These ideas pretty much tie themselves together. Since I'm barely in the beginning to middle of my first game this is primarily built around those times. Comment if you will on my ideas ..a little rough but.. Great Game so far!
Edit: Finished first game and got second.
Suggestion for Battles:
1. Give all Nations a placement on a map compared to other nations.
1.A. For the purpose of these suggestions, a flat map will do.
2. Give each nation a number of battlefield positions depending on position relative to other nation. I.E. If nation is attacked from this position X number of different battle formations are selected.
2.A. Multiple battlefronts should be open able taking longer to give commands to units furthest way from Nation.
2.A.I. If one battlefront crumbles units are moved to next battlefront in a flanking position.
2.A.II. Retreating units that are farther away takes longer.
2.A.III. Defending units should be able to open up battlefields by attacking the flanks or the rear of the enemy horde invading.
2.B. Each battlefield can have positions open and close depending on battle.
Example I: Battlefield behind enemy was a win for attackers. 3 or 4 positions open in back of defenders on the main battlefield in front of their nation.
Example II: Defenders took out center of attacking army. 1 or 2 more position become available for Defenders center area.
Example III:If the Units in those positions are killed off. The position is removed and the attackers fill in their ranks.
Example IV: A foreign nation joins the attack.
3. Foreign Nations: The Right to join the battle.
3.A.Foreign Nations providing soldiers to any battle must be approved by a member within the nation they are providing units too.
3.A.I. Foreign Nations (Other players) would have their own position on the map.
3.A.II. Foreign Nations: When viewing a battle they can see the positions that their units can be placed in. They see the unit type of player in their respective armies but do not see the counts of the Units.
3.A.III. New positions are opened for Foreign Nations.
3.A.IIII. If Foreign Nation join without approval from either nation in battle. They are deemed hostile to both nations and will attack and be attacked by both nations.
3.B. Foreign Nation should be able to enter battlefield as third party.
3.C. Battle meter should change when a 3rd/4th party joins battle.
4. Attacks each turn.
4.A. More units on a battlefield means more attacks should be occurring.
4.B. Attacks should occur simultaneously or as a time counter per unit. (Similar to D20 roll for initiative).
5. Battlefield status should be viewable for each nation.
Example: Whether the nation has woods, mountains, water in this battlefield location.
(Perhaps even some scouting may be required.)
6. Battlefield changes
Example I: Drought causes rivers/lake to run dry this season. Water tiles become unavailable for ships.
Example II: Heavy rains on the plains have flood positions X and X. Cavalry Units attack less. Position X is unavailable. Spear units hit cav more often because they are bogged down.
Example I: Defending units spend X production to dig trench. Cavalry unit do less damage attacking unit on opposite side of trench. Infantry get a plus to defense. X production would then be equal to how long they build the trench and what era it is in.
Example II: Siege equipment / plan, Invading force spends X production / gold to increase the attack power of units like the catapult for equipment or infantry and cavalry for the plan.
Example I: Units found hill X on the battlefield. Archers have a clear line of sight and counters attacks on units that are adjacent to it.
Example III: Foreign Nation joins battle. Units A, B & C from Nation I and Units B & Z from Nation II become confused and get X% Defense and -X% Offense
EXample IV: Foreign Nation joins battle. Nation I approves support. Unit P and Unit Q gain moral and attack more often.
7. Battlefield Reward
7.A. Proportional amounts of Wood, Production, Gold.
7.B. Special Units
8. Battlefield Command
8.A. Both King and Generals should be able to command troops.
8.B. Secondary Generals should be assignable by the king to command troops in the King's and Primary General's absence. Number of Generals is proportional to size of Army in the nation.
8.C. A percent of all units are automatically commanded by the King and General all other units must be toggled on or off by the player.
8.C.I. 75% of the Units of a Peon level Nation player are Drafted into service.
8.C.II. 50% of the Units of a Duke level Nation player are Drafted into service.
8.C.III. 25% of the Units of a Prince level Nation player are Drafted into service.
8.C.IV. 0% of the King's and Generals' Units are commanded by other Commanders. They must be toggled on by the player.
8.D Player can toggle off giving command of their units to the nation but suffer consequences like increased and stronger barbarian raids targeted at their town or negative stats to the attack and defense of their units.
9.A. Revolution is often time through war and some times foreign entities join them.
9.B. Revolution by war costs one General and can be used by anyone in nation. Internal battlefield occurs. Each player in nation picks their side. Neutral players are ranked one down if they did not choose winning side.
9.C. Foreign Nations can enter battle field as hostiles or as mercs for hire.
9.D. Revolution through mini-wonder should still be possible but it should be more expensive and one person should be able to provide all the Great People for it.
10. Occupation / Serfdom
10.A. Allow the invading army to maintain control of a Nation. Gaining X% of all resources produced in that nation.
10.A.I. Battlefield changes to encamped army within Nation.
10.A.II. Battlefield is continual and occupying army must remain in other nation.
10.A.III. Removal of all units from invading army is an automatic loss of Serfdom.
10.A.IV. Victory through complete subjugation of all other nations.
11. The ability for both sides to speed up the time for a battle to occur by vote.
11.A. Troop majority rules: Speeding up a battle occurs when the players controlling the majority of the troops approve the battle.
11.A.I. Generals get 1 vote.
11.A.II. Player with majority gets 5 votes.
11.A.III. Similar to current hierarchy of voting except with military.
11.A.IV. When majority of votes are gathered to start combat the Nation is green lighted for a go.
11.A.V. Example: Civ "X" has 20 players. One general with the majority of troops, one general assigned with very few troops, two active players with some troops, and 8 not so active player with a couple troops each. If the first general and the two active player were to vote yes the battle would be green lighted because the general has 6 votes and the active player have 3 each making it 11 votes which is higher than the 8 votes from the weak trooped players and 2 votes from the second general which only makes 10 votes.
12.A. Barbarians should be able to attack with different numbers and sometimes stronger units than the current tech.
12.B. Barbarian unit numbers should not be viewable until you have place units on the field.
12.C. Battle begins as soon as units are placed on the battlefield
12.D. Barbarians should reward everyone who beats them whether it is from the nation they are attacking or some foreign nation.
12.D.I. Loot from defending a Foreign Nation from Barbarians should either be gold, production, food, or culture with a small chance of research points, weapon upgrades for a couple of units, or population bonus. Usually weapon upgrades should occur only if Barbarian have high level weapons than your own units.
12.D.II Loot description of victories should be RPG style instead of generic you civilized the barbarians.
12.D.II.a. You defeated "Name of barbarian clan" who were attempting to ravage the country side of "Nation name". You gathered "XXX" (food, gold or production) from them.
12.D.II.b. You defeated "Name of barbarian clan" who were attempting to ravage the country side of "Nation name". The clan had "X' amounts of weapon "weapon name." You have equipped your army with advanced weapons. "X" number of unit "Unit name" have be promoted to "Unit name".
12.D.II.c. You defended "Nation name" from "Name of barbarian clan." The people of "Nation name" hold a feast in your honor. You gained "X" amount of culture.
12.E. Epic level barbarians with several tech levels ahead of you or massive hordes. More loot + fame for defending against them.
12.F. Everyone fighting against barbarians gets some form of reward depending upon how much they contributed to the battle.
12.F.I. Players in the nation being invaded gets a bonus compared to foreign nation defending.
12.1 Barbarian Combat: Contribution Scoring.
12.1.A. Players get reward based on percent of Contribution score.
12.1.B. Score is calculated round by round with neither the beginning nor the end giving bonuses to contribution.
12.1.C. Killing Units adds to Contribution score.
13. Army Maintenance
13.A. Army size can equal population without Maintenance cost.
13.B. Army maintenance equals Army size (Starting with Units that have the highest production cost) - Population = Army Surplus Units . Army Surplus Units times Average Production Cost of remaining units multipled by 5% rounded up = Army Maintenance Cost.
13.C. Army Maintenance Cost is the amount of Production taken during every resource tic.
13.D. If Army Maintenance Cost is not paid, Unit goes rogue. You gain 50% of current market value in gold.
13.E. Militant Civic reduces Army Maintenance by 25%
13.F. Warmonger Civic allows you to maintain an army that is double the size of your population but Army Maintenance Costs are 200% if you go over your max size.
13.G. If you lose a technology required to have a military unit, Army Maintenance Cost is automatically applied.
14. Standing Armies
14.A. Players have the ability to assign unit to Defense, Offense, or Expeditionary or all three before any wars occur. By doing so, they are automatically drafted to the Battlefield as soon you are invaded or your Nation invades another.
14.B. If barbarian battles are fixed up like number twelve, Expeditionary means you send your units out to defeat barbarians.
15. Entering and Exiting Combat
15.A. Entering combat should not throw all your troops into battle. A little pop-up window should ask how many units you are sending or the UI for sending units into battle should add a number box near your unit counts when enter a Battlefield. (Inspired by DanielR)
15.B. Retreating from combat should follow the same concept of asking how many you want to retreat with large sums of units taking long to retreat. (Inspired by DanielR)
15.B.I. Troops left behind act as rearguard taking the majority of damage before the retreating group has retreated. (Means user should probably put them on Fortify.)
15.B.II. Damage rolls-over to retreating army with remaining damage multiplied by the retreating multiplier and dealt to the troops in the retreating group.
15.B.III. Retreating troops take 2x the damage of heroic'd troops
16. Upgrading Units
16.A. Units should not upgrade automatically when technologies are researched unless you are the MVP of the technology being researched.
16.B. Upgrading units should cost gold
16.B.II. When Unit trees expand units should have multiple options for upgrading to different units.
16.C. All upgraded units remain upgraded and within your army even if you lose tech or leave the nation.
17. Off Topic: Wonder building
17.A. Option to all nation to control your Great People and which Great People they can control.
17.B. King and Cultural Minister should be able to assign Great People.
17.B.I. Secondary Cultural Adviser should be assignable by the king to assign Great people to wonders in the absence of the Cultural Minister.
17.B.II.Players define which Great People they are willing to have the King and Cultural Minister assign.
...I got side tracked at some point and I'm sure there are a lot of other things that could be said.
Last edited by Telgard; 07-05-2011 at 03:49 AM.
I mostly agree. I dont like others controlling my great people, they might be used for passive instead of wonders. I do like King having more control of battlefield, and the ability for him to assign posts. I would also like Kings to be voted in or out.
Battlefields are a good idea. Maps are tricky. I would like to see larger nations have more battlefields It would also be nice to raise defenses, like Walls or Towers (archers get defense, range and damage boost maybe) to give some sort of defenders boost, especially in the pre-gunpowder stages when archers and walls had real power over the battlefield.
Perhaps if there were a secondary screen for King/ Ministers use.
So in battles you would have a storage area for troops you wish to keep out of the battle. A Rally Screen where you can put troops that you wish to include in the battle that the King/ Ministers can add or remove at will. Then finally the actual Battle screen where the fighting is.
This could simply be a check mark for each unit type or a counter to say how many you wish to make available.
This could also work for Great people. If you wish to keep some and make others available just check them so that the King/ Ministers have availablility.
Upgraded with Barbarian section.
Some nice suggestions you got there, the dev team should read this.
The declaration of war process is a mess right now. If my civ sees a weak state and declares war, that state should not have the better part of the day to turn itself into a powerhouse. As it is, if you're attacking a civ that's anywhere near competent, your chances of success are minimal. In addition, This has the consequence of ensuring that if the vote completes during the day, the battle will occur in the middle of the night. I suppose the delay could be shortened, but I think it would be even better if civs were notified that a rival is in the process of voting for war. This would allow them to beef up their defense in the meantime and potentially result in the vote failing when the agressor civ notices the defender suddenly has an army.
And I echo that the battles themselves are processed way too slowly.
Liking most of the suggestions here, even through I don't see the developers making such big changes in beta stage.
At least 8h between declaration of war to fight is needed because players sleep and work! Otherwise we are just going to see dozens of posts flying around with the title of "losing a war while you sleep..."
Then I suggest that that delay occur during the voting process, rather than after declaration. There is always someone sleeping/working somewhere in the world. We got clobbered last night after spending the entire day adding to our armies only to get our butts handed to us after the enemy came up with an obscene amount of troops just before the battle started around 2AM.
The delay should be after the declaration IMO, that way everybody can get a shot at placing troops even if not available for battle. With the current 10 hrs delay it's possible to do that. If you think what happened to you is bad, imagine how it'd be if the entire thing went on while you were in bed or working.
Originally Posted by mugwump67
That is a real concern, but it could be alleviated by allowing players to pre-assign troops to defense/offense duty during peacetime. There should be a delay prior to the battle, but an hour or two is sufficient if the defender was already aware they were at risk--they could also change the great wall wonder so that it increases the preparation delay. If there are more armies than slots, then either the computer could optimise them (though leaving them at "normal" stance), or allow the King/Military advisor/senior ranking player to manage the assignment. Its seems awfully silly that the time to prepare is almost guaranteed to result in a battle that you're not going to be able to watch if you want to sleep.
Originally Posted by AlibechM
Big problem is that there needs to be a consequence to not maintaining a standing defensive army, and there is none right now. I'm not grumpy because we lost and gave China an easy era victory, they played by the rules and won. But the rules are pretty arbitrary right now and resulting in situations that don't make sense.
As far as perhaps having to wake up in the middle of the night to defend yourself, there was a public domain networked internet game back in the 80's called empire(I think) that basically guaranteed such sneak attacks. Even back in the days of landlines, players shared phone #'s and email addys so they could mobilize, if necessary. One thing for certain, it definitely resulted in teamwork and cohesion. CivWorld doesn't need to be that hardcore, but there should be more immediacy to such a crucual strategic decision.
Agree with many of you points, there are some old threads here asking for pooled military and GPs, also asking for a way to transfer ministries and to give more power to the king. That will solve most of the problems. As it is right now tho, is unfair to be beaten only because you were not online for 1 hr, having the troops and resources to put a fight and even win.
Standing Armies idea added along with questionable Maintenance costs idea.
I think like a retreat you should be able to add troops to a battle 5 at a time. I have had many an occasion where we were fighting 2 armies plus there was a barbarian invasion. It would be nice to split my 100 infantry evenly according to the size of the battle rather than add them and then retreat them down.
I think that the whole timing issue could be solved with the idea that it is actually 10 hours until both sides add troops. The minute you add troops your king or battle minister can then select begin fight for your team and the other side can as well. And the fight starts.
The delayed battle is a curse and a blessing all at the same time.
I have not yet had a battle that didnt start at a very inconvenient time We actually would talk in game about starting the vote process so that the vote would finish at 9 pm and the battle at 6 am so we could participate before work. But many time we have been attacked and the battle would start at 3 am my time. I have to work and participate in my real life! Even if I lost I would rather start the battle at 10 pm right after they declared war than have to sleep through the whole battle.
I agree that in a battle both sides should take damage in an attack.
I also think the number counter for who is ahead defeats any strategy. We figured out in game that the higher number on the bar is the team that gets more attacks. The best way to get that up high enough was to put all your troops into heroic mode. There was a deep penalty for going to fortify. Instead the fortify should take away opposing troops heroic mode numbers So if they are 100 in heroic mode and I put mine in fortification they should drop down to 50. If your going to stick with the number bar over an actual battle calculation. Otherwise we found there ended up being no strategy, just put all your stuff in heroic mode and the highest score wins. If you arent the higher number might as well just retreat because your just going to loose. (proven repeatedly).
The battle rounds should at most be 30 seconds. A four or five hour blinking cards battle is boring.
Section 13 Edited and might actually give better support to small empires having the mini-wonder advantage. They would need a large population anyways in order to compete with bigger nations that have more players.
Should I put an example to illustrate the idea or is it pretty clear?