Different types of shots
So I re-watched the demo from Pax and found something interesting (hope it wasn't posted before.)
When they showed of the antfarm you can read the description of one ability called Double-Tap:
Allows both actions to be used for Standard Shot, Precision Shot or Disabling Shot provided no moves where made. 1 turn cooldown.
So as long as they didn't change that it seems different shot types are in. Thank god!
But here is a question for you. There are no time units involved, which is usually the tradeoff between a precise shot and a standard shot. So how are they balanced now? Why not always take precise shots?
Standard shot=normal %hit, %crit, normal dmg?
Precision shot=increased %hit, ??? but then lower dmg lower crit?? That doesn't make sense
Disabling shot=decreased %hit but enemy takes status effect
Not sure how they will balance
Yeah I think Precision shot will be ONE shot with a high chance of hitting and standard will be a burst of shots potentially dealing more damage.
Originally Posted by katscan
Disabling shots might be used to capture aliens, although that seems weird.
Standard shot = standard shoot action.
Precision shot = sniper perk, high hit chance, cooldown
Disabling shot = another sniper perk, at least same hit chance as standard, debuffs (stuns?), cooldown.
I imagine the sniper rifle isn't a burst fire weapon at any point and that precision/disabling shot require the use of a sniper rifle style weapon, making the perks strictly better than the standard shoot action while the standard action isn't made completely obsolete via the cooldowns on the perks.
Double Tap as a perk looked to be at the very end of the perk "tree", so presumably those two shot types are somewhere before it. Maybe as an either/or choice.
I was under the impression that these were all within the same class - ie- support class can take a precise shot with assault rifle. That would make sense based on the fact that differing shot types were in the original game.
Not that weird, really.
Originally Posted by Alucardex
Even if there were stun rods / tasers of some sort, it used to be a major pain to not kill aliens while they were shooting at you.
With the cover system and all, you'd pretty much have to run up to them through open terrain, catching a faceful of plasma bolts in the process.
Now if you can neutralise an alien with precise weapon fire, then run up to it to cuff and patch it up (so it doesn't run out of whatever passes for blood), that's a far more believeable approach.
No doubt it will be more difficult to disable an alien like that (less damage per shot - whatever) but it would be a lot less awkward and gamey.
In american movies, the SWAT snipers always shoot to kill but that's not all they can do. =P
I forget.. in the original, wasn't it relatively rare to come out of a firefight with a live alien unless you were specifically using stun weapons? I believe it happened, but was rare. Usually they would end up just a stain of plasma on the sidewalk.
The most convincing argument to me for why different shot types aren't available (outside perks) for a weapon is the move-action system. In the original the TU cost (tried to) balanced the system but in the new system the most you can have is two variable lengths of time to shoot a weapon: full or half turn. Snap Shot as a perk has already been confirmed to be in the Sniper arsenal as well, and Double Tap essentially is halving standard/precise/disabling shot length (but only if you don't move).
We've also not seen any indication of fire modes in the demo footage. If it is there, it's well hidden.
You could never capture live aliens by regular weapons.. unless they had received stun damage, usually from smoke within their crashed ufo. But the stun damage from smoke was quite a small amount so the window of damage you can deal to not kill them while knocking them unconscious was pretty small. And of course they could wake up later for extra trouble.
Originally Posted by katscan
They could still easily implement different shot types with the move-action system by modifying the parameters of %to hit, %dmg, %crit.
All they would need to do to implement is to add an additional icon that 'unlocks' when you obtain that 'perk'.. (This is starting to sound like WoW more and more).. But you are right, I don't see any definitive evidence after carefully studying every pixel of the latest screenshots.
Actually, I take that back. Maybe they are implemented? Take a look at screenshots 4 and 5 from this series.. Same weapon, same fight, but the 'target' indicator is different in both cases (bottom left).. perhaps indicating different shot types?
nm.. Im wrong.. I was looking at the 'unit identification' icon, designating alien vs nothing.
If stunned aliens are in, I hope they have the good sense to pick up a weapon when they revive. In the original, I'm pretty sure they don't!
I think you can not pick up anything in the new one. So I guess everyone just keeps their weapons.
Originally Posted by SectoidSquisher
Actually, now I look at the screenies, it appears they're actually a part of some of the aliens - the Muton's gun for example seems to be an extension of its arm. That's not a bad idea - and it's definitely a good way to justify not being able to pick weapons up.
I loved when I had a gun researched but not the ammo and was able to pick up a dropped weapon and even out the fight.
I believe it was in the GI article awhile back, but for snipers their starting shot was an "aimed shot" that required them to have not moved that turn to shoot. The article mentioned how when they leveled up at some point they would get the option to choose between "snap shot" (ability to move then fire, but not as accurate as an aimed shot), or squad sight (the sniper can shoot at any alien a squadmate can see so long as they have LOS on the alien).
So I expect the various shots to work like that. And it would be easy enough for them to put in Snap/Auto Shot for various weapons much like in the original. I mean the cost dif in TUs between snap/auto wasn't very large so as a perk I don't see it being a balance issue for certain classes to choose between lower accuracy and multiple shots, a higher accuracy single shot, or an even higher accuracy single shot if they don't move that turn.
Although a "disabling" shot sounds stupid to me unless it's using less-lethal ammo (things like bean bags, or the actual stun bombs/grenades of the previous XCOM games). Things like bean bags shouldn't really have an effect against aliens in armor (so mutons, cyberdiscs, sectopods, any new highly armored targets), though things like the cattle-prod or stun gas (which is what I've always imagined the stun bomb was loaded with) would still be effective against armor. But using ammo that is designed to kill to simply "incapacitate" the target is just retarded imo.
I believe that a lot of police officers would disagree with that. Well, at least those that aren't Harry Callahan.
Originally Posted by Aknazer
A police officer doesn't try to take "precision" shots to incapicitate someone. They typically shoot center mass and are trying to "stop" (aka kill) the threat. If it incapicitates them then thats great, but they aren't specifically aiming to do so. And while I won't go into all the details, cops actually have a pretty bad accuracy rate in a firefight and have a 10%+ rate of injuring an innocent bystander when cops start shooting so I wouldn't trust any cop that says they are shooting to "incapicitate" their target (and if they do try to take a shot like that then they are adding to the issue of missed shots and wounded innocents). Hell, even the SEAL team that took out Bin Laden didn't try for any fancy "incapicitate" shots and they are far better trained than the police.
Originally Posted by Gazz
Then there's the ammo that police use. They are typically going to be using some type of "armor piercing" or a hollow point and not FMJ. The "armor piercing" isn't really armor piercing as the public thinks of the word, but it is designed with a heavier core in order to punch through car glass or a car door and still reach the intended target, while hollow points (also known as a "cop killer" which is just as retarded because a cop with a vest stands a far better chance of surviving a JHP round than an FMJ round) are specifically designed to mushroom once hitting something (which is why a cop with a vest is more likely to survive a JHP round as it shrooms and the vest stops it easier than a FMJ round). This means that a JHP round is going to mushroom and create a larger wound cavity once it hit target, making it more likely to kill them (or incapicitate due to a loss of blood, followed by death), and the "armor piercing" is more likely to kill them because the core is more likely to be able to punch through hard objects (doors, glass, etc) and still hit the bad guy with enough force to kill them.
Now our military, we use FMJ rounds not because they are effective at killing people (which compared to JHPs, EFMJs, etc they aren't as effective), but because of a treaty called the "Hague Convention" that limits the type of ammo that may be used on the battlefield.
And I'm not saying this to rag on police. But "shoot to stop the threat" is what I've had multiple police say, is what is taught in various CCW courses, and is what I'm effectively taught in the military. So to say that cops don't shoot to stop/kill and instead shoot to incapicitate goes against everything I've been taught and is generally just a bad idea (since you don't know if that "incap" shot will actually stop the threat or not; especially if the person ends up being on drugs or is fat or something). And "shoot to stop the threat" is used for legal reasons should you end up going to court for a shooting ("shoot to kill" sounds more aggressive while "shoot to stop the threat" sounds more defensive in nature, and that defensive bit can be very important if the shooting goes to court as sounding agressive/malicious can get you convicted even if you were just defending yourself).
No, I don't think that Aimed, Auto and Snap shot mechnic is in either.
They seem to be replaced with the Ability system, hence the other type of sniper shots are from the Perk tree (Double Tap being the top tier).
Too bad. Hope abilities come in every level at least, because it would be boring to use the normal shots all the time.
Originally Posted by heniv