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Thread: Gods & Kings Super Sleuthing

  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveg700 View Post
    Portugal still rightfully deserves a place. And in fact, it's probably the last really strong candidate that jumps out at me.
    Well, yes personally I feel the same way, I like Portugal, but then other people want Poland, and it'll just keep going from there, Romania, Switzerland...... at the end of the day what constitutes a nation or culture been worthy of full civilization status rather than city-state, we have to draw the line somewhere (or rather the developers have to).

  2. #882
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    Oh by the way, a new achievement Access Denied seems to be a reference to the Great Firewall of China, so we might call it confirmed.

  3. #883
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    It is a reference, we have the XML files, and the achievement description says 'Build the Great Firewall Wonder'

  4. #884
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    That wonder is borderline insulting, but it is pretty hilarious.

  5. #885
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    Other info confirmed/clarified in the achievement XML

    The Dutch UU is indeed the Sea Begger not the Sea Dagger
    New Scenario Civs: Fall of Rome: Vandals; Into the Renaissance: Almohads

  6. #886
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    I'm hoping the civs are done well, I want to mod them into the base game

  7. #887
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    Gonna go ahead and make some likely wrong predictions.

    Sassanids will have a heavy cavalry UU since they pioneered that sort of thing before the Byzantines. Maybe something like cataphracts.

    Vandals will have a UU similar to the Dutch one, that allows them to pillage gold from cities. They became a piratical state after settling in North Africa. This is really a stretch, admittedly. I could see them having some kind of pillage bonus with their UU regardless of if it is a land or sea unit (it will likely be a land one).

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pouakai View Post
    I'm hoping the civs are done well, I want to mod them into the base game
    Yeah, I would love original drawn static leaderheads like they did for the Viking scenario instead of just re-using civ leaderheads.

  9. #889
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    It says nobody expects... for the Inquisitors, you all know what this calls for,

  10. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralY7 View Post
    Oh by the way, a new achievement Access Denied seems to be a reference to the Great Firewall Learning to read before posting is a good thing, so we might call it confirmed.
    fixed that for you.

  11. #891
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    Not a whole lotta new info on these here, except confirmation of Great Firewall. Also, I suppose, two Scenario-only Civs.

  12. #892
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    And the fighters and Sky Fortress in the scenario

  13. #893
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    I'm confused. Is Spain being included in GK, so that all those who purchase the expansion are able to play with the civ in standard games? Or are they just being included in the scenarios?

  14. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Gate of Mordor View Post
    I'm confused. Is Spain being included in GK, so that all those who purchase the expansion are able to play with the civ in standard games?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Gate of Mordor View Post
    Or are they just being included in the scenarios?
    No. Spain for everybody in G&K.

  15. #895
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    Spain for everyone! Wait, scratch that. Spain for no one. That can be just as much of a celebration, if you don't like Spain, true? You've bought a game like a good little consumer. But no Spain for you yet. Well, maybe a little.

  16. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by tejon View Post
    Spain for everyone!
    For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting.
    Last edited by JFD; 04-27-2012 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #897
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    Based on the achievements, the Celts are in the Into the Renaissance scenario which probably explains why they really pushed the Scottish angle instead of a more general Celtica. Though, I'm kinda disappointed the civ will still be called "Celts" in the scenario, as that's not really correct.

  18. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDjinn View Post
    fixed that for you.
    Did I miss something, what's with the "fix", enlighten me please....

  19. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    Based on the achievements, the Celts are in the Into the Renaissance scenario which probably explains why they really pushed the Scottish angle instead of a more general Celtica. Though, I'm kinda disappointed the civ will still be called "Celts" in the scenario, as that's not really correct.
    Presumably they'll own Scotland and Ireland, so calling them that does make sense. And that may simply be a placeholder name (doubt it, though).

  20. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    New Scenario Civs: Fall of Rome
    I can't wait to try out the new scenarios - especially the Fall of Rome one!

  21. #901
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    Is there any info on some new map types?

  22. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I can't wait to try out the new scenarios - especially the Fall of Rome one!
    I'm most excited for Smoky Skies. I mean, steampunk, and it seems (according to achievements) that they've added stuff to the game? Yes please!

    No that I find the Fall of Rome or Into the Renaissance boring. I'll likely play them all multiple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShowDown View Post
    Is there any info on some new map types?
    So far no. Other than the presumable Europe map.

  23. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Gate of Mordor View Post
    Presumably they'll own Scotland and Ireland, so calling them that does make sense. And that may simply be a placeholder name (doubt it, though).
    It's not really correct, though. Referring to the peoples of Ireland and Scotland as Celts is a a Romantic reconstruction related to growing ethnic nationalism in the United Kingdom in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The idea of even referring to those people as Celts did not even start till the early 18th century due to advances in Indo-European studies (and then was confined to early race theory similar to calling all white people Aryans). Medieval and Renaissance Irish and Scottish peoples would not have referred to themselves as Celts, and it's not really correct to name them as such in the time-frame of the scenario as it's an application of a modern identity label.

    Besides, it's also inconsistent with the other scenarios. The Sassanids in the Fall of Rome scenario are given their proper era name as opposed to simply being called Persians (which is more logical than extending Celts to medieval/Renaissance Scotland).

  24. #904
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    But the Byzantines called themselves Romans. And Inca was just the name of the ruling clan. So there is some loose precedent.

  25. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    It's not really correct, though. Referring to the peoples of Ireland and Scotland as Celts is a a Romantic reconstruction related to growing ethnic nationalism in the United Kingdom in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The idea of even referring to those people as Celts did not even start till the early 18th century due to advances in Indo-European studies (and then was confined to early race theory similar to calling all white people Aryans). Medieval and Renaissance Irish and Scottish peoples would not have referred to themselves as Celts, and it's not really correct to name them as such in the time-frame of the scenario as it's an application of a modern identity label.

    Besides, it's also inconsistent with the other scenarios. The Sassanids in the Fall of Rome scenario are given their proper era name as opposed to simply being called Persians (which is more logical than extending Celts to medieval/Renaissance Scotland).
    I know. I wouldn't call myself a Celt. But considering how little space the Celts with presumably have in this scenario, combining the two nations to give the Celts a fighting chance makes sense gameplay-wise.

  26. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Gate of Mordor View Post
    I know. I wouldn't call myself a Celt. But considering how little space the Celts with presumably have in this scenario, combining the two nations to give the Celts a fighting chance makes sense gameplay-wise.
    True, I was just hoping, if they had called them Scotland or Ireland, they probably would have put more effort into their scenario uniques and it would be easier to mod a new civ into the main game.

  27. #907
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    It would have made sense to me if they had just done what Rise of Nations (this is the 5,783rd time I've mentioned that game I think) did and added "Scotland/Ireland" into the scenario while giving them the same bonuses as the Celts.

  28. #908
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    What I posted was dialog from Sheogorath (Daedric Prince of Madness) in the Oblivion expansion, Shivering Isles. Except wherever I wrote "Spain," he said "cheese." (It was also "run a maze" and "rat" instead of "bought a game" and "consumer.")

    I'm not sure why JFD decided to ruin the joke by explaining it.

  29. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisjwmartin View Post
    But the Byzantines called themselves Romans. And Inca was just the name of the ruling clan. So there is some loose precedent.
    Exactly, there's all kinds of room. It's clear that the boundaries of where a civ starts or begins isn't just a bunch of technical nomenclature.

  30. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveg700 View Post
    Exactly, there's all kinds of room. It's clear that the boundaries of where a civ starts or begins isn't just a bunch of technical nomenclature.
    Yes, and technically it's correct to call the English, Germans because they're mostly descended from the Germanic tribes, or we can just rename three-quarters of the civs Indo-Europeans and it also will be technically correct. Doing either would be absolutely useless in terms of identifying them within the time-periods we play as them.

    Now, did the Renaissance English ever self-identify as Germans or Indo-Europeans? No. Did, Renaissance Scottish ever self-identify as Celts? No (Which marks a boundary where a civ starts and ends much more than nomenclature. Another identifier, Scottish wouldn't identify as Irish and vice-versa, however lumping them both in as Celts does just that).

    The Byzantine-Roman analogy is also not the best one as the two groups were contemporaneous (and also a continuation of the same once unified Empire), whereas the term Celt (in its actual historical not Romantic usage) refers to groups of people several centuries before the Scottish (as well as groups that were never unified in the same way as Rome-Byzantium).

    I have nothing against calling the Scots, Celts in the span represented by a normal Civilization game. However, I stand by my original statement that it's not really correct in the context of a Renaissance scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Gate of Mordor View Post
    But considering how little space the Celts with presumably have in this scenario, combining the two nations to give the Celts a fighting chance makes sense gameplay-wise.
    Is the only real argument in its favor, (though the name of the achievement is mostly centered around Scotland).
    Last edited by istry555; 04-27-2012 at 07:48 PM.

  31. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by tejon View Post
    What I posted was dialog from Sheogorath (Daedric Prince of Madness) in the Oblivion expansion, Shivering Isles. Except wherever I wrote "Spain," he said "cheese." (It was also "run a maze" and "rat" instead of "bought a game" and "consumer.")

    I'm not sure why JFD decided to ruin the joke by explaining it.
    Sorry. Fixed that for myself. Didn't realise you served the Madgod too.

    Quote Originally Posted by tejon View Post
    Spain for everyone!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFD View Post
    For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting.
    Any sleuthing as to Sweden's ingame colours yet?

  32. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFD View Post
    Any sleuthing as to Sweden's ingame colours yet?
    Has Sweden ever been represented other than with blue and gold? This is almost like asking whether England's got red in it.

  33. #913
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    Sorry, was just trying to stay on topic. I was just hoping there might have been some indication to the colours in the demo, or something. There's a specific shade of blue that I hope Sweden has.

  34. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFD View Post
    Sorry, was just trying to stay on topic. I was just hoping there might have been some indication to the colours in the demo, or something. There's a specific shade of blue that I hope Sweden has.
    No. All we saw with the Sweden reveal was an illustration of Gustav, and there's been no new info since, so we haven't had the chance for screenshots/demos containing Sweden yet. Hopefully we'll see the colors soon.

  35. #915
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    I haven't had the pleasures of seeing the PAX demo, as the rate at which I pay for internet at the moment won't allow it. That's only why I asked. But hopefully more on Sweden will be revealed next month.

  36. #916
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    Month and a half to go!

  37. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    Yes, and technically it's correct to call the English, Germans because they're mostly descended from the Germanic tribes, or we can just rename three-quarters of the civs Indo-Europeans and it also will be technically correct. Doing either would be absolutely useless in terms of identifying them within the time-periods we play as them.
    Ah, you underscore and excellent point: as in all things, pragmatism and simple horse-sense must temper any process. Each case should be judged on its own merits.

    In this case, the Irish and Scottish clearly, by virtue of pragmatism and horse-sense, have closer roots to the Celts than the English do to their long-discarded Germanic roots. So, it works.

    But yeah, there shouldn't be Celts in a renaissance scenario.

  38. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveg700 View Post
    Ah, you underscore and excellent point: as in all things, pragmatism and simple horse-sense must temper any process. Each case should be judged on its own merits.

    In this case, the Irish and Scottish clearly, by virtue of pragmatism and horse-sense, have closer roots to the Celts than the English do to their long-discarded Germanic roots. So, it works.

    But yeah, there shouldn't be Celts in a renaissance scenario.
    Well, they could have also just as easily gone with the Gaels/Gaelic as a name for the civ in the scenario; a term that refers specifically to the Celtic peoples and languages that inhabited Ireland/Scotland/Isle of Man. Of course, as with most things on this board, sometimes we get ahead of ourselves. Civ is anything but historically precise.

  39. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrtr View Post
    Month and a half to go!
    Huzzaaah!!

  40. #920
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    OMG I check here everyday to see if there is any new info... Cant Wait! No news on the devs answering the questions compiled by Greg?

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