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Thread: overpower and underpowerd weapons

  1. #1

    overpower and underpowerd weapons

    okay biggest mistake in this game is weapons are unbalance in big way

    like why there is no nerf at eb/eg combo or penalty for using it "like -20 damage "
    ...

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    Why did they make the atomic bomb? Riddle me this RIDDLER?!?!?!?

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    Seemed it was intended to be used in such a way. If only plasmid usage had a 3-5 sec cool down it would be peachy, and plasmids like houdini took chunks of eve as costs for fixed time limits & use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhlyPinoy View Post
    Seemed it was intended to be used in such a way..
    Not exactly.

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    The sad part is, just a little minor tweaking and this game could have been made perfect for multiplayer. It's a shame they simply didn't support it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhlyPinoy View Post
    Seemed it was intended to be used in such a way. If only plasmid usage had a 3-5 sec cool down it would be peachy, and plasmids like houdini took chunks of eve as costs for fixed time limits & use.
    Well Houdini total usage is 4 seconds, if you have EVE Saver. That's well enough time for me to escape or manipulate my opponents.

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    Depends on the weapons and how they are used. Using the GL one on one is a bit excessive, however for crowd control it's not so bad. Same with the nail gun, it has the rev up time you have to get used to. I've seen people own others (and myself) with the pistol. Basically every weapon is overpowered in the right hands. Give the crossbow or elephant gun to someone who doesn't know how to use it then it's under-powered. In the right hands it's just deadly. Even some tonics like deadly machines can be over powering to someone who doesn't realize the turrets buffed up. I have be constantly killed by incinerate and machine gun more than head shots. Is that over powered? To me know all it means is someone knows what their doing.

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    Actually, all the weapons in this game are fairly under-powered as compared to any other fps, the op aspects of the game are the plasmids

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    I haven't played other fps games so I have no comparison. However I do believe your right. If they were no plasmid's I think bio would be pretty balanced for general play. A charged up Incinerate can kill someone if followed up by a regular incinerate shot. Without plasmids there would be no "Cheap" game play. It would all be skill. Then again more people would hate the grenade launcher more.

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    I agree. weapons in this game aren't too bad except for the screen shaking and smoke creatingness of the gl. Plasmids are kinda annoying i know sucks being eb's 50 times by 5 different people and not being able to fight back

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpuma View Post
    I agree. weapons in this game aren't too bad except for the screen shaking and smoke creatingness of the gl. Plasmids are kinda annoying i know sucks being eb's 50 times by 5 different people and not being able to fight back
    I've never had a problem with it personally, I'd rather be hit by 12 eb's than one single nade, or a 4:1 ratio of eb's to tk's, being that it would take 4 consecutive eb's to annoy me as much as one tk

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    Basically every weapon is overpowered in the right hands. Give the crossbow or elephant gun to someone who doesn't know how to use it then it's under-powered. In the right hands it's just deadly.
    I disagree with this. What you are talking about is skill level. Just because someone sucks with a weapon doesn't make it underpowered, and just because someone is good with it doesn't make it overpowered. Skill level is an entirely different argument from whether a weapon is overpowered or not.

    The true test of power is to give two people of equal skill two different weapons and see how the battle goes. For instance, you mentioned the pistol and the CB. Give a skilled player from the forum EB/CB with HH, and put him up against another skilled player from the forum and limit him to incinerate and the pistol. Do you truly believe the pistol would EVER win? I don't think you do. That is because the EB/CB combo is overpowered.

    Edit: Ah, Dmac is right. I'm talking plasmid plus weapon versus pure weapon. Interesting point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TxBuckeye View Post
    I disagree with this. What you are talking about is skill level. Just because someone sucks with a weapon doesn't make it underpowered, and just because someone is good with it doesn't make it overpowered. Skill level is an entirely different argument from whether a weapon is overpowered or not.

    The true test of power is to give two people of equal skill two different weapons and see how the battle goes. For instance, you mentioned the pistol and the CB. Give a skilled player from the forum EB/CB with HH, and put him up against another skilled player from the forum and limit him to incinerate and the pistol. Do you truly believe the pistol would EVER win? I don't think you do. That is because the EB/CB combo is overpowered.
    Although I agree the combo is op (which is why I love it so) but, and I'm not proud to say this, Gunner has, a multitude of times, beaten me while I was running the eb cb and he was using incinerate and pistol, granted I had terrible games but that doesn't change the fact that his skill with any and every gun and his playing style and smarts can easily make him as powerful as a power loadout itself. And I'm certainly not the best player in the world, but I'm no slouch

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    I don't know about that I've seen some skilled players take out other skilled players using the pistol, while the other person was using the eb/cb combo. An your right I'm thinking more about skill level. As for being completely overpowered I'd have to say nail gun and grenade launcher, even in unskilled hands these two weapons are just monsterous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    I don't know about that I've seen some skilled players take out other skilled players using the pistol, while the other person was using the eb/cb combo. An your right I'm thinking more about skill level. As for being completely overpowered I'd have to say nail gun and grenade launcher, even in unskilled hands these two weapons are just monsterous.
    By the way, looked for you and Slowdive today. Didn't run in to either of you. Bummer.

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    I haven't played yet. I mostly wait to around 9pm to play (I'm on the east coast U.S.) so when my friends are playing I'm up to around midnight with them. I'll have to keep an eye out for you, either I'll send an invite or you can send one. Maybe we'll be on the same team again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TxBuckeye View Post
    By the way, looked for you and Slowdive today. Didn't run in to either of you. Bummer.
    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    I haven't played yet. I mostly wait to around 9pm to play (I'm on the east coast U.S.) so when my friends are playing I'm up to around midnight with them. I'll have to keep an eye out for you, either I'll send an invite or you can send one. Maybe we'll be on the same team again.
    I'll be on tonight about 10PM Central/11 Eastern. Today we had nice weather so I was cleaning the garage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowdive View Post
    I'll be on tonight about 10PM Central/11 Eastern. Today we had nice weather so I was cleaning the garage.
    Ugh, you guys are on way to late for me, no wonder I never see you. I have to be up at 5:15 am CST M-F. So this old man is in bed by 9:30 Su-Th and even if I'm not, I'm not likely playing that late. Either after work (4 pm CST, rare during the week) or somewhere around 10 am - 3 pm on the weekends.

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    Perhaps at some point next Saturday we can meet up for a match. Just keep an eye out for me/us and well more than welcome you to join in a match. I've only played against you I think once. It was short lived.

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    I, unfortunately, have to agree with what Rd said when he claimed the game is balanced... Well, maybe not completely balanced, but there are effective counters for most of the playstyles (even if you get labeled as a spammer for using a particular counter-attack). Really, the only true ace in the deck is TK, because nothing will consistently counter that except for a pre-emptive TK strike (other than a very well timed EB shot).

    Having said that, considering the MP side of this game got zero support aside from fixing the rebirth glitch (they HAD to fix that...), it's pretty much out-of-the-box as a MP. Considering they got it as balanced as they did without several patches to nerf things is pretty admirable when compared with how often you get 0-day patches on SP games because they rush the thing to the market before making sure it functions as intended. Add in the whole plasmid aspect (multiple stun options, really???), I'm still amazed the game is as balanced as it is.

    Also, does anybody realize how much it costs a game publisher to release a patch over XBL or PSN? it's shockingly expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    Perhaps at some point next Saturday we can meet up for a match. Just keep an eye out for me/us and well more than welcome you to join in a match. I've only played against you I think once. It was short lived.
    I'll message you if I see you, believe me. As far as timing, it's just luck of the draw. I know I play at "off" times. Have to play when I can, you know?

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    BioShock Infinite won't be getting any MP support whatsoever because Ken Levine doesn't want to listen to his fans. Simple as that.

    All they needed to do was fix up the basics of this MP, change everything to fit in with Columbia, and then there you go. Fun MP that allows you to rack up a very large amount of kills based on skill, since Tonic effects would be balanced, but still prove to be a major part of gameplay.

    The Singe Player better be ☺☺☺☺ing amazing. Tch.

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    I'm not to worried about BS:I not having multiplayer, Borderlands 2 comes out this year, so that is all I'll need, even if it is not competitive multiplayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEpicFish View Post
    BioShock Infinite won't be getting any MP support whatsoever because Ken Levine doesn't want to listen to his fans. Simple as that.

    All they needed to do was fix up the basics of this MP, change everything to fit in with Columbia, and then there you go. Fun MP that allows you to rack up a very large amount of kills based on skill, since Tonic effects would be balanced, but still prove to be a major part of gameplay.

    The Singe Player better be ☺☺☺☺ing amazing. Tch.
    ummm.. IIRC, Ken's team didn't make BS2... I'd swear it was a different group that made the second game. and if I'm right, then it's not right to drag Ken's team through the mud based on the second game's MP. IIRC, the team that made the MP for BS2 was the team that merely ported BS1 from xbox to ps3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbrother1334 View Post
    ummm.. IIRC, Ken's team didn't make BS2... I'd swear it was a different group that made the second game. and if I'm right, then it's not right to drag Ken's team through the mud based on the second game's MP. IIRC, the team that made the MP for BS2 was the team that merely ported BS1 from xbox to ps3.
    They didn't, it was a different part of 2k (Marin) that made the core game, and Digital Extremes that made the multiplayer. The whole "problem" that Ken Levine believes is that they won't put the effort into making one if they can't make it unique.

    The way I see it is that they made it a slower-paced Unreal Tournament-styled (For the speed of kills and deaths that can be averted and gained through certain loadouts and skill) with objective-based game modes. The unique effects and situations that can be gained through environmental hazards and design, along with the plasmids themselves, add variation to how games can be played. I'd say that that would be pretty unique. Additions and fixes to such a multiplayer would remove everything unbalanced that has to do with such a formula.

    There's no point in denying the multiplayer things that other multiplayers do as well. Things are done because they work, which is why you'll see them everywhere. Killstreaks, if regulated and balanced, wouldn't detract at all from the game. There's only so much you could deviate from the formula too before it becomes boring and confusing.

    I respect Ken Levine for his creativity in BioShock 1, but he's deaf when it comes the fanbase. Sure, there may be other factors when it comes to the decisions that are done towards BioShock, such as time and money (Which are really big factors, actually), but I really hope that the things Ken is doing are for the sake of making a great title.

    To get back onto the topic if I haven't already helped you understand (AKA, TL;DR), the only problem I have with Ken Levine in regards to Multiplayer in BioShock: Infinite is his stubbornly high standards for it, that end up being pointless when the formula is already perfectly fine, should they fix it up and improve it. He only seems to be listening to the opinion of it from critics and those who only note the lag and connection issues that can ultimately be fixed, but weren't because Marin just didn't care about fixing their game, which I can't fault Ken's team for, to be fair.

  26. #26
    I belive is main problemis platform gaming console vs console vc pc
    too much cost to do updates all of them

    future we need "Steam Box" like device now companys don't have to make three same game.
    And simple tricks 2k would make this game back to live and they wuold make money for it too.

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    maybe we can all agree that one of the most annoying aspects of the multiplayer is the 7 second wait to respawn. and the times when shots wont register

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapnic View Post
    like why there is no nerf at eb/eg combo or penalty for using it "like -20 damage "
    ...
    If you think of it in terms of specialization, many of those who utilise the use of stuns seem to develop weaknesses in tracking moving targets. Soon, it will be their only conventional way for a guaranteed kill. Limited, inflexible as well as unoriginal.

    I was actually asked by another fellow in a text chat,
    "how do you get headshots without electrobolt candy?"
    I just shook my head and coarsly replied,
    "...Aim?".

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    I have done a few and I do mean Few no stun head shots. There is just something kind of satisfying about doing that. No stun, just aim and fire at the right time. I guess if I put in a constant effort I could get good at it, but I like messing around with different things to much. Never was one for monotony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    I have done a few and I do mean Few no stun head shots. There is just something kind of satisfying about doing that. No stun, just aim and fire at the right time. I guess if I put in a constant effort I could get good at it, but I like messing around with different things to much. Never was one for monotony.
    You have three loadouts. Just make one a no stun loadout and break it out on occasion, once you are warmed up and feeling good about your game that day. That's what I have done on my alt account.

    CB/Damage
    EG/Ammo capacity

    AD (to escape EB)
    WB (to shatter people that want to use rez)

    HH
    Whatever others you want

    The nice thing with the no stun loadout is that you don't use eve much, so Eve Saver isn't a must like with so many other loadouts. So you can use FF and LU, or machine hacking tonics, whatever you want. I personally think that the no stun loadout gives you about the most tonic variety of any loadout I have used simply because HH is the only required tonic.

    The key for me is, first off, I have to no stun HS. The weapon reload with the CB/Damage is slow, so if you miss, it will likely cost you. If you miss and need a second shot, you can switch to EG and still need a HS. And by not having ANY stun ability, I don't have to worry about getting upset and resorting to stunning plasmids. I simply don't give myself the opportunity.

    I think doing well with this loadout definitely will give you a sense of accomplishment if you pull it off. There really aren't that many no stunners out there. I mean, how many have you run in to in your daily play? Pulling it off will definitely make you feel good about your game, even if you only use it and pull it off on occasion.

    p.s. If you use boxspam with this, disregard everything I said about skill required or any experiencing any sense of accomplishment from it. At that point, you're just back to using an overpowered ROF loadout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonmicon View Post
    I have done a few and I do mean Few no stun head shots. There is just something kind of satisfying about doing that. No stun, just aim and fire at the right time. I guess if I put in a constant effort I could get good at it, but I like messing around with different things to much. Never was one for monotony.
    Ah L'amour... No-stuns never lose their luster when I pull them off. By far the most satisfying kills in BS2MP IMO. But... unlike you, it's not variety that keeps me using plasmid+weapon combos, it's the fact that before BS2 came out, BS1 was my go-to game for unwinding after work (well, that and L4D when I wanted a MP experience), so the "1-2 punch" was deeply seated in my rapture mindset even before this game was announced... What can I say, I have a really hard time breaking habits...

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    It's like the one thing you can't complain about, haha, other than how lag and connections affect things.

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    Maybe I just view it differently than everyone else, but in my opinion the player decides how good a loadout is. In the right hands a bad loadout can be turned into a power loadout and in the wrong hands a power loadout isn't going to be a power loadout.

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    depends on the user. I know quite a few people who could match against a EB CB user or Grenade Box Spammer with nothing but slugger or a pistol.... So it really is what the player is most confident with, what determines their best weapon. Each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses just like how each user has strengths or weaknesses

  35. #35
    @The epic fish - In the space of the same post you complain that Levine doesn't want to touch MP unless he can make a truly unique experience, and then you say BS2 mp is already unique(unique here meaning, like Unreal Tournament), and then you advocate being one more online experience lifting crap from cod because it works. And THEN you say how drifting from the formula would be 'boring and confusing'. So you want an online MP experience that is unique yet derivative that's also safe and formulaic? That about sum it up?

    Yeah, you carrying on dribbling over the keyboard online, I'll trust Ken Levine to do whatever the hell he see's fit. The man INVENTED Bioshock.

    OT: The crossbow is overpowered, as it is currently the only gun that actually has a glitch which is both commonly used and very strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladia View Post
    depends on the user. I know quite a few people who could match against a EB CB user or Grenade Box Spammer with nothing but slugger or a pistol.... So it really is what the player is most confident with, what determines their best weapon. Each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses just like how each user has strengths or weaknesses
    I like to the idea of being so well-rounded, you have no weaknesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    @The epic fish - In the space of the same post you complain that Levine doesn't want to touch MP unless he can make a truly unique experience, and then you say BS2 mp is already unique(unique here meaning, like Unreal Tournament), and then you advocate being one more online experience lifting crap from cod because it works. And THEN you say how drifting from the formula would be 'boring and confusing'. So you want an online MP experience that is unique yet derivative that's also safe and formulaic? That about sum it up?

    Yeah, you carrying on dribbling over the keyboard online, I'll trust Ken Levine to do whatever the hell he see's fit. The man INVENTED Bioshock.

    OT: The crossbow is overpowered, as it is currently the only gun that actually has a glitch which is both commonly used and very strong.
    You can't just ignore 'crap' that goes on in the more popular of FPS'es just because they're basically popular. It's also really impressive of you to pick out whatever words you'd like to make a summary of my opinion, and ignore the harder details and their reasoning. In the FPS genre, what you can do with the tools and features that make one up aren't very diverse, and you then start becoming a sub-genre, though I digress. What becomes boring and uninteresting would be going on the extremes of each factor to make it unique, which is what Ken Levine preaches about wanting, but never puts in the effort to truly do himself. Examples would be your generic shooter where interesting things to do as gameplay become the norm, everything is overpowered, and balance is ignored, to the point of the game then becoming a realistic FPS simulation, which can become confusing and uninteresting on the extreme that it is.

    Being unique and formulaic go hand in hand, because the formula's there and already works, and all you need to do is add your own personal spin on things that are possible within the realm of the perspective being a/two hands holding a weapon and shooting things.

    At least make some sort of counter argument if you're going to pick away at my post, otherwise I don't see the point of you posting at all if you're just going to stick to the idea of letting the developers do whatever they want and pretend to be intelligent. They're not Gods. They're not superior human beings. They're just people like us with the ability to influence what goes in and out of the games, while we can't. The only thing that's being considered and planned is creativity, which everyone can have. If anything's pointless dribble, it's your reply. Fool.

    On-Topic: GL is overpowered.
    Last edited by TheEpicFish; 03-22-2012 at 05:52 PM.

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    Doesn't the grenade launcher take 3 shots to kill, through splash damage and 2 shots if they are direct shots?
    I think I might me wrong.

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    Depends on how you run it. Normally your right, however if you've researched someone it takes two splash to kill them. If your running head hunter it can and does (if you connect) osk. Really depends on the loadout used. A charged incinerate and one nade is a kill. What makes the GL overpowered is what it does to groups. A good gl user can take out 2 or more people if their huddled in a group easy or if there is oil near them. However it's a slow weapon. Long reload and firing, even with rate of fire or velocity boost. It's a defender/defensive weapon. Not a good idea to run in with guns blazing with it.

    When I get to 500 hours (300 hrs using only GL) I may make a mini user guide to the weapon, pro's and con's etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Downfall View Post
    Doesn't the grenade launcher take 3 shots to kill, through splash damage and 2 shots if they are direct shots?
    I think I might me wrong.
    Two shots, and only one needs to be a direct/close hit. If the second splashes a few feet away it'll still kill.

    Though the amount needed (Effort/damage/etc.) is dependent on other factors like tonics and plasmids.

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