settlers, and new cities
I'm curious how long many turns you can realistically move them. At times i have seen places that are 3-5 turns away that seem like much better spots. On a hill, near horses and cows, or stone and gold are close. Or your spot is basically desert with no food.
Maybe they work, but at my new level i look and think,, oky, now what.. lets explore!!
But even a few times i see a hill right near me across a river which can take 2 turns.. Is that worth it?
I'm also trying to figure out around when is good to plan the next city? trying to get one quick, i have done it as fast as 27, But most times it seems more like closing in on 40-50.. (i typically have been building a bit always on stuff like gold and stone.)
OR is it better to just get a city up and running close by, even if it is mostly farms, and grassland/forest..
I also was reading something that said you shouldn't chop down forests, cause they are used for something later. But sometimes there are tons of forests around me, like every tile for the whole city. forest and jungle with some rivers. (playing earth map) chopping a few can't be bad right? Seems like that could be a nice boost in production to chop 2-3 or even 4, make farms or trade building or something in it's place?
would 3 cities close together be better than 2 far apart? My thinking is i could get more combat units quicker, or take turns making combat units at all while upgrading the city?
loving the game so far, but trying to get a more solid start.. I tried king level last night and by about turn 125 i had some guy calling me weak and trying to invade my city!!
There are no straight answers for many of these questions, especially when it comes to expansion. Expand too quickly and you won't be able to defend your vulnerable new cities. Expand to slowly and the AI will take up all the good spots. If you put your cities too close together, they will be too crowded to grow large. If you put them too far apart, the will be hard to defend and the road maintenance will be high. You have to constantly measure these things out and measure which strategies are going to work for each new map and who and where your neighbors are. Just keep trying different things.
I do tend to settle my first city right away. Sometimes I move it one hex, but you're usually given a good spot. What's not good is if they give you a spot that's close to an ocean, but not on the ocean. If you can't build a lighthouse, all those ocean hexes are pretty useless.
As far as forests go, they're meant to be chopped. I always chop forests along rivers. If I don't have enough production tiles inland, I keep a few around. Mostly, though, it depends on what the rest of your hexes look like and what your goals for that city are.
I usually settle my first city right away as well. After that I tend to prefer settling cities on/nearby hills since I enjoy the production.
I often have 3-4 cities for a long time until I can manage my happiness better. Then I try to expand further. Although I'm not a big fan of the tradition tree, I do like the opener that increases border expansion. That lets me avoid having too many cities early on while still having nice big borders. Then I can fill in the spaces in between my cities with more cities, or take up whatever's left over later on. On continent maps usually there are a few unsettled islands that I can claim around the Renaissance.
Unless you are the Iroquois or the Celts.
Originally Posted by Joketa
When decideing if you should chop or not consider the balance of food and production. Ideally you want a city with some food and production. But if you have to pick, all production is better then all food.
Choppping forest hills should allways be done unless you do not have enough food to feed your citizens around a 3 tile radius.
chopping forest on plains is good to do because you will not loose a hammer and you will get some instant hammers giveing you an early bonus.
But be careful about chopping grassland forest, especially grassland forest without a river. a decent city needs atleast 6-8 production tiles. If all your surrounding tiles contain forest then research mining first and build a monument/granary and pick free worker or just build a worker.
thanks for the info..
I have read a little here and there and saw a few laughing about waiting till turn 50 to have another city.. But i for one am having a hard time doing it faster. at times, i just dont have the food production to get a second person quick.. if the near by ruin cities don't give you a second. So that can be almost 20 turns to get a second person.. (your best food source is 1 green)
the other side, i have noticed, if you get 3 people, then your happiness is down to 4, and you have to increase it to 5 to drop the city, or you get the negitive. But to build an upgrade, it takes calender, or mining, or many times i get stuck with having to tech to jungle cutting.. that is like 30 turns atleast.
even getting the free settler, often doesnt come till like 30+ for me.. then by the time i move it another 10 turns or soo depending on terrain, it is closing on 50 anyway.
I also have been messing around getting a monument first, then a worker, or settler, and then teching to writing, and trying to get an early library.. but all that is like 50+ too.
am i just missing some basic concepts on happiness? cause upgrades are the only thing i really see. perhaps it is the empire? I keep playing russia.. and i'm playing on earth, and my start point is india, right bellow the desert.. (which looks like a great spot to expand too.. HOld that platue and have 4 choke points, to launch attacks at the neihboring people.
You have to buy, build or steal a worker as fast as you can. That way you can harvest the luxury resources around you quickly, thus boosting your happiness.
ok.. soo that leads to another topic.. what to pay for.. The start place i have, 2 cotton feilds, and then hourses right next..
My thinking is, start a new city in the desert, build a pryimidm and then a 3rd city to drop on gold and elephants,,, this blocks off the entire east side of india, and starts owning the middle..
any thoughts on how to get 3 early cities, aka before 65 turns? Cause that is when both AI people start to build were i am planing.. I can show you a screenie... I have restarted a few times, as i want to get the great library, and pryimids in the desert, for RP reasons.. anyone with thoughts on how to do it?
there is a place that i can instant build to get to a oasis.. also there is some wheat on a river, and horses.. also the new city has acess to stone, marbel and a second marble.. Ill show you a screenie soon... as i said, im just learning, yet at the same time.. im having a blast..
I would say hold off on wonders until you have a city that can pump out the hammers. Wonders are a luxury building, not a necessity.
I would say that you need to start on a lower difficulty setting for the first few games just to get the hang of the management and mechanics aspects. Sounds like you are on King difficulty from the sounds of the Happiness.
Originally Posted by civi'je
Usual plan is worker->settler->monument. I prefer scout->settler->archer and just steal the workers from the city states I don't like. Generally better to settle in plains/grasslands on a river for faster growth and better building access late game. Oceans are less profitable until the Renaisance Period.
Managing Happiness is your main foe in Civ 5 after the happiness nerf. My recommendation is to go the right side of honor social policy at the start. Gives u great culture generation and barbarian defense early with several no upkeep happiness buildings later. Then I get the right side of Liberty. This lets u expand without getting killed by unhappiness. Follow with the right side of commerce and Freedom will give u 30+ happiness no matter how big u grow. Rampaging barbarians makes this go really fast.
Make sure you get the happiness wonders. Keep great engineers and great scientists just for these special wonders. Scientist to research them.
Placing early cities should focus on luxury resource and horses/elephants for easy happiness early game. Even if u have 5 same luxuries u can trade other civ's for theirs or sell them for lots of money to other civ's and buy happy buildings.
Do any kill barbarian missions u get right away from city states. These are easy ways to boost happiness fast because they often have luxury resources, culture bonus, or food to grow your cities fast. Maritime allies can double early city growth.
Egypt is probably the easiest beginner civ. Just because of their tombs and increase wonder production. Late game can have u building wonders in just a few turns. Also don't play above prince level till u get the hang of it. Makes the games fun without the frustration till u can manage to keep up with the other civ's. When u reach the point of having tanks in the 1500's and u r getting golden ages every 30-40 turns, then u r ready to be trashed by the higher levels.
I meant a universal luxury. Of course, if you really love those wonders such that you always "must have" them, that's great. But they aren't a must for everyone.
Originally Posted by codekiddy
Personnaly I believe that founding the first city in the very first turn is crucial.
Still I suppose there may be such cases when you can trade-off 1 turn for better place but I never had such cases so far.
Also, I can not see how mooving your settler on one or two hexes bring benifit since you will get this desired hexes anyhow, by expanding your borders (not speaking of that you can always buy certain hexes if you really need them).
There was also a good point abbout chopping the woods on plains and not chopping it on grassland. Never thought of it that far but it sounds very sense.
Though I myself often scrifise a wood or two to get certain wonders earlier than my competitives, otherwise I try not to bother precious lungs of the Planet (for no reason since it doesnt have any climatic effects on the world of CiV).
Speaking of Jungles I rarely chopp them, because I offtenly use them later to produce sciense (a University gives you +2 science per Jungle tile). Particulaty I often found a city near jungles allready knowing that I will focus it on science production. However chopping a tile or two could not harm if you have too much of them.
Personnaly I stick to the points that chopping jungles/woods is unnesecary unless you hurrying the World Wonder (or in critical cases when you are really lack of production in certain spot).
About founding new cities:
You obviously should try to found your first ones near luxury resourses. But don't be too greedy, because at the very start you will not have enough workers to work out the resources as fast as you want on one hand, and you will not be able to defend those three cities at once on the other. Also, settling a city on the luxury resource near the border of other civilization is almost equals bad relationships and will trigger unlikely alliances and early hostile actions against you (which is usually unlikely, unless you willing it yourself).
Last edited by Akinaba; 06-04-2012 at 05:04 AM.