Hope weapon production isnt 'accelerated'
Part of the fun of the original was that, after making a discovery, you would then redirect all your resources/manpower into producing that new weapon (ie- laser rifle). And then, since it took forever to actually make a number of them, you would sometimes be stuck going into combat with only one 'new' weapon and would have to decide who to give it to, how to deploy it, etc. And then having to 'produce' the ammo, meant that you might be only able to run one or two of the weapons for short periods of time. Created a very harrowing experience. The race against time where your production guys were trying to get reasonable weapons and ammo produced vs your next encounter.
Again the game came down to management of very limited resources. I certainly hope they keep this part of the game... and that 'difficulty' does not only affect lethality of the weapons, but also time required to research and produce stuff.
Hopefully you cannot just 'buy' unlimited weapons and ammo once you hit a particular research level.
I'm sure there will be management of resources, but I won't be surprised if there isn't more political bargaining...
I'll trade these laser rifles for scientists... etc. like their example cited...
I know there will be management of resources I just hope it isn't "Hit milestone A, now you can purchase unlimited quantities of weapon A and all its ammo immediately"
Actually I think it'll take longer... or inasmuch that it's a lot more limited because of resources. I believe the phrase "Herculean fabrication" comes up when describing the SHIV in the G.I. article.
Also, I think research might take longer. You need fragments apparently, and if you can get five fragments in one mission, I imagine you'd be lucky. The G.I. article says that they couldn't salvage the dead support guy's gear because he bought the farm in a particularly destructive fashion. So, maybe the reverse is true, too.
Well.. the game is going to be with 4 to 6 people per mission and classbased as well.
So you just researched a brand spanking new sniper rifle? Great, only your sniper class is really going to be effective with it. New grenade? Weell.. only the support and assault classes get to choose perks for increasing the amount of grenades they carry and the support guy probably goes with a medkit anyway. Blaster Launcher? Heavy only.
I don't think it will be very difficult to decide who to equip weapons on, but it might be far more difficult to decide what to research. The 'everybody can use' equipment may also be a more interesting choice if it really means that you can bring either a medikit or grenade(s) and real choices in armour beyond just what you can afford to make. Would be a refreshing change if there really were no best items in any category (something several mods to original game tried to address, I believe).
The Flying Suit from original game is an example of item I wouldn't like to see in terms of power as it was the best protection _and_ gave you the ability to fly. Given enough elerium you'd always want your entire squad outfitted in them, so the question was simple: "Can I afford to manufacture them?".
I still want the resources to be limited and to have to ask that question, but I also want to ask "Does my Sniper want this armour to get to places easily or do I want something that gives more protection?".
(I expect the grappling hook that comes with skeleton suit (?) is exactly such a decision so I'm feeling hopeful on this front)
Wasn't "Japan requests 10 laser rifles because you weren't effective enough in protecting them earlier" a scenario mentioned in some source? I'm guessing such requests won't last more than a month at most before you fail and that would give us a maximum manufacturing time for laser rifles at 3 days (though I suspect it will be less). Laser rifles are probably an easy thing to make in the grand scheme of things but it's never going to take you months to equip your entire team with some item.
You're also not going to have to track ammo usage in the same way as before and from what I understand you have unlimited ammo (but not an unlimited clip) on standard weapons --> Less manufacturing worries.
Weapons will only be destroyed on a mission if you're destroyed with excessive force (the example in one article was how the heavy used rocket launcher to destroy wall instead of alien, then sniper killed the alien and you didn't lose the artifact pieces).
edit: damn you ninjas, all replying while I was busy typing :P
Ack.. unlimited ammo ? Sigh.. That was another thing that was fun (again, management of resources theme).. Having a few grunts sacrifice some backpack space so that they could bring along an extra couple of rockets or an extra clip or two of incendiary rounds for the heavy. Or only being able to afford one clip of ammo for your new weapons. Otherwise, what is the point of bringing sidearms? (which I assume are not in the game)
Incidentally, I hope the game isn't strictly class based.. ie- Sniper only uses sniper stuff. Assault only uses assault stuff. Etc. That gets a little 'gamey'. I understand that the explosives guy can use a frag better than my medic, but why the hell can't the medic throw a grenade? And I certainly hope weapon loadouts are not limited by class type. Again, maybe I want my sniper to use an assault rifle on this mission. Yea, he's not great with it, but he might not be useful in a sniper role in this heavy building map. (why would I not use another assault guy instead? Because maybe the sniper is heavily leveled even in non-sniper skills ex-health and better than a basic assault grunt in this instance)
Again, I hope they don't force us to strictly adhere to the classes. In XCom, you could make your own classes, sort of, by changing loadouts. Yes they were better at one particular thing, but they could still be used in other ways if needed.
You don't have to worry so much about that. i remember seeing in one of the articles (don't remember which) that a medikit could be used by anyone, but the support class would just have advantages when using it.
Originally Posted by katscan
Same will probably apply to grenades and pretty likely to weapons as well.
Perfect.. that's what I want to hear. Anyone should be able to use anything (plus minus) but only certain classes would get bonuses with it. I would hate for this to turn into a Diablo clone where my Staff of Pink Butterflies+2 can only be used my a magic user whereas my Bow of Stupidity +1 can only be equipped by my faerie elf.
Weapons, outside the heaviest weapons at least, need to be usable by anyone simply because at first soldier level the class is not yet known. Armour has been confirmed to not be class limited.
So as far as I can tell, the only restriction is heavy weapons, but even that could be a miscommunication/misunderstanding?
When I mentioned unlimited ammo I guess I wasn't thinking straight. What I actually think is you've got unlimited ammo back at base but limited ammo along with you on a mission, strictly making the manufacturing/supply side of things simpler.
I remember reading about the officer training school and how one benefit you could gain from there would be more ammunition, but I can't remember if that was an official source or fan speculation.
Do we know if each weapon has to be manufactured or, once you have access to the technology, they just become 'available' ??
I guess in thinking this through, it isn't as much of an issue as I thought. Since they (unfortunately) limited the squad size to 4-6, then you are not going to experience the same desperation in trying to manufacture a dozen laser rifles to equip your guys.. since the most you are likely to need is 2-4 at most. Maybe 1 if its a specialized weapon like sniper rifle.
Honestly, I felt getting clips for new non-heavy stuff (plasma, heavy plasma, etc) to be really bland minutia. It was one thing I had to do. Honestly, I never got rid of a few laser rifles because if I went low on plasma it wasn't like I couldn't manage. However, ammo is unlimited for small arms (pistols, rifles, sniper rifles) it is not unlimited for heavy weapons like rocket launchers (maybe blaster launchers too, who knows). You can get upgrades to increase the ammo cap on it, but items and heavy ammo are finite. However, reloading can eat up an otherwise effective turn because it takes that action phase.
Originally Posted by katscan
Concerning weapon restrictions i kinda like the way they did it with ufo afterlight, where you can train your snipers and it opens up options for headshots, shots in the leg etc. or where you train up your heavies to be able to care/use miniguns.
Concerning Ammo unlimited ammo is just stupid, it adds to the terror in the mission when you go through your people and see ☺☺☺☺ ☺☺☺☺ ☺☺☺☺ low on ammo, hey out there is that dead squad member hes got a gun with ammo ok go for it.
But considering a 4 to 6 man squad size and the risk of having aliens that you have to make more holes in than a swiss cheese before they go down, probably not going to happen
reloading is another either annoying or challenging element, where you might end up at a critical time having to make decision whether to try firing of the last shots (and get the attention of an alien) or cover and reload and sit the round out playing it relatively safe.
Last edited by Elisha; 03-16-2012 at 05:49 PM.
Pretty sure the rocket launcher at least is Heavy-class-only. It'll be interesting to see if and which other weapons are class-locked. Personally I'm betting the sniper rifle will be, but I'm hoping things like the stunrod and stun launcher (or their equivalents) won't be.
Originally Posted by Spleenslitta
Weapon fragments is confirmed as a drop, and usage in research.
It could also be that they are used in manufacturing, hence a plasma rifle would need x, y and z components. Like a craft system, but im guessing here. It's would however make sense as a resource.
I dont think we will see quite the same manufact÷uring system as in the original.
1. You dont need to produce ammo.
2. You have a smaller squad.
3. You have a more unique set of soldiers. Hence 1-3 max of each weapon.
Speaking of weapon fragments a part of me will always be disappointed if I can research the heavy plasma from alien grenade fragments.
How are techs available for research? If it's all just fragments and a research tech tree you might be unable to skip researching some stuff.. or be able to research alien stuff you never even saw on the battlefield but you got the prerequisites and extra fragments?
Need more info.
All we know at this point is that weapon fragments drop on kills and that they are used as a research resource (Alien Materials, project cost: 5 weapon fragment, 6 days).
Originally Posted by Being
Everything else is speculation.
Here's to hoping there's not a super-abundance of alien/sci-fi tech, and that it takes time and work to get good gear.
So sick of WoW's tendency to just throw epics and candy rewards at players for just participating.
I would really like to see production of plasma weapons based on how many fragments you recover, with the ability to produce them whenever further down the line (perhaps when you have a better understanding of alien alloys, power sources etc). Early on a single plasma gun should be a considerable allocation of time/resources (like the shiv).
I hope they haven't removed all the equipment management and logistics. The planning and building of weapons and equipment was a big part of the old game.
I really agree with Oathbreaker here, I might just hunt Jake Solomon down and strangle him with a Celatid if they throw in tons of useless achievements (preferably exclude them altogether).
Also, I really hope they don't have any frekking Skinner Box mechanics (read WoW random drops), I want to damn earn all equipment I can make.
I think there would be some of it, but it would be on the bigger picture side of things. Help Japan get engineers. Invest in long term officer's academy bonuses or have immediate alien fighting power. I think they're thinking like that. I think your opportunities are based on what aliens are doing and how you've reacted. I think the fact that you can destroy alien artifacts by being particularly destructive is still a testament to how you get your stuff.
Originally Posted by heniv
I hope they don't have any useless research. Alien autopsies in the first game come to mind. I never found anything that helped.
Well just because the amount of soldiers you take on a mission is smaller, doesn't mean the pool of soldiers back at base is smaller. If the game is still 'lethal' (and I expect its not) then there should be a host of guys back at base in the medic bay. Hence the need for duplicate advanced weaponry.
Originally Posted by heniv
No, the maximum arms needed is only as big a the max squad size. On top of this you might have reserves and equipment for soldiers at base, that you proborly will have later when resources are sufficient.
Originally Posted by katscan
For wounded soldiers, that only means more available equipment. It's all down to how much you want to optimize and re-equip.
Ok.. true... Once they are wounded you have their equipment freed up.
Yeah, but if your guys bite it in a particularly destructive way they might not be able to ad their gear back into the pool. Apparently you can lose more gear in this game. Also I'm thinking it'll be a little more expensive to procure (Time consuming to manufacture) but that's conjecture.
Originally Posted by heniv
Yeah, but the G.I. article says that your equipment might not come home either. So it's not like you're just washing the blood off and stick it on a rather pale looking rookie.
But I heard your guys cannot pick up weapons dropped by other squadmates ? So are left over weapons automatically collected at the end of the mission or are those weapons lost?
I guess it depends on how bad the individual buys it.
Originally Posted by katscan