Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 54

Thread: It's up!!! RPS delivers a KNOCKOUT !

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brought to you by GE Lightspeed
    Posts
    2,492

    It's up!!! RPS delivers a KNOCKOUT !

    He finally posted the followup, and, well, I won't ruin the surprise.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...w/#more-109470

  2. #2
    I'm sorry I must be being stupid but all I took from that was Sectopod's are in and they're still not talking about base invasion.

    *Nevermind just realised I skipped a whole question by accident. Kinda wish I hadn't read it now though!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brought to you by GE Lightspeed
    Posts
    2,492
    Confusion !!!

    Regarding base attacks:
    "I actually don’t want to answer the question entirely in terms of how it stands because there are elements that work well in this XCOM. We have a fail state that you can get into. But adding a component that is punitive and not only punitive but really punishes you for success feels a little counterintuitive"

    Damn.. that sounds like it really is not going to play a major role, if its even in the game. It sounds like if it -IS- included, its close to the fail state. Wow..

  4. #4
    I fear we may have to resort to waterboarding to get a straight answer before October

    -Please note I do not condone the mental or physical abuse of game developers for the needs of fan boys such as my self....... although in this case they're pushing their luck!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    277
    so where's the KNOCKOUT?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    656
    Wow a total non-answer on our question...great.
    I can totally understand why they would not implement base attacks in the same way as before.
    If you think about it loosing a base attack with only one base means insta-death no matter how well you did to that point.
    And that is just stupid from a gameplay standpoint.

    However I really hope they found a way to imtegrate base defenses while keeping the stakes low enough so you won't completely loose the game if you fail.
    Like, maybe your hangars could get attacked or maybe the aliens will just steal stuff from your base and damage some buildings in the process.

    Anyway seems we will have to wait a bit longer to get a real answer out of them. I'm excited either way.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    373
    That's funny, b/c in one of those other threads from today, an article did mention in passing that you could lose a base, I have a feeling he didn't know what he was talking about, but maybe you can only lose satellite bases - to be playing a great game, and then have you efforts wasted by a bad luck base attack - seems like it might be a pulled punch we might appreciate.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brought to you by GE Lightspeed
    Posts
    2,492
    Well that would be interesting (losing a satellite base) considering we cannot deploy soldiers to defend those bases.

    Unless they make it into a "mission", so to speak. Aliens attack a satellite base and you have to deploy your skyranger to that location to kill off the aliens or lose that base.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Well that would be interesting (losing a satellite base) considering we cannot deploy soldiers to defend those bases.

    Unless they make it into a "mission", so to speak. Aliens attack a satellite base and you have to deploy your skyranger to that location to kill off the aliens or lose that base.
    I could deal with that, wouldn't be as good as your actual base but a solid compromise none the less.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    816
    I'd read the base attack answer as: "we know everyone wants some sort of base attack to be 'in' but we're still trying to work out how on earth we can do that and make it work... :s " ... ... think i've given my boss the same answer a few times

    If it was definitely out because they'd made a decision about it, they'd have an explaination lined up (like with TU and single base and... all the other stuff)... if it was in I'd expect them to be dropping almost noncommittal hints about it...


    I hope they let the troopers who are injured at the end of the missions live... the mad dash to kill the last alien to save "dave" who was dumb enough to look around the wrong corner was always a very memorable end to a mission. Even if you failed and he bought it the turn before the end... it's a good driver.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    816
    oh, and does anyone have any idea how we can convince them to do the "voice over changes with troopers rank" thing... they were talking about the rookies panicking again and it reminded me. One of the best suggestions I've seen so far. Rookies are all gunho but the seasoned and veteran troops are more grim... would be a really good addition to the immersion, character development and connection to the troops...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brought to you by GE Lightspeed
    Posts
    2,492
    Yea, I agree, this sounds right
    "v"we know everyone wants some sort of base attack to be 'in' but we're still trying to work out how on earth we can do that and make it work... :s " ... ... think i've given my boss the same answer a few times "

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Brought to you by GE Lightspeed
    Posts
    2,492
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyRighty View Post
    oh, and does anyone have any idea how we can convince them to do the "voice over changes with troopers rank" thing... they were talking about the rookies panicking again and it reminded me. One of the best suggestions I've seen so far. Rookies are all gunho but the seasoned and veteran troops are more grim... would be a really good addition to the immersion, character development and connection to the troops...
    Irrelevant since I am going to mute that garbage anyway. Last thing I want is Duke Nukem with aliens... oh wait, that is Duke Nukem.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    373
    I cant wait to hear the voice overs- in fact I'm going to turn down the music and sound effects level, and just crank the voices to max- that's really all I want to hear. So there.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Irrelevant since I am going to mute that garbage anyway.
    well the hope would be to make the voice stuff good so turning it off would be something you don't want to do.


    I remember the aftermath series... the voice over there was horrid and I did just that, turn it off the moment the game was installed. Such a shame... this game looks to have really nice visuals and alot of thought, but for the voice to let it down :sadpanda:

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    713
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyRighty View Post
    I'd read the base attack answer as: "we know everyone wants some sort of base attack to be 'in' but we're still trying to work out how on earth we can do that and make it work... :s " ... ... think i've given my boss the same answer a few times

    If it was definitely out because they'd made a decision about it, they'd have an explaination lined up (like with TU and single base and... all the other stuff)... if it was in I'd expect them to be dropping almost noncommittal hints about it...


    I hope they let the troopers who are injured at the end of the missions live... the mad dash to kill the last alien to save "dave" who was dumb enough to look around the wrong corner was always a very memorable end to a mission. Even if you failed and he bought it the turn before the end... it's a good driver.
    Yes i totally agree with what you have said - sounds like they do have something resembling base attacks but its not good or is not right in some way and his answer almost implys there not sure wether to put it in or not.
    to be honest base attacks and the way they have made the ant colony - i was always wondering how it was going to work due to how everyone will probably build the bases differently and the many different combinations.
    If it was down to me - i would have a above ground battle where the aliens try to infiltrate your bunker(that way its the same base for everyone no matter what the configuration)with you desperatly trying to stop them infiltrating the bunker - if they get inside - it should be the main hanger where the skyranger and jets are kept(again exactly the same for every base no matter what your configuration)if you lose that battle its game over.
    Its better to do something on a smaller scale and do it well than to try to do everything especially if it feels like its not working.
    This is just my own opinion of course.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    816
    just spitballing here, but maybe they could attack a faction's hq's as a compromise.

    It's still a base fight... but instead of outright losing the campaign, you immediately lose that faction. ... didn't apocalypse have something similar with the mind control beam thing?

    but yeah the problem is ant farm is good, and cool and they're commited to it... but how does base attack work with that?!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyRighty View Post
    just spitballing here, but maybe they could attack a faction's hq's as a compromise.

    It's still a base fight... but instead of outright losing the campaign, you immediately lose that faction. ... didn't apocalypse have something similar with the mind control beam thing?

    but yeah the problem is ant farm is good, and cool and they're commited to it... but how does base attack work with that?!
    That's actually not hard. It'd be highly vertical though. I think the main issues that they're wrestling with is that a base attack is an all or nothing affair, even if you had more than one in the original. They don't want something purely punitive, but I kind of understand that.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Well that would be interesting (losing a satellite base) considering we cannot deploy soldiers to defend those bases.

    Unless they make it into a "mission", so to speak. Aliens attack a satellite base and you have to deploy your skyranger to that location to kill off the aliens or lose that base.
    This is probably the best replacement for the original's style of base defence. Quite frankly, if they found the main base, chances are-especially if XCOM had been a major pain in their side-it would be all over but the screaming. They'd just throw mutons, floaters, 'serkers, sectopods and chryssalids into it until XCOM was defeated by sheer attrition. Or they'd just roll the alien analog of a SADM in and let it off.

    Sure, in theory you could fend off a battleship's worth of aliens with the local troops-but they'd just send more in.* Alien attacks on HQ being part of the death spiral makes sense to me.

    *The aliens forgetting a XCOM base after a fended off assault in the original never made sense to me.

  20. #20
    I was wondering how they gonna incorporate the Xcom base layout during alien invasion if they already set it as an ant-farm. I already know the main coridor that accesses different facilities is on one side, and it is multi-level. There would be no facility in between the facility you can view as ant farm and the access coridor. So its just single row of rooms per level. Sounds pretty easy to stop an alien invasion just by having a few soldiers overwatch at the main coridor while the main group sweep from room to room.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Quote Originally Posted by ghaza View Post
    I was wondering how they gonna incorporate the Xcom base layout during alien invasion if they already set it as an ant-farm. I already know the main coridor that accesses different facilities is on one side, and it is multi-level. There would be no facility in between the facility you can view as ant farm and the access coridor. So its just single row of rooms per level. Sounds pretty easy to stop an alien invasion just by having a few soldiers overwatch at the main coridor while the main group sweep from room to room.
    Just like the original. ;D

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Inkidu View Post
    Just like the original. ;D
    At least in the original coridor are more open and can be accessed from many sides. On this version the layouot map is going to look rather silly and unrealistic.

    Further more I am pretty sure we are going to have more than 6 guys at the base (they'll be on rotation for mission). But the gameplay already restrict 6 as your maximum squad in the tactical mission. So then it will look silly if during a base invasion only 6 dudes are actively defending the base.

    I rather they introduce a different mechanism to increase difficulty now that the base invasion map is going to look silly or not even remotely resembles your ant farm design if they want to avoid silly looking layout. I can accept the game punishing the player when he does too good, but not at the risk of destroying immersion. The ant farm is an immersion tool for me, I fell in love with it when the show our soldiers running on a tread mill and playing pool. Imposing the 6 man per team and then having me question it in game during base invasion going to ruin it for me too. So if these are not solvable, they should forget about base invasion.

    Maybe instead of base invasion, the aliens trick us into going for a mission and the sky ranger gets shot down and XCOM have to start that mission around a damaged sky ranger. Risk losing the best soldier & time lost to repair the Sky Ranger later on adding difficulting overall. Theres no issue of qustionable map layout or potentilally breaking the 6 man tactical mechanics and players questioning it validity during base invasion.

  23. #23
    I don't think its possible to fight in the base because maps are handcrafted. If they could generate maps on the fly, they would just do that for all battles, not just base invasions. So chances are, we are probably just fighting on a handcrafted area of the base - likely the entrance. The base entrance makes sense, aliens lands nearby, the alarm sounds. In old xcom, everyone magically vanishes except for the few rookies and vets. Here, we probably will see 4 soldiers you select to rush to the entrance and fight. Once aliens break through the entrance, they'll probably show us a base-annihiltion cinematic where they kill rest of the people and soldiers you didn't use.

  24. #24
    There seems to be a lot of people on these forums that won't be happy unless Firaxis basically just repackages the old X-com. Everything they take away is instantly "the best part" of the original X-com. We've been playing the original X-com for almost 20 years. I'm just really happy to have a NEW X-com, otherwise, what's the point. As for base invasions, I'm sad to see it go, but for everything Firaxis leaves out with their iteration, they make up for with innovation.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where d'you think? Sectoid Squishing!
    Posts
    3,528
    Amen to that, mstorey. As far as I'm concerned, each article that's released makes me want to get my hands on the game more!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Tejas (but I've lived all over)
    Posts
    6,668
    I haven't been following all the PR, so the main thing I got out of that article was a max squad size of 6 by the end game. Ouch.

    As for the base defense, I never looked at it that way, but he's correct when he says it was an entirely negative experience that punished you for doing too well. It was basically a cheat. It's like the game decided that if the main gameplay--shooting down invaders and wiping the floor with any that hit the ground--lacked challenge while you were waiting to research the final mission, here, we'll change it up and attack you at your base! While I loved base defense, it sounds like they are never going to let us start breezing through. If they can keep the game challenging in the field missions, right up until the end game, then there really isn't any need to flip things around and defend your base.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Quote Originally Posted by mstorey View Post
    There seems to be a lot of people on these forums that won't be happy unless Firaxis basically just repackages the old X-com. Everything they take away is instantly "the best part" of the original X-com. We've been playing the original X-com for almost 20 years. I'm just really happy to have a NEW X-com, otherwise, what's the point. As for base invasions, I'm sad to see it go, but for everything Firaxis leaves out with their iteration, they make up for with innovation.
    See, I agree. I'm a pretty late-coming XCOM fan so it's easy for me to pick out what needs improvement or what feels dated, it's my opinion of course, but still. However, I don't think base defense will be simply gone. I think it might change or become more of a losing final punishment (probably like it should be implemented) rather than some random "you're doing to well" backhanded mechanic.

    A much better "you're doing to well" mechanic was the superhuman trend of ramping up the invasion on you.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    115
    Maybe they are considering allowing one of your off-base hangers to be attacked we haven't seen what they look like yet. seems you could make a tight map with lots of cover in an aircraft hanger. Maybe you'll have to defend them with rookies waiting to be deployed. potentially losing a hanger, while costly may not necessarily be game ending

  29. #29
    Base defense was always exciting. I think that they haven't decided if or how it is going to be included as a final product yet. It doesn't have to be a base defense at all for us to have that exciting feeling we had before. We just need to be put into a situation where we are defending an area to the last man and they are the ones pressing wave after wave against us. To feel their offensive from a purely defensive state is just a different point of view all together. It rounds out the idea of taking it as good as you give it. To which I say bring it!

  30. #30
    Well I am so glad they left in the important part like being able to rename my soldier... That must have been a coding nightmare for them!

  31. #31
    It's a shame base defence is out (my reading of the article) I liked the paranoia it evoked in me as a player and strategically it made so much sense, so it enhanced the story arc beautifully. Who wouldn't believe that the alien over-mind would look at its subordinates and demand to know why another Battleship class had been lost over North American airspace and why this area had a much higher incidence of interceptions... It was absolutely spot on, a reaction to a threat! It's not punishing to get a visit from the alien force after you have just wiped out their x hundredth alien craft. This always made me feel like 'Yeah, we're kickin' your asses now!'

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by Severene View Post
    Well I am so glad they left in the important part like being able to rename my soldier... That must have been a coding nightmare for them!
    ??? Thats easy to code.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bavaria
    Posts
    814
    That... was irony.
    It's basically when you say something but mean the opposite.


    The interview is kind of a good news / bad news deal.
    The good news is that we finally got an answer on the "Base attacks" issue. The bad news is that the answer is "no comment". =)

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Yeah, but the answer has always been no comment. Jake Solomon said he wasn't talking about it way back in the GameSpy interview.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    187
    While the base invasions were quite punitive, I felt that they were justified. I mean, you are dismantling Alien bases at one point. Why shouldn't the Aliens look for the base of those pesky humans? So, I would find it odd (and be slightly disappointed) if base defense was totaly out of the game. But then again, in this XCOM, if you messed up the base defense, it is totally game over. So, yeah, I would understand the reasoning behind it, but personally, I would love to see base defense missions. Even if it is just a "defend the gate!" mission and if you fail, some facilities get damaged or destroyed.

    But in the end, it is Firaxis that's developping the game. I would love to see their vision on XCOM.

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Dohon View Post
    While the base invasions were quite punitive, I felt that they were justified. I mean, you are dismantling Alien bases at one point. Why shouldn't the Aliens look for the base of those pesky humans? So, I would find it odd (and be slightly disappointed) if base defense was totaly out of the game. But then again, in this XCOM, if you messed up the base defense, it is totally game over. So, yeah, I would understand the reasoning behind it, but personally, I would love to see base defense missions. Even if it is just a "defend the gate!" mission and if you fail, some facilities get damaged or destroyed.

    But in the end, it is Firaxis that's developping the game. I would love to see their vision on XCOM.
    I know hindsight's twenty-twenty and all that, but some kind of reward should have been tied to winning a base defense mission beyond keeping your base. Perhaps there'd be no terror mission for that month or something.

    I don't think we'll see it go, but it probably will change. They'd have just said, "We did away with that" and the reasons why if they'd really gotten rid of it.

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazz View Post
    That... was irony.
    It's basically when you say something but mean the opposite.
    =)
    Ah, thank you. Let me try:
    Irony works well in the internet, because mimic and accentuation are being transmitted well in text only. ;-)

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    On Earth
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by Inkidu View Post
    I think the main issues that they're wrestling with is that a base attack is an all or nothing affair, even if you had more than one in the original.
    Why should it all be a maximal set of conditions that spells final Defeat or small Victories at *A* base. Infiltration, Sabotage, Retaliation... these Aliens might want to perform some researching steps and coordinated attacks (ref; Interceptors launch sites, etc) of their own. I seriously doubt they don't operate from a central "location" (or more) as well.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyxpsilon View Post
    Why should it all be a maximal set of conditions that spells final Defeat or small Victories at *A* base. Infiltration, Sabotage, Retaliation... these Aliens might want to perform some researching steps and coordinated attacks (ref; Interceptors launch sites, etc) of their own. I seriously doubt they don't operate from a central "location" (or more) as well.
    They're trying to figure out how to reward a player for winning a base attack. They're right when they say that it was all punitive in the classic game.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    448
    They could just reward you with the guns fragments and corpses of the landing party, like in the first game. Or they could make it possible to storm the dropship if you either win within a certain number of turns.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •