.

  28. #148
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    most companies make dlc a mandatory patch and then you pay for an unlock code. the way you guys did it makes it look like you made a whole game then cut out a few things so you could charge more later.

    i wonder what else you have locked on these discs

  29. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    As I said before, the mods being pro or con on this issue has nothing to do with me or the company. I'm sure on some other issue you'll see them be against what we've done. It does happen!

    We're not changing the FOV from 75, too (I don't know if you missed me saying that elsewhere) but we did already patch the widescreen on PC.

    I'm not going to debate the philosophical angle of DLC - I understand people who like it, people who hate it, and all the in betweens. For this game, and this company, what I can do is tell you what we're doing, take your suggestions, and try and do it better next time around.

    Just want the horizontal unlock Liz, nothing Bioshock one didnt have! If that's not coming please advise me because i'll sell the game before the price lowers. I get motion sickness as it is.

  30. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    As I said before, the mods being pro or con on this issue has nothing to do with me or the company. I'm sure on some other issue you'll see them be against what we've done. It does happen!

    We're not changing the FOV from 75, too (I don't know if you missed me saying that elsewhere) but we did already patch the widescreen on PC.

    I'm not going to debate the philosophical angle of DLC - I understand people who like it, people who hate it, and all the in betweens. For this game, and this company, what I can do is tell you what we're doing, take your suggestions, and try and do it better next time around.
    We certainly appreciate what you do Liz, its just this specific incident hit a sour note and sort of frenzied people. When you came in and cleared it up, I know I certainly was relieved that what had been argued was not true.

  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    Hey guys,

    I noticed there was a bit of confusion about our Sinclair Solutions Tester Pack file size, and I wanted to clear things up for you. The way our engine and game structure works is that people need to have the exact same content for people to play together. One of the challenges with post launch content for MP is that it can split the player base, and we want to avoid that whenever possible. For this content, creating the DLC package the way we did allowed for us to not split the player base so whether you purchase the new content or not, you can still play with your friends.

    I know some of you have strong beliefs about DLC, and I'm not here to sway your opinion or convince you to buy our stuff - if you like what we're offering, I hope you get it and enjoy it. If it's not your speed, enjoy BioShock 2 as we released it.

    I want to let you know that DLC is not interfering with our patching capabilities, which are a top priority and are still being actively worked on. We're committed to supporting you and making BioShock 2 the best experience possible.

    I hope this clears up a lot of the questions and confusion in this thread!

    Thanks,

    -Elizabeth
    1.Umm... That doesn't even answer the question of file size. Which IS a serious problem, as it proves this is an UNLOCK, which downright theft.

    2. See thats the problem... Id LOVE to enjoy all the content I payed for... but you LOCKED IT.

    3. For a price, I think you forgot to add? Cause that's what this here is.

  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfger View Post
    1.Umm... That doesn't even answer the question of file size. Which IS a serious problem, as it proves this is an UNLOCK, which downright theft.

    2. See thats the problem... Id LOVE to enjoy all the content I payed for... but you LOCKED IT.

    3. For a price, I think you forgot to add? Cause that's what this here is.
    2K Elizabeth explained the reason for the data on the disc enough of this silliness either buy or not buy the content. The multiplayer DLC was added to the disc so that all players online whether they bought the DLC or not wouldn't be split into two separate online groups. The content is storied on the disc to over come a technical difficulty.

  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    2K Elizabeth explained the reason for the data on the disc enough of this silliness either buy or not buy the content. The multiplayer DLC was added to the disc so that all players online whether they bought the DLC or not wouldn't be split into two separate online groups. The content is storied on the disc to over come a technical difficulty.


    See that's the thing, I DID buy it... since I bought the disk... there just gotta be D**Ks and lock it on me.


    And that's horrible logic. If it was made ahead of time to put on the disk in the first place THEN WHY NOT RELEASE IT WITH THE GAME?

  34. #154
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    Liz is correct that the mods are by no means any kind of propaganda machines. Our opinions are our own. Long time posters here will recall that we are often critical of 2k on a variety of issues. I have criticized decisions by 2k/Take Two or one of the 2k studios many times. I apologize if there was any confusion to the extent that we represent 2k games. I'm really just a dude on the internet, at the end of the day.

    I realize my position was going to be an unpopular one in this thread, but it was an honest one and certainly not influenced by Liz or any other member of 2k.

  35. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfger View Post
    See that's the thing, I DID buy it... since I bought the disk... there just gotta be D**Ks and lock it on me.


    And that's horrible logic. If it was made ahead of time to put on the disk in the first place THEN WHY NOT RELEASE IT WITH THE GAME?
    You didn't buy the DLC its merely on the disc to prevent technical difficulties in their multiplayer system. It allows gamers that have bought and haven't bought the DLC to play together otherwise if the content hadn't been on the disc this wouldn't be possible. Its a technical fault of likely their game engine.
    Last edited by Boredmad; 03-11-2010 at 08:32 AM.

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    You didn't buy the DLC its merely on the disc to prevent technical difficulties in their multiplayer system. It allows gamers that have bought and haven't bought the DLC to play together otherwise if the content hadn't been on the disc this wouldn't be possible. Its a technical fault of likely their game engine.
    When you buy a game, you pay for all the content on the disk. AKA, I paid for it.

    And that whole logic is flawed, I already pointed out how.

  37. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfger View Post
    When you buy a game, you pay for all the content on the disk. AKA, I paid for it.

    And that whole logic is flawed, I already pointed out how.
    That the thing you didn't pay for the DLC it was merely placed on the disc as a quick fix of the technical difficulty caused by their multiplayer system. If they hadn't placed the DLC on a disc or through a patch then those who bought the DLC would be a part of a separate online group in multiplayer to those that hadn't bought the DLC. Its was placed as a quick fix to make sure users could still play with their friends even if they didn't buy the DLC.

  38. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    That the thing you didn't pay for the DLC it was merely placed on the disc as a quick fix of the technical difficulty caused by their multiplayer system. If they hadn't placed the DLC on a disc or through a patch then those who bought the DLC would be a part of a separate online group in multiplayer to those that hadn't bought the DLC. Its was placed as a quick fix to make sure users could still play with their friends even if they didn't buy the DLC.
    Im selling a some ocean front property in Arizona real cheap you want to buy it?

  39. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boredmad View Post
    That the thing you didn't pay for the DLC it was merely placed on the disc as a quick fix of the technical difficulty caused by their multiplayer system. If they hadn't placed the DLC on a disc or through a patch then those who bought the DLC would be a part of a separate online group in multiplayer to those that hadn't bought the DLC. Its was placed as a quick fix to make sure users could still play with their friends even if they didn't buy the DLC.
    Your failing to get what im saying, even though your AGREEING with part of what I said XD

    The content is on the disk (minus line of text or "code" to unlock) I payed for said disk, and all the content on it. Thefore, I paid for the content already. And the fact that it was READY before release, but some @$$ said "hey guys, I bet we could get more money if we locked of this bit right here, and sold it to people later! " Is pathetic. That would be like them blocking off a level from campaign, or some extra plasmids or something, simply to sell them later. (which they may have actually done, in which case I'm going to start to REALLY wonder if 2K even cares about anything other then money, such as morale or justice.

  40. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissskr View Post
    Im selling a some ocean front property in Arizona real cheap you want to buy it?
    THANK you for that, I needed some intelligent humor

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