Fly on the Wall
Ever wanted to be a fly on the wall for a Nazgul guild game?
Well I was granted the privilege of reading their chat as well as the chat for team Chaos in the recent guild game.
Drumbeats in the dark
Before I continue, let me just say, that Nazgul team chat is more of an auditory experience than a visual one. I didn’t read the Nazgul chat so much as I listened to it. I had my headphones on at work and would call up the chats whenever they beeped.
Chaos added me first, and that worked out well. I would tune in at every beep, scan for something interesting, and then return to what I was doing. That all changed when team Nazgul added me to their chat. I spent the next 22 hours listening to the almost constant rhythm of
Those who have attended the introduction to being a Nazgul classes that many of us have been invited to attend are all familiar with this cadence and what it means:
1) MAZE XX
Nazgul domination can be tied back to that simple rhythm. It never ended. Ceaseless and omnipresent, every Chaos conversation I read had that drumbeat pounding away in the background. Every time I stepped away, I would return to hear the drumbeat continuing.
I chose the Lord of the Rings analogy for the foreboding the drumbeats bring with them and their obvious imagery when talking Nazgul, but the signal from space in the movie Contact is better imagery because of its relentless mathematical precision.
Can you feel the Rhythm of the beat?
I also don’t want to make it sound like the process is mindless or robotic. The rhythm is very seductive and appealing. It is a siren’s song. One of the reasons the Nazgul are so dominant is that top players slide into the rhythm like a bare hand into a warm glove on a cold Moscow night. You don’t need to convince, you don’t need to ask, you don’t need to remind folks… you just say it, and everybody comes. It is easy.
It is so responsive; it is like having the wheel of a Ferrari in your hands without any speed limit or traffic to get in your way. Heck, the Ferrari even comes with a Nazgul GPS so you don’t have to worry about direction. The Nazgul GPS does change the cadence occasionally.
BEEP…BeepBeepBeepBeepBeepBeep.beep..STOP… BeepBeepBeep.BeepBeepBeep….beep…BeepBeepBeepBeep.G O.BEEPBEEPBEEPbeepbeepbeep…
This occurs whenever the Nazgul are about to research a tech. It represents …
1) The Nazgul GPS asking for tech totals
2) All players respond instantly
3) The Nazgul GPS assigns the folks who will research to the tech
4) Everybody saves moves and says when safe
5) They research tech…
6) The extra 5 moves finish off another maze for multiple folks at once
Team Chaos observed all the Nazgul in Feudalism at one point and assumed it meant the Nazgul were interested in Feudalism. In truth it meant the Nazgul were about to put their foot on the gas via a different tech.
Many invited to participate in the creation of this music leave because the music itself is not enough. A true Nazgul does not play to win. A true Nazgul does not play to be on the winning team. A true Nazgul plays to create this music and it is the creation of this music that sustains them, nothing more.
Those able to hear it are forever drawn to its beauty. I fully admit to having fallen under its sway. That is not to say, I will not try to beat it. I, like the Nazgul, feel that the only way to preserve it is to challenge it, otherwise jealousy and personal insecurities will serve to destroy it.
I believe the temptress’s song ensnared more than one player this game. I will leave it to the ensared to confirm or deny my suspicion.
Have this music playing in the background throughout the story.
Last edited by ShuShu62; 04-26-2012 at 08:31 AM.
I received 3 separate invitations to join the Guild Game and watch. The game has been under way for roughly 1 hour. Team Chaos has just invaded Team Nazgul in what can only be said to be a necessity. If you want to fight a battle in a guild game, you need to fight them fast because the 20 hour clock will get in the way.
There is no need to worry about clock slippage in a guild game; there will be little green lights on all night (or day… given the rotating planet we live on). There is, however, a worry that all eras… or enough eras, at least, will be gone before the first shot is fired.
Too much consideration is given to the military might of Ursa Major and Ursa Minor and not enough consideration given to the fact that the game can be won without a single military unit ever being built. That was not the case in this game, as that first battle had the ‘potential’ to decide the winner of the game but all subsequent battles scheduled a mere couple hours later, were irrelevant.
It is also important to note, that both teams were posting maze links in chat. While both teams posted the occasional mine link, neither team posted a library of stashed maze moves while I was watching. I confirmed with both teams that they had stored up some maze links. The Nazgul were very forthcoming when asked, as they always are, and averaged about 10 maze links per player coming into the game. I gather the newer members brought more with them… to make a good impression.
Even if the maze links gave them a jump start at the beginning of the game, it played no role what so ever by the time I tuned in.
The Nazgul already had a 7 tech lead on team Chaos when I joined.
Team Chaos needs to open borders for a new teammate. Conversation is coordinating the votes.
At the same time the Nazgul conversation reads as…
1) I only have a general.
4) En next
Team Chaos has let their team member in. It is at this point that chaos notices that team Nazgul locked the Library of Alexandria by researching University.
Conversation seems a trivial matter but this example illustrates how simple things can be back breaking. Locked wonders are crucial in a Guild game as it will be 20 hours before you can redistribute them. That means that if one team is monopolizing the tech tree, everyone else needs to prevent them from getting the wonders or there won’t be any eras left when the clock runs out.
Interestingly, the Library of Alexandria was far less important to team Nazgul than it was to team Chaos. Chaos was harvesting for their tech. Nazgul was not. (that would come later). It appears team Mongo competed for two production wonder locks (Pyramids and Hanging Gardens), but otherwise, the entire field yielded all locked wonders to team Nazgul… not Kooel.
I have wondered here, why I have had more success on my own, than when playing as an individual. Someone suggested that needing to explain things is a burden, but I have had very strong teammates and yet run across the same challenges. It is that the conversation, itself, can be distracting.
I don’t mean to imply that you need to be silent to win, or that joking around will prevent you from winning. It is often said that you need to communicate to win, which you do. But it is possible to communicate TOO MUCH as well.
The need to request every green light to open borders over the span of 30 minutes is an overwhelming burden in a guild game.
Last edited by ShuShu62; 04-26-2012 at 10:55 AM.
Dateline 4:30 pm
Team Chaos reaches Monarchy. I really like team Chaos’s plan. But it is not fully thought out. The plan is to beeline to the most efficient early troops and then go all medieval on the Nazgul. I am a big fan of the revenge of the spearman and, as I wrote in the adventures of Peregrine Took, it is not a strategy the Nazgul feel threatened by (unless they have a teammate using it).
But if it is to work, you need to completely buy into the concept.
1) You need to prevent Call-to-Arms
2) You need the weather gauge
3) You need Leonardo’s workshop
4) You need Himeji’s castle
5) You need to maximize production
Preventing call to arms just means you need a king or cultural minister online with the required great people. One batch is probably sufficient as the Nazgul are not likely to cycle wonders on you. But you should have enough greats for a second to buy time to collect the greats for a third if needed.
Chaos has a weather specialist that can go head to head with the Weather Goddess, and comparing their strategies, my money is on Chaos winning the weather.
Leonardo is a challenge. The Nazgul will almost certainly lock it before the battle. Strangely, this can be good news if the Nazgul lock it to you. Team Mongo proved that can be done. Team Nazgul’s own music can tell you when it is coming. You just need to make sure they are not expecting it so that they Build/research without skipping a beat. My best guess would be…
1) Ensure someone else has Leonardo
2) Have Leonardo prefilled
3) Fill Leonardo as soon as Nazgul build it
4) Hope the lag lets them lock it before they are notified that you stole it
The same holds true for Himeji.
Maximizing production however… aye, there-in lies the rub….
Team Nazgul maximizes efficiency through technology and mini game. The mini-game is easy (not for me) to reproduce. Technology is not.
Reproduce the minigame bonus by having your minigame specialist rack up a 490. Make sure to stop below 500, or you will lose. The decay from a 500 minigame bonus is painful and inexorable. You will need multiple shots to win, and that means you need momentum working for you, not against you. Needless to say, your minigame specialist needs to own all of the civilization’s troops.
Technology is a double edged sword. One side is sharper than the other, to be sure, but the dull side (pun intended) is not without teeth.
Blah, blah, blah SDI, blah, blah, blah.
SDI is the 8 ton gorilla in the room. How can you out produce somebody who gets twice the units for the same production as you?
Blah, blah, blah RAIN, blah, blah.
Yes folks, tanks verses knights on a marshy swamp soaked with rain. Anybody expect to see that? I didn’t think so. You are just one civ, Nazgul isn’t going to go all tank just to beat you, especially since they don’t think your 15th century tech is a threat to their 21st century army. The next best counter is modern fighters… which they might not reach in 20 hours. That is break even at 16 per100 hammers spent (rain+Leonardo) for those MAAs
Blah, blah, blah Better Units, blah, blah, blah.
What better units? I am attacking. There are no better units than Leonardo’s Rusted Tin Cans… oh yeh, I forgot, the Nazgul are going to Tank up, to beat me. Do I really have to say Blah, blah blah RAIN again?
But WAIT… there is more. The Nazgul beefed up during the atomic age. Any guesses why? Correct… because they didn’t have SDI in the Industrial age. You aren’t waiting for SDI are you? You are going to get all of your max prod civbuck fueled harvests during the industrial age, aren’t you? Well shoot, your soot covered dummy’s from the 19th century coal mines are actually MORE efficient than those snooty white smocked geeks from the 20th century (just don’t breathe the air or drink the water).
And… if you order now… you can also get all of those extra harvests you did not spend on researching the latest technology. In fact, by the time you researched the techs they were so cheap, we’re practically GIVING the stuff away!
It all works… in theory at least… We will never know about practice because team Chaos was still hell bent on technology… just much less of it.
Dateline 5:00 pm
Team Nazgul has hit a rough set of mazes. They now get a couple mined links and are discussing which maze is least horrid.
Team Chaos has a player log in and cash 17 civbucks for 75 harvests. 75 harvests seem like a great bargain. But Team Chaos is spending them on tech research with 1K mazes and no University, while team Nazgul is saving them to harvest hammers during the atomic age.
The Professor came up in team Chaos chat. Treebeard suggested counting to 10 to spread the harvests around. I found that interesting in two ways. First, why did he ask for 10 instead of 13? A fellow chaos member asked him the same thing. Treebeard said 13 didn’t work for him, which I could not argue with, because 13 never worked for me either. Treebeard said 10 worked for him.
Ents are renowned for their patience, so it might just be possible that Ents count 10 seconds in the same amount of time it takes a professor to count to 13. I will admit to trying to use my computer’s clock to count to 13, but it was all just too much work, and too little (read--- no) result.
Good news for the Professor is that at least three people read and value his opinions; bad news is that none of them accept this particular opinion. :P
The second question was…. Why would you want to spread the harvests around? Wouldn’t it be best if all 75 harvests went to Treebeard?... errr make that 68 harvests because someone stole the interior ministry before all 75 harvests were claimed.
Treebeard comments that team chaos is only 5 techs behind team Nazgul. 75 err 68 tech harvests will do that for you when the Nazgul are bottlenecked by horrible mazes.
Dateline 5:21 pm
Team Chaos chat: Darn, they got another tech.
The Nazgul logjam has just broken. They have just doubled the maze values from 1K to 2K. They will now begin to cash in their tech harvests, because they are harvesting for maze moves, not for tech… but, by the way… they have the Library of Alexandria and shiny universities to use for their tech harvests. Their harvests will net almost twice what team chaos’s harvests netted, and that’s before taking the doubled values of the mazes into account.
Before team Nazgul move into their luxurious new 2K mazes, they all have to finish off their saved moves. Team chaos happened to tune in to see where team Nazgul was going next.
I saw on Nazgul chat: Maze Fd, Me Next, Me Next, Me Next, Me Next, in, in ,in , Done, done, done, done
Team Chaos saw: Tech totals screaming upward in Feudalism as if team Nazgul was hot for it.
I saw on Chaos chat: ‘Nazgul are going for Feudalism, let’s make them think we are going for it’
Team Nazgul saw: Chaos moving into Feudalism.
I saw on Nazgul chat: Chaos is going for Feudalism… that’s nice… Maze En,in,in….
Dateline 5:36 pm
Nazgul chat determines that Moscow sleeps while America drinks cocktails
Dateline 5:37 pm
Nazgul Chat declares the game over
Dateline 5:38 pm
Usra Minor asks… who harvests first?
Dateline 5:39 pm
Ursa Major and Ursa Minor
The secret to Nazgul success lies in understanding why Ursa Minor is called Ursa Minor when he is really Ursa Major. I said you had to understand, I didn’t say it was going to be easy.
The Weather Goddess chastised me for getting the two bears mixed up in Peregrine’s story. Ursa Minor has the most fame in civWorld. Ursa Minor, as is clear from Nazgul chat, is ‘the oldest’ Nazgul.… the real leader.
Sure, the Nazgul GPS is guiding the process. But when the Nazgul aren’t busy beeping out mazes, they occasionally ask a question or make a suggestion. Suggestions usually get a response of Da… just kidding… it would be in Cyrillic. And other questions get a quick and immediate answer. Just like the Maze Wizard in Kicking the Bees nest, Ursa Minor is a royalty cricket of the first order (as too, is Treebeard… but his ents aren’t as nimble as Ursa Minor’s Nazgul)
There are no protracted conversations, nor is there much need. But there is infinite trust that a single statement will be correctly interpreted and ruled upon.
This is the mark of a truly gifted leader. He does not lead by rank, he leads by respect. He is confident in his own abilities, and so revels in letting his teammates shine. He has the Nazgul GPS driving the engine, and the Weather Goddess recruiting new talent. He relies on Ursa major to the point where the two are indistinguishable to the outside world.
Everybody said Phil Jackson was nothing special when he coached the Bulls. Anybody could win with Jordan and Pippen was the common phrase even though nobody else ever did. In fact, they still said it when he won with Shaq and Kobe even though many had tried and failed with that duo. By the time he was winning with Kobe and well… people who played with Kobe… he was being recognized as the greatest coach of all time.
Ursa Minor is our game’s Phil Jackson. Yes, he has the talent, but it is his leadership that sets the stage for his talent to perform, and perform they do. Folks who are convinced the Nazgul accomplish what they have by any other means than a high code of conduct and an esprit de corp to rival any team anywhere, need only look in the mirror for an explanation as to why they cannot match the Nazgul.
For the rest of us… I have only one thing to say.
Dateline 5:53 pm
2K mazes mean there are more market transfers occurring.
I have been told by many folks that you can’t do market transfers in Guild Games. I anxiously watch chaos team chat for them to notice the transfers…
I check Nazgul chat for indications of slippage
This trend continued throughout the game. Transfers would occasionally be interdicted, but rarely.
Team Nazgul does gain an advantage here as they can freely transfer the shiny toys that the techs only they possess grant them, but that protection was rarely needed.
Dateline 6:00 pm
I am so addicted to civWorld that I can’t even pull myself away even when I am just watching...
I head home and actually don’t log back in until the following day.
Dateline 9:00 am
I tuned back in to hear the music continuing on its merry way for team Nazgul. Team Nazgul is on pace to get SDI for the battle while Team Chaos has made little progress.
Oh look! Team Nazgul has been infiltrated not once but TWICE.
Three times actually but the third player just happened to hitch a ride to a top 10 finish in a guild game by researching Irrigation for the entire game. One of the apprentices Nazgul’s kept me posted on his activity… ‘He’s researching Irrigation’, then a few hours later...’He’s researching Irrigation’ … then a few hours later… well, you get the point.
Oh, but these are happy times.
Two infiltrators and a looming battle portend interesting events to come. I am especially optimistic since one of the infiltrators is someone who has been asking me for suggestions on how to become a better Nazgul Hunter. Infiltration was, and is, still my top suggestion… but more on that later.
I headed off to work with a couple bags of popcorn preparing for the show.
Dateline 10:00 am
Chaos is making a little noise of its own as the battle is approaching.
Apparently, one of the infiltrators is planning to steal SDI and distribute it to all competitors.
Interestingly, the Chaos chat is about the defection, not about how to leverage it. The Nazgul Hunter then withdraws herself from the Chaos chat and joins the Nazgul drumbeat.
Chaos conversation instantly shifts to surprise at the Nazgul Hunter going Nazgul. I am not surprised for reasons already mentioned.
It is funny, Nazgul are an exclusive group, but not because they are exclusionary. They run a very open civ and a very open process. My posts on this forum are an example of just how willing they are to share all of their secrets. The Weather Goddess called me the ultimate spy lurking inside Nazgul borders recently.
They have no fear of playing with an open book. They have no need for subterfuge. They really don’t even need closed borders. What makes them exclusionary is that it takes skill to appreciate what they do. So although they are very welcoming, only a few stay. The Nazgul Hunter is a perfect example.
The Nazgul Hunter infected them to learn how to hunt Nazgul. The Nazgul knew it, and yet opened communications just as they have freely communicated with me despite knowing everything I learned would end up here. And just like me, that openness to ‘enemies’ becomes their greatest weapon. They recruit the most skilled and motivated the game has to offer simply by inviting them to come beat them from the inside.
It is laughable to read all the public accusations made by folks who should know better. Accusing a team as watched as the Nazgul of cheating and underhanded tricks is like saying the government covered up the fact that Herbert Hoover paid space aliens in the mafia to assassinate Kennedy.
The Nazgul Hunter thought she was hunting Nazgul only to discover too late, that the Nazgul were hunting her. Like me, she is remaining true to her guild, but I have warned her… once the Weather Goddess decides that she likes you, good things start happening for you….
Well shoot, now I need to look elsewhere for my popcorn chewing entertainment.
The Oracle of Delphi
The conversation about the Nazgul Hunter died down and attention shifted to the battle. Consensus was that even with an SDI gifting, that Chaos would field their troops, confirm that they were outmatched, and then prepare for their second battle.
Treebeard started discussing all the trades and pacts of cooperation he had tried to negotiate. Diplomacy is another underutilized aspect of the game that is built in and yet not fully appreciated other than the occasional ‘let’s all attack at once’ strategy.
Team Nazgul and I both share the belief that relegating everyone to playing for second place is a bad thing. They want to be challenged, and as they are convinced they could not be challenged via infiltration… well… the following phrase concerning diplomacy showed up on Chaos team Chat:
‘If I were team Chaos, I would be bribing team Fenris with gold to open the gates right about now’
I had only planned to offer up one Oracular riddle. But Treebeard was wondering why I thought opening closed borders was valuable, much less feasible. So I chose Spock for the Oracle’s second council.
‘Their tactics are sound, but they are… two dimensional’
Well, okay, team chaos was getting a pretty good feeling of what it must have been like for the Greeks to trek all the way to Delphi only to be greeted by riddles. I was getting a pretty good feeling that team Chaos was beginning to think the Oracle of Delphi was on drugs.
I spelled it out. Fenris could take over team Nazgul and retreat the troops. I had actually expected to see the Nazgul Hunter do it until she went native. A period of conversation ensued full of explanations about why it would be impossible… then okay possible but impossible to keep… to what I can only offer up in hindsight as cowardice.
On the flip side… I am pretty sure Team Chaos will be trying to drop Nazgul’s shields at some point in future games. I doubt team Nazgul will be able to turn ALL of their agents into Nazgul because agents of Chaos grow on trees… err are trees.
The Fenris Affair
Team Nazgul had a brief discussion prior to researching SDI. They correctly assessed that Fenris intended to steal SDI.
I would summarize their decision as ‘thank Fenris for her beakers and ask her to give Treebeard our best regards when she delivers SDI to him’
Then it happened. Fenris took SDI of to team chaos before the battle. Remember the all the math about rain neutralizing SDI? Rain WITH SDI seems to be a real ‘I am no Man’ moment in the making… hint*cough*hint.
I was completely caught off guard when Ursa Minor expressed being upset at such underhanded tactics. Ursa Major contacted Treebeard directly and expressed that he would quit the game because of this style of play. In fact, a member of team Nazgul even went on global chat to complain.
WTF, this is standard Nazgul stock and trade when it comes to Masonry, what makes SDI so special?
Okay… so for anyone who thinks I am a Nazgul fan boy who sees no wrong, you are half right, but not because I see no wrong. I immediately piped up on their chat and stated that I was both surprised and disappointed by their reaction to a perfectly legitimate game strategy. I also stated that I would be saying so in my write up and volunteered to log off of their chat immediately.
… okay, so right about now, I picture folks telling their friends that they need to tune in for this episode of Nazguls Gone Wild. ShuShu is about to go negative on the Nazgul! I would love to leave that as a cliff hanger… but I can’t do it.
They were straight class up and down the line. I received multiple requests to stay, and one very telling response from Ursa Minor.
‘History should be fair’.
That simple English translation of Russian thought spoke volumes to me... and when the cliff hanger ends, I will speak those volumes to you. .
The Professor's count of 13 does work I discovered today, in civs of size 4. It worked remarkably well. However, once the number of players is different 13 no longer seems to work. There does seem to be a pattern and timing process though.
Originally Posted by ShuShu62
History should be fair – Russian version
The sequence of events is important here. I had told team Nazgul that I did not agree with how they were reacting to the wiki-leaking of SDI to the world and they let me continue to listen anyway. The leader of team Nazgul then asked, not demanded, that he be allowed to tell his side of the story.
He did that on private chat not team chat. Team chat did not discuss it any more. They also did not discuss it any farther on global chat. Ursa Minor had stopped that the moment it started.
Ursa Minor wanted to present his side, but he was not trying to monopolize the conversation.
He sent me his side of the story and it sounds like much can be chalked up to differing languages and cultures. There is a history of playing with and against each other. There is a history of one statement clearly blown out of proportion. There is a history of retribution.
Both sides agree that the Fenris affair was a personal rather than tactical attack. Having personally attacked both Mr. Yuck and Sauron, I cannot say personal attacks are wrong in their own right. I can say that I have told weaker civs to stay out of battles or I would return to their civ and wipe out their army, without being written up in public forums as a blackmailer.
Personally, I find the Russian much more compelling than the Russian Version. As is, I cannot tell whether the back story was no big deal, or as I am inclined to believe, the Russian has stoicly understated the severity of the verbal attacks made against him.
History should be fair – Fenris version
This is an actual conversation lifted straight from Chaos Chat after the game ended. I changed the names.
Fenris: I think they have figured how to exploit big rewards all over again
Treebeard: I hope not
Fenris: and ofcourse they all have "troy-bug"
Treebeard: troy-bug? lol
Fenris: heh..one you had first endless maze moves
Treebeard: oh that was nice, but you just save them is all, my team wondered if I had it again, but I've saved them for about a month and when they whole team does that ...
Fenris: yes.. and still you lost.. and you dond suspect any faul-play here?
Treebeard: they had 8 or 9 members that saved for a month also, and my team got as far as we did mainly because of mine
Fenris: we always have saved our moves, like all have all their moves saved from last month, STILL its not nearly enough to compete with nazguls speed
Treebeard: although I may be wrong, but that is my guess we weren't far behind, but we did think they'd use more VOD's
Fenris: heh.. in that period I was in, they did ONE vod you did it once, so did britts..
Treebeard: cool, i didn't see them do any. Ursa Major and Ursa Minor said they won't play in any more guild games
Fenris: well, cheating or not, they are nearly unbeatable. that's brilliant news!
Treebeard: nearly, but I want to find a way I've got to go Fenris, have a nice day
Treebeard is soft spoken so allow me to translate this conversation from Entish for you.
Fenris: Nazgul Cheat
Treebeard: No they don’t
Fenris: Yes they do
Treebeard: you need to stop talking like this the bears are talking about quitting
Treebeard: Conversation over
History should be fair – My version
The Nazgul are constantly being verbally attacked in chats. I believe these attacks represent the views of a vocal minority but the Nazgul fear that those views represent a majority opinion. As a result, they are apt to overreact to any activity that can be misconstrued as a personal attack.
I realize it is hard to view Nazgul as victims, but I ask you. How many teams got accused of cheating in that game? How many times did that ONE team get accused of it? How many different people accused them of it? How many players were personally accused of having to crush everybody to get their jollies in civ Tavern in the last week?
These individual incidents seem innocent enough, but study after study indicates that prolonged exposure to such treatment has terrible effects on the people who have had to suffer through it.
I have a concrete example of how this works from the guild game, the game was over and one era was left. Team Mongo, who I do not know, but do know the Nazgul have tremendous respect for, joked that the Nazgul would not be happy until they crushed team Mongo in battle. Chaos chat immediately lit up with chat about how Nazgul were looking for revenge because Mongo won the prior guild game. Global chat immediately lit up with folks suggesting ways to end the game before the battle.
It was a joke. But the antagonistic atmosphere meant that people took it seriously.
Both Mongo and Nazgul wanted that battle. Both sides had just spent 28 hours preparing for that battle and they both wanted to see how well they did.
Well, alrighty then… where was I? oh yeh…
I only used the 13 second count in a civ of size 3. For size 4 civ, I prefer fish until you find the person you want, them spam, then wait 50 (or was it 40... been a while now sorry) seconds, and then repeat.
Originally Posted by troyd
When I still played in small but larger sized civs (ie 5-10) it was before I realized that it wasn't truly random, so I never experimented with those.
Hey Shu Shu I guess you didnt read all the chat.......would of been cool.....as a member of the winning guild...(yet to be named)...
Well, glad to see I am not the only one drawn to delphic riddles... I am getting to the global chat section, And I promise to read it again to figure out who the true winning guild was.
Ursa Minor pointed out that they have to wait for SDI to use the hammers ... not to generate them. Only the members who were not on for Industrialization waited for the Atomic Age. The Weather Goddess kindly defended me by saying I can be a little dense at times.
Originally Posted by ShuShu62
Originally Posted by gd8man
ahhhh.... that. If you are referring to what I think you are... why then yes, it will get a chapter
gd8man doesn't know what he is talking about since he wasn't in this game ;-) I however am looking forward to your chapter on the global chat just so I can laugh about it again.
Originally Posted by ShuShu62
Now THAT, I know exactly what you are talking about. Alas, I fear the best I can hope for will be the equivlent of paraphrasing Shakespeare.
Originally Posted by TheHawk
ShuShu, there is an issue in your thread that I need to correct. In that guild game Fenris was not playing. There were a few members that joined the game as individiduals, either to watch the game for fun or to mess around. The one Fenris member that you refered to was just playing around with the teams. All their actions were not supported or approved by Fenris. Please refer to them as individual rather than "team Fenris".
I did not refer to her as team Fenris. In fact, I have referred to her as her rather than they. I have added and removed that disclaimer paragraph multiple times and pulled it. I do not refer to people by name unless they are 'miscreants'. While I thorughly disapprove of 'Fenris' ' words I do not feel they are tantamount to miscreant behavior.
Especially since I completely approve of her actions, other than them being too small scale my taste... hehehe
Besides, I think it is better that team Fenris opted to distance itself (at least a little) without my prompting. That is one of the reasons I have pulled my disclaimer multiple times.
To everyone, the story will continue, but this weakend was Chaos (not team Chaos), and there will be an unnavoidable delay.
Finally getting back to reading the forum posts. Have to say no great reveal in either Team Nazgul or Team Chaos methods or 'skills' for the most recent guild game. I would be more curious to know what the final civ buck count was per player in the more 'competitive' teams in that game.
Final winners of the game are usually team with highest average fame per player. Wonder if it is time to consider a handicap system that rewards using fewer civ bucks during guild games vs just fame points. My guess is much more senior members than me have either considered it or already have developed math formulas for it.
Then I would appreciate if you don't use the word "Fenris" to refer to her or anyone. When you do, that implies "team Fenris". Even it's cleared to you, it is not to other viewers. For example: you said "Fenris version", anyone can say that's a version of team Fenris!
Originally Posted by ShuShu62
A side question, have you check with both parties before posting private chat to public?
Welcome to the web.
You cannot control what others say. You are free to make the clarifications yourself if you feel I have not been clear enough. I even promise to remove any refference to Team Fenris that I have made. But I believe, until you brought it up, there was no implication that a Team Fenris even existed. Now if you have Trademarked or Copyrighted the name, you may have a point, so have you?
Also, chat between two people on a public chat is not private. And yes, the person who created the public chat invited me in because he knew I would be writing about its contents before granting me access. I also said as much on the Global chat in game.
As a side note, I appreciate you pointing out how classy Nazgul's response was compared to yours. And yours was not bad, just defensive. The Nazgul have no fear of being directly quoted. Their response was much more along the lines of 'We have nothing to hide, we will let history speak for itself'. I suggest you bear that in mind the next time you feel like attributing personality flaws to Nazgul. Especially if you are the same Wolf who has a habit of doing so in Civ Tavern.
ShuShu, appreciate your thinking about removing Fenris in your post.
Originally Posted by ShuShu62
1/ Yes it's the web, I can't control any saying from others, that's why I asked and appreciated if you do. I didn't not "demand".
2/ I was not in the game, not in the chat, I just raise question about publishing it without someone knows or asked.
3/ I did NOT say anything about Nazgul in my posts, please check. And so I don't understand when you said "I appreciate you pointing out how classy Nazgul's response was compared to yours. And yours was not bad, just defensive."
4/ Fenris did NOT play in that guild game. All guild leaders know it. We have a registration process for all leaders to notify the organizer which guild will play in a particular guild game. I just clarify here that we don't have a formal presence in that game, that's all.
There is a colored wolf who periodically posts anti-Nazgul motivated comments in the Tavern, my apologies if that is not you. I will add and have always planned to add a section that distinguishes Fenris from Team Fenris. I will also make it clear that team Fenris was not present in the game. But short of a stated desire to completely distance yourself from Fenris's past and future statements I see no need to change the name.
Again, I felt these simple statements would have been better if freely given rather than having to be provided with a sense of perceived extrotion hanging over them but...
. Team Fenris does not believe Team Nazgul cheats
. Team Fenris feels it would be terrible if the game's top players ceased playing because of the unsactioned statements made by a member of our team.
Yep, that would be sufficient.
I wouldn't even need you to ban Fenris from your team or require a public apology from her though that would lend credibility.
First of, I think you referred to Grey Wolf in the Tavern. I'm not that person, I'm the leader of Fenris.
Second, it would be more appropriate not to use ANY team name to refer to a person, even their leaders. Instead of using "Fenris" to replace his/her name, a simple A, B, C, etc would be better. And therefore, you don't need any disclaimer to clarify anything
Third, you said
". Team Fenris does not believe Team Nazgul cheats
. Team Fenris feels it would be terrible if the game's top players ceased playing because of the unsactioned statements made by a member of our team."
I don't know what your intention or try to say here. We as a guild don't judge other guilds. I have good relationships with Nazgul's leaders, as well as all other guild leaders. The outcome of any guild game won't change our relationships. That's why we gather together as a group in the Tavern and in guild leaders's group.
Last, we have guild rules and such, and that's our own guild matters. Why would you mention her to be banned or apologize, since you said you agreed with her actions?
Thank you again and hope we can stop this on going discussion
I apologize for the delay. The real world should never get in the way of a story, but the real world is throwing everything it can at this telling.
We last left the story with the Fenris affair dying down and the familiar tune playing in the background.
‘Everyone maze in Globalization’
The beeping has stopped because Team Nazgul has reached the perpetual beaker phase of the process, and even typing ‘in’ takes too much time away from doing mazes. As discussed in the Peregrine Took story, Internet + 10K mazes generate an ungodly amount of maze moves with each maze completion. The mazes will now be completed incredibly quickly without the need for additional inputs. They will leave Globalization open as the common maze tech before closing it out as the final tech to research.
Note… yes, I read the discussion about plastics being cheaper mazes than Globalization, and did see that you all switched over, but they already think you cheat. I figured I would keep the explanation simple… okay?
Team Chaos chat has also gone silent.
No strategy there, Treebeard went to eat before his next battle. Ents aren’t very talkative when Treebeard isn’t around.
Yep. It took team Nazgul all of 8 minutes to research their next tech… from 0. They were apparently teching so fast that they overshot by a lot. Smoke was seen coming out of the Nazgul GPS as it tried to apply the brakes.
The game has been going on for 25 hours at this point and the lack of sleep is beginning to show on global chat. I was not privy to the conversation, but I got to read the Nazgul impression of it. Other than the occasional admonition to stay out of it, there weren’t many more details beyond the clear indication that I would need to read global chat when I got home.
The global chat was indeed crazy.
1) We had one protagonist purposely misspelling the other protagonist’s name
This protagonist clearly wanted to be called names in return and would probably be well classified as a bad locker room kind of player.
2) We had the other protagonist accusing the first protagonist of being a Nazgul spy
This certainty came despite the fact that team Nazgul would hang a Mona Lisa on the wall during the conversation; Team Chaos was about to farm them for an era; and team Mongo was building the second most powerful army in the game. So apparently, in addition to being mindless cheaters, team Nazgul is also apparently stupid as it sent a spy to infiltrate the 4th most influential civ in the game (at best).
3) We had a German, yes German, peace keeping effort
The German peace keeping effort was impressive for both its tenacity and inventiveness. The obvious hopelessness of his cause to interject some civility into the conversation did not deter him. Even the power of Santa’s Reindeer was not sufficient to overcome the bad juju (though it did make a dent). Ultimately, the German peacekeeper was reduced to speaking in German tongues (the international language of peace). It was in fact, this act that ultimately returned civility to global chat.
4) We had the obligatory… Two people are having a cat fight so I will rage quit… proclamation.
The camaraderie of your guild mates playing a really complex social game is not enough? We have to make it clear that unfettered displays of rage in global chat can only be countered by additional unfettered displays of rage? To be fair, I think the conversation only resulted in the threat of a rage quit, not an actual rage quit. I just want to say that occasionally, you need to let three year olds act their age, even if it is on global chat. I admit, I obviously lean very far to the ‘free’ side of free speech and thus believe more in the power of speaking up rather than the power of silence is golden.
Lions and Tigers and Chairs oh my
I found that Global chat was not a wasteland of petty bickering and doomed peace keeping efforts. No, the better side of humanity was also on display when a member of team Mongo inquired as to the well-being of a fellow Nazgul competitor.
Apparently the Weather Goddess was playing hurt. Despite the risk of being referred to as peg-leg (or Peggy for short), she answered Ursa Minor’s call to uphold team Nazgul’s honor. I have seen the picture and I can only say that I hope Nazgul feet normally come in that shade of green. Worse yet for team Nazgul… I have played with the Weather Goddess while she is medicated… The green foot is a prettier picture… although, not as much fun.
The original explanation involving an uppity chair was rejected by the readers. The subsequent fabrication based on a flying version of War and Peace acting with malicious intent was also discarded out of hand. The readers eventually pressured the Weather Goddess into the true version.
The Weather Goddess had been busy talking to the animals in the Congo, in clear violation of the NCAA recruiting rules, when she was beset upon by Tigers. I must note here that some of the readers were quite emphatic that she must really have been attacked by lions… I leave it to you to decide.
The Weather Goddess used this controversy to slip away to Siberia to continue her illicit recruiting practices when the tigers attacked her there as well. The mere suggestion of Siberian Tigers has permanently damaged her credibility with some. I am a little fuzzy on this next part as it seems the subterranean submarine she used for her escape ran over her foot.
Anyway, my own credibility came under scrutiny as I stated that she appeared to be pursued by subterranean tigers during her escape, but that was obviously beyond the pail.
The Nazgul GPS officially reaches 1000 fame in a guild game in less than 26 hours by researching the last tech the Nazgul will research.
The Nazgul GPS declares his work is done and ready for sleep
Ursa Minor reassigns Nazgul GPS to winning caravans, which the Nazgul GPS insists is currently being dominated by an unbeatable foe.
I just spent a minute on these events to point out what I think we all know, but don’t vocalize enough. Recognition from our peers is important on some level. It is just a game, but at the guild level, it is a very small world. It is important for Team Mongo to know the reason team Nazgul is muscling up is because they respect the power team Mongo can bring to the table. It is important for team Nazgul to know that the reason team Chaos is investigating more Chaotic strategies is because team Chaos knows it is not built to beat team Nazgul at the team Nazgul game. It is important to the folks ruling the caravan to know that Nazgul was not competing because they felt they were outclassed in that area not because they felt it irrelevant.
The Praetorian Guard on Team Chaos raises an interesting point. If Fenris has distributed SDI to 3 civs by now, why does team Nazgul still have it? Okay, she really kept asking periodically, ‘should we build SDI now?’ But the answer implied the question I posed.
There is no need to build SDI until you are going to build troops. Optimally, you do not want to build troops until it is time for the battle. So nobody was taking SDI from team Nazgul, because there weren’t any battles.
Treebeard would provide a different reason in roughly 45 minutes.
Meanwhile, Team Nazgul switched over to gold to claim a few more eras and claiming a Golden Age along the way.
Treebeard looks upon Ursa Minor’s armies with lust in his heart. Treebeard wonders aloud at how Ursa Minor has amassed a military of that size.
Tsk… tsk… tsk… Though shalt not covet thy neighbor’s hammers….
All joking aside, this is a perfect example of why people think team Nazgul cheat, and why Ursa Minor is accused of wanting to crush his opponents militarily.
Let us start with… YES, it is impossible for an individual to amass as many troops as Ursa Minor assembled in 27 hours. But I have already explained how and why it is done. Ursa Minor estimates that there are only 12 players in the game who can generate a 500% mini-game bonus without the perfect map. One is his teammate (Usra Minor); one is his opponent in Team Mongo. Based on my experience, I think his estimate of 12 as high. (Baby Nazgul only hit 350% for the baby guild but my guess is she is in that list too)
Team Nazgul limits troops to people who can post a 500% mini game. The Ursa’s have similarly sized armies, because they like to balance troops between the two until the final battle where they plow all hammers into the general who will be online. This two player flexibility is very important as ‘in mini game’ pops up quite often leading into and during a battle.
I have talked to my hammers and they have made it clear to me in no uncertain terms, that if I make them fight for me and my puny 80% minigame bonus when a 500% bonus is available they will overthrow me for acting illogically and defect to the better mini-game bonus anyway. So, the two bears do not have a massive army because of a personal need to have the biggest army, they have the biggest armies because their teammates want to get the biggest bang for their hammers.
Ursa Minor’s army is huge because it represents ½ to ¾ of the entire Nazgul civilization output. Also realize that output has been swollen because all day 2 dowries went to a player who has been hoarding great builders. Also realize that as of 3:30pm, all the civbucks spent, were spent during the Atomic era to generate hammers or held in reserve for weather. Keep in mind that one Nazgul signed in just before the battle with team Mongo with 37 civbuck spending capacity.
Okay, if that didn’t make sense, try this…
Team Nazgul techs so efficiently, that they spend civbucks to get hammers and give the hammers to players with a 500% min game bonus….