View Poll Results: Would you like to see co-op game play in the XCOM

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  • Yes and I would use it

    35 61.40%
  • No and has no place in the game

    15 26.32%
  • Nether, as i wouldn't use it but wouldn't be bothered if it was in the game

    7 12.28%
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Thread: Could co-op play work in XCOM, see my argument before you vote and keep an open mind.

  1. #1
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    Could co-op play work in XCOM, see my argument before you vote and keep an open mind.

    If you vote can you put your reason why? Rather than clicking yes or no or nether. So that people can respond to it.

    I have copied this from the multi-player forum as its not about multi-player but co-op play and feel that multi-player doesnt have a place in XCOM, while co-op could have a place. Here is my argument from the multi-player thread

    Most of the people in the multi-player thread are against, or not fused about multi-player. In my opinion this could be down to one factor.....the original was single player and why add it to the new version. Xcom is about the single player experience.

    Well i for one would love to see it in the game in some way. I'm not talking mmo style pve, or xcom vs alien one off battles pvp but more co-op. Two players, two bases, sharing research and attacking the aliens from two fronts. You could then team up for missions. 2 squads on the same mission. When ever a mission comes up you both have to chance to sign up for the mission. This would increase the chances of success in larger missions or it could be an invite system. I shoot down a alien ship and send my skyranger in, there is a button that allows me to send an invite to my coop mate to join me. There are pros and cons to the invite. Pros you have better chance of success as the aliens are attacked by two teams, cons all the alien tech is divided meaning you cant sell off as much, reducing your income also slowing down the advancements of you team via experience. Therefore slowing advancement in the game financially and in the development of you squads, but acceleration you research as each base could research different branches and share thier knowledge. This would mean they you would have to play a balancing game of coop play and single game play so you don't fall behind in team advancement and finances while flying ahead with reasearch.

    As for the end game mission; this could be increased in difficulty or amount of aliens you face to balance it out so its not a cake walk.

    The reason i like the idea of co-op is when i used to play on my Amiga 1200 my mate used to come around to my house and we would half the soldiers. At the start of the game, we would have 4 soldiers each and order in 2 more (one each) and using the name editor delete the last names and replace them with X1 or X2 with the following after S, O,H G & P standing for Sniper, Overwatch, Heavy Weapons, Grenadier and when we researched it Psi, based on the skills they had over 50 (70 for grenadiers and 75 for Psi). I played many a great game using the method back in the mid 90's. So surely in this day and age with the advent of the internet and high speed connection, make Xcom a co-op game would not be to difficult. I know that my mate was looking forward to playing Xcom with me when it comes out, that was until we found out the squad is maxed out at 6 soldiers. That means 3 each. Going co-op would allow for people to play the game like we use to and expand on that game style and allow the developers to put in some intresting co-op exclusive content like lager maps and unique missions designed for co-op. They could also ramp up the alien sighting by 80% so that single player single play missions are still there and you can still run co-op missions in the game. This also leaves you with the option that if one of you bases gets attacked and taken out, then the remaining player continues on in single player mode.

    The reason that i am behind the idea of co-op is choice. I someone wants to play co-op then they can, and if they want to play single player they can. This would appeal to an additional dynamic in the gaming world that would increase the sales of the game and in turn bring in more money for the developer, which would increase the likely hood of DLC, expansions & squeals (Terror from the Deep springs to mind. Love underwater gameplay).

    Would love to see what peoples response to this post is? Negative or Positive? You decide.

    PS i apologies for any typos and things that make no sense as i am sitting out side on my laptop in the sun and the screen is quite hard to see so couldn't proof reed it correctly.
    Last edited by PeppermintShore; 06-14-2012 at 09:13 AM. Reason: To request the people put a reason for the developers to see

  2. #2
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    While I think co-op would be interesting and cool I'm not sure how much it would really bring to the game. I think Firaxis can pull off a really good co-op mode for XCOM. Will I be upset if co-op isn't implemented on release or at all? No not really. Would I play co-op if it's included? Absolutely.

  3. #3
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    I'm all for co-op and agree with your opinion on multiplayer, but I just can't see how co-op would fit in the game mechanics. I see how you have approached it, and I also conquered the first game with a friend (he handled the assets and finances, i did the combat) But that was just two of us at the same machine together.

    Online co-op with separate teams is different. It's the time aspect I'm not sure how to overcome. Bases and strategy need thought and take a lot of time. And as this isn't live-action but turn based, each player will take a LONG time or else be rushed and feel frustrated. It'll be online chess with aliens.

    I'm not against the idea, I just can't imagine how it would function.

  4. #4
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    No thanks co-op. Great on other games but not here, you have to be on your own in the dark with your headphones on. It's hard to pee in your pants with someone else screaming at you down the mic

  5. #5
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    Co op would work beautifully with xcom - there are so many ways to implement it

    2 player game - player one xcom - player 2 aliens

    true co - op mode both players working for xcom - on combat missions one player controls 2 or 3 players - same for player 2
    each player has a base but you would have to work together as a team to make both bases work - so one base may do research and train soldiers - the other base would do manafacture and train officers etc etc etc etc
    one base would cover one half the globe the other base the opposite

  6. #6
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    I dont see why multiplayer or coop couldnt be included down the road.... would that affect anyone who doesnt want to play those online with others? No! Im a fan of the original but i dont get all worked up over change like some do..... its not like the game isnt going to be not playable single player if they include it in a DLC, but if its not included, it isnt gonna change how much im gonna play this game and have fun doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    I dont see why multiplayer or coop couldnt be included down the road.... would that affect anyone who doesnt want to play those online with others? No! Im a fan of the original but i dont get all worked up over change like some do..... its not like the game isnt going to be not playable single player if they include it in a DLC, but if its not included, it isnt gonna change how much im gonna play this game and have fun doing so.
    Honestly I think the biggest reason why some people don't necessarily want multiplayer, pvp specifically, is because taking the time to balance it correctly will take development time away from the single player experience. Co-op though I'm at a loss about why someone would be 100% against it since it seems like it would be really easy to implement and code, just a guess I really have no idea. I would be interested to hear exactly why someone who is against co-op is so against it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorious_BLT View Post
    Honestly I think the biggest reason why some people don't necessarily want multiplayer, pvp specifically, is because taking the time to balance it correctly will take development time away from the single player experience. Co-op though I'm at a loss about why someone would be 100% against it since it seems like it would be really easy to implement and code, just a guess I really have no idea. I would be interested to hear exactly why someone who is against co-op is so against it though.
    I understand what you mean and I want the game to be the best it possibly can be, but it would attract new players that dont enjoy single player, which means more revenue...which could mean more xcom games. I just feel like its something they could easily work up with a unit point cap and different aliens costing different amounts. as far as coop.... sure, why not? However a couple of the maps they've showed look fairly small so I dunno if theres enough room for 2 squads fighting, but im all for it. I enjoy single player games and xcom is by far my favorite game of all time.... so either way its a win/win for me!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    I understand what you mean and I want the game to be the best it possibly can be, but it would attract new players that dont enjoy single player, which means more revenue...which could mean more xcom games. I just feel like its something they could easily work up with a unit point cap and different aliens costing different amounts. as far as coop.... sure, why not? However a couple of the maps they've showed look fairly small so I dunno if theres enough room for 2 squads fighting, but im all for it. I enjoy single player games and xcom is by far my favorite game of all time.... so either way its a win/win for me!
    I'm pretty much with you man. If they include MP, great! If they don't include MP I still get to play single player so I'm happy .

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    Silly idea. WAY too much programming required for something that people will likely never use. It would literally take months to finish a single campaign, and that's assuming two people could agree on the time and place to meet on an ongoing basis. And that's for a single game. So like 90% of people would try it, but no one would use it after a while.

    No point in wasting their time making a feature that would be used by a minority of players and has no impact on sales. Better to spend that time adding research, weapons, fine tuning the game, etc.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Silly idea. WAY too much programming required for something that people will likely never use. It would literally take months to finish a single campaign, and that's assuming two people could agree on the time and place to meet on an ongoing basis. And that's for a single game. So like 90% of people would try it, but no one would use it after a while.

    No point in wasting their time making a feature that would be used by a minority of players and has no impact on sales. Better to spend that time adding research, weapons, fine tuning the game, etc.
    Just curious here, where are you getting your data to support this opinion?

    I realize that anecdotal evidence is the worst kind but, my friends and I have played several large games of Sword of the Stars (a turn based 4X game similar to MOO, although the combat is real time) over the course of a month or two so there are people who will use a multiplayer feature in a game like XCOM. (Holy run on sentence Batman!)

    *smoke grenades self for run on sentence... I am ashamed *

  12. #12
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    Multiplayer
    Hello I've been a fan of Microprose: X-COM. The re-creation of X-COM using the latest in gaming technology is exciting, yet without modern day challenges.

    Contemplating on Multiplayer, @ it's core X-COM withstood the test of time by taking aspects of challenge, risk, and replay-ability as a single player game.

    Turned base strategy fits perfectly for single player when I'm in between moves to eat my cookies, which is the reason I loved X-COM combined with a glowy screen in a dark private room with the piano background music. Implementing multiplayer, more suited for real time strategy, you may find me playing other games in between turns, the gnashing of teeth as I afk for a cookie, and just impatient to wait for the other player who maybe away for a cookie. Sounds like chess? Put a 1 minute countdown which auto moves if player eats cookie.

    How will multi-player take effect in X-COM?
    Convert to real time strategy? Please don't I suck at shooters which rely on twitchy fingers.
    X-COM vs. X-COM? Doesn't make sense against a horde of aliens unless its for training purposes. A holodeck/Virtual reality simulator facility with maps and starting equipment that are balanced. Ummm...naw...hate pvp.
    Alien vs. Alien? Nope, to weird unless its another halodec/vr simulator to train aliens lol. Ok weird again.
    X-Com vs. Alien? Overpowered aliens, and no, I always want to be the good guy killing the threat.

    For a moment, lets chuck the above.
    Lets extend multiplayer as the original post implies: Cooperative.
    X-COM individual players maintaining control of their heroes & facilities like single player but working cooperatively versus alien computer? How?

    Staged Content
    To retain what we've come to love, turned based single player ownership of the game, coop can exist whereby players work together to global situations as staged content.

    What the heck is staged content?

    A global event can be staged as the need to gather 2,000,000 uranium 115 from a pool of many players in order for X-COM to remain peak efficiency, thereby unlocking faster facility build time by 15% for everyone. John has more time to play, therfore salvaging more uranium 115 and greatly helping the cause of uranium collection. John gathers 100 uranium 115 for personal use, and the community records 100.

    Susan play once a week and gathers 5 uranium 115. In total she salvaged 5, the community records 5, and though Susan's contribution is smaller than John, it is just what is needed to gather 2,000,000 uranium 115 therefore unlocking the 15% faster facility construction achievment.

    So Susan and John retain the awesomeness of single player turn based gaming, with a driven community cooperative effort to unlock a shared achievement.

    Once this stage is completed, the developers can release a new staged event.
    It could get interesting: Obtaining a total of 10,000 encrypted data fragments from successful offensive alien base attacks, to locate and return Sid Meier's, who happens to be the XCOM diplomat who identifies aliens imposed as government, therefore unlocking additional government funding.

    Staged content maintains that loved "turned based - be the good guys - control all your heroes and facilities" glory, providing a community driven goal, that is within the developers scope and resources, otherwise daunting in a full multi-player imposing conflict between players. Lets not go down the route of player versus player, or player with player against AI competing for resources, or player divides heroes and resources with another player for the sake against AI.

    Majority of multi-player games provide only a sense of multi-player. In fact feel more single player where everyone does their own thing and can inspect other players around them: You are a level 1 ranger, quest in a linear fashion, trade with a level 60 or use the auction house. All that's left after every quest is done is pvp. Developers than have to continue to develop content to keep up to the grinder level speeder and that is a daunting task.

    Staged content means all players cooperatively work towards unlocking an acheivement.

    This idea was inspired by firefallthegame.com by this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFcEW5nyGI

  13. #13
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    Civ 5 is a massively popular game, and you can actually play through a 'campaign' in a relatively short period of time. Now decrease the amount of people playing by several fold and you will have your final number that might play XCom MP. Most people (that's just fact) don't have time or care about setting up a 3 month long campaign.

    Put another way, would you delay the game for 6 months to get a MP feature? Hell no. Would you give up 6 months worth of features/polishing for MP ? Hell no. Nothing is free and the development time is better spent elsewhere. And finally, the nail in the coffin is would more people buy it if there was multiplayer? Of course not (not appreciably so). And that final question is all the publisher really cares about in the end when deciding to spend extra resources on a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Civ 5 is a massively popular game, and you can actually play through a 'campaign' in a relatively short period of time. Now decrease the amount of people playing by several fold and you will have your final number that might play XCom MP. Most people (that's just fact) don't have time or care about setting up a 3 month long campaign.

    Put another way, would you delay the game for 6 months to get a MP feature? Hell no. Would you give up 6 months worth of features/polishing for MP ? Hell no. Nothing is free and the development time is better spent elsewhere. And finally, the nail in the coffin is would more people buy it if there was multiplayer? Of course not (not appreciably so). And that final question is all the publisher really cares about in the end when deciding to spend extra resources on a game.
    Thats your opinion your entitled to it, but I dont see how you can say would more people buy it if there was multiplayer! I told a friend about it the other day and when he asked if its multiplayer i said no....and he told me he doesnt care much for single player games. So I mean I don't see how you can say that.....when I know of several friends who prefer multiplayer games.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Civ 5 is a massively popular game, and you can actually play through a 'campaign' in a relatively short period of time. Now decrease the amount of people playing by several fold and you will have your final number that might play XCom MP. Most people (that's just fact) don't have time or care about setting up a 3 month long campaign.

    Put another way, would you delay the game for 6 months to get a MP feature? Hell no. Would you give up 6 months worth of features/polishing for MP ? Hell no. Nothing is free and the development time is better spent elsewhere. And finally, the nail in the coffin is would more people buy it if there was multiplayer? Of course not (not appreciably so). And that final question is all the publisher really cares about in the end when deciding to spend extra resources on a game.
    I agree that I wouldn't want the game to be delayed JUST so they can implement multiplayer but that's not likely to happen since they've already announced a release date so whatever is in, is in.

    What makes you think fewer people will be playing XCOM multiplayer or otherwise? Also what makes you believe the only multiplayer would be a campaign mode rather than just a quick battle mode?

    More on point, if multiplayer was already in the game and no further development time would be taken to implement/polish/whatever it would you still be against it being in the game? If so, why? That's what I think is being asked in the OP.

    Last point, and please don't take this as me just trying to be a jerk, I really am trying to help. Saying something is fact without providing data or evidence to support that claim does nothing to convince others of the validity of your point. If you're just saying you believe something to be fact then that's fine but I'm still going to ask you why you believe this thing to be fact, I'm a very curious person.

    *smoke grenade at the ready!*

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    amen! I'm just glad I get to play this game before long. The anticipation is killing me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Civ 5 is a massively popular game, and you can actually play through a 'campaign' in a relatively short period of time. Now decrease the amount of people playing by several fold and you will have your final number that might play XCom MP. Most people (that's just fact) don't have time or care about setting up a 3 month long campaign.

    Put another way, would you delay the game for 6 months to get a MP feature? Hell no. Would you give up 6 months worth of features/polishing for MP ? Hell no. Nothing is free and the development time is better spent elsewhere. And finally, the nail in the coffin is would more people buy it if there was multiplayer? Of course not (not appreciably so). And that final question is all the publisher really cares about in the end when deciding to spend extra resources on a game.
    Firstly you have to look at it another way. Would people not buy it because it doesnt have multiplay. The answer i would say is a rather resounding yes. To look at another thread about modding. People have already stated that they will not be buying the game if it doesnt have modding tools on the pc. I have come across multiple games in my time that people were excited to play then found out a feature like online play/ multi-play/co-op, hell even modding were not in the game and then done a complete uturn on buying it. The coop feature could be an update or a DLC as if its not in the game now i can tell you that it wont be at launch, since the release date has been set, and to paraphrase you sir, and here is the final nail in the coffin, if such a feature was added to the game and it still came out on the 9th Oct/12th Oct would it effect you? I would say that the answer would be a large resounding no. Because you could just ignore it. Would it effect me, and the answer would be a large resounding yes, as i could play with my mates that live in the US, Australia etc that i see once every 3 to 4 years that will defiantly be getting the game (Well thats if Australia gets it as there are so many games band from there is mental ).

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    Oh I agree that people wouldn't buy a certain game if it lacked certain features (MP, modding, etc.) But this is not any game. It's XCom. And people are buying it for the SP experience. The modding thing is simply a response to the fact that there may be aspects of it not close enough to the original, hence people wanting to mod it into that game. And I can fully understand that and see where the motivation for not buying it unless that feature is included. But I don't see the MP draw given the amount of coding they would need to do. Again, if they end up releasing it, then you can point to this thread and show me how wrong I was. But so far, I have been right every time I don't blame some people for wanting it (again, I didn't say no one would use it) but that it's not enough for them to justify it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    and he told me he doesnt care much for single player games. So I mean I don't see how you can say that.....when I know of several friends who prefer multiplayer games.
    I prefer multiplayer games too. But I bet your friend never played the original Xcom, so he has no idea what the experience is going to be like or what the developers are aiming for.

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    Sure, a co-op system would be nice. But I don't want resources that could be used to make the single player better wasted on it. So, choosing between more maps and possibly more aliens versus being able to play with someone else, I'd choose the former. Simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    Oh I agree that people wouldn't buy a certain game if it lacked certain features (MP, modding, etc.) But this is not any game. It's XCom. And people are buying it for the SP experience. The modding thing is simply a response to the fact that there may be aspects of it not close enough to the original, hence people wanting to mod it into that game. And I can fully understand that and see where the motivation for not buying it unless that feature is included. But I don't see the MP draw given the amount of coding they would need to do. Again, if they end up releasing it, then you can point to this thread and show me how wrong I was. But so far, I have been right every time I don't blame some people for wanting it (again, I didn't say no one would use it) but that it's not enough for them to justify it.
    First off I wanna give props to you for the correct use of "hence." I can't tell you how often I see people writing "hence why."

    I don't think it's a matter of who's right and who's wrong honestly. It sounds like you're saying you wouldn't mind MP being in the game but that you simply don't think the devs had/have time to get it in, is that right?

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    the games been in development for 4 years with a team of 60 and they never had time to fit it in?
    Btw katscan you have been wrong on many occasions - you just think your right all the time lol :-)
    As for a multiplayer game that goes on for months(not that it would be that long) many people love long evolved games like that my freind - far to many games around that have a 2 minute culture and are never touched again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katscan View Post
    I prefer multiplayer games too. But I bet your friend never played the original Xcom, so he has no idea what the experience is going to be like or what the developers are aiming for.
    Your right he never played the original and he missed out on a great game, but im sure it would help people realize how special the game is...even if they play for multiplayer. whatever gets new players to give it a chance. I literally tell everyone one of my friends about this game to help support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    Your right he never played the original and he missed out on a great game, but im sure it would help people realize how special the game is...even if they play for multiplayer. whatever gets new players to give it a chance. I literally tell everyone one of my friends about this game to help support it.
    Thats my point to mate. Unfortunately we live in a gaming culture dominated by online play, and now people are looking for more out of there games than back in the pre-broadband days. People want extra features to extend on the game play. To not have a co-op mode or pvp mode in a game would turn a lot of new players to xcom off. As people want to play the campaign a few times then try it a different way. Would i like to see co-op in the game, yes, would i like to see pvp one of matches in the game, not bothered as wouldnt us it. but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be in the game as some people would like to see it. You just need to play something like Warcraft to see this. I played solo when i use to play, most of my other mates were big raiders, and thats all they did and one of them was a pvp nut. He spent most of his time in battle grounds. all the same game and multiple choices of play style. It's a fact of present day gaming, that people want choice. Will one aspect be more popular than another? yes. Should that mean that the other choice should not be in a game? no. Thats like saying that activision release the next call of duty game and there is no campaign because 90% of the player base only play pvp. They would never do that because the would loose 10% of the revenue if the dropped the campaign. More options means more income for the developers and more income means more chance of a sequel, DLC and patch support.

    So yes i am for adding new feature to a game to attract new players and make the game a success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SupernovaXL View Post
    No thanks co-op. Great on other games but not here, you have to be on your own in the dark with your headphones on. It's hard to pee in your pants with someone else screaming at you down the mic
    perfect (and humorous) explanation & reasoning against co-op in this game 100% agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    I dont see why multiplayer or coop couldnt be included down the road.... would that affect anyone who doesnt want to play those online with others? No!
    Programmer resources going into coding netcode are programmer resources who aren't going into fixing bugs in the main game. (Or making DLC if coop is a postrelease thing.) Personally, I'd rather have more SP content and/or fixed bugs.

    Honestly I think the biggest reason why some people don't necessarily want multiplayer, pvp specifically, is because taking the time to balance it correctly will take development time away from the single player experience. Co-op though I'm at a loss about why someone would be 100% against it since it seems like it would be really easy to implement and code, just a guess I really have no idea. I would be interested to hear exactly why someone who is against co-op is so against it though.
    Getting decent, working netcode is a huge undertaking.

    .
    I understand what you mean and I want the game to be the best it possibly can be, but it would attract new players that dont enjoy single player, which means more revenue...which could mean more xcom games.
    I don't really think this is the kind of game targeted towards people who don't play single player. Strategy games in general aren't, usually. Exceptions for Starcraft and the like.

    but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be in the game as some people would like to see it.
    If they put in everything that some people would like to see, we'll lots of silly things.

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    I know what you mean facehugger but you should never limit your consumer base if your in the business to make money. They created a turn based game.... shouldnt be limited to single player just because your trying to appeal to people who only enjoy single player. That doesnt mean any sense....the single player will always be there, so I guess I dont understand the reasoning your suggesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickL2005 View Post
    I know what you mean facehugger but you should never limit your consumer base if your in the business to make money. They created a turn based game.... shouldnt be limited to single player just because your trying to appeal to people who only enjoy single player. That doesnt mean any sense....the single player will always be there, so I guess I dont understand the reasoning your suggesting.
    Noone will buy a turn based game just because it has multiplayer.... Really what group of gamers would they cater to with a multiplayer mode? Outside of our community here most gamers don't even know about xcom.

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    Co-op is a good idea.. but there are some severe issues with that.

    For one let's imagine a situation:
    You and your friend are playing co-op. You have several missions to choose and go on a "VIP extraction" (for example) and your friend goes to a Terror mission.
    You have your A-team perform the extration in 4 turn and 15 actual gameplay minutes...
    And your frien has a stalemate in his terror mission/ He can and will win eventuelly, brobably losing a man or two, so he will not quit (or the casualties already taken will be in vain.. plu don't forget the loot!) but he will play this mission for 2 hours straight. And that means you're stuck for more than hour and a half with no ability to do anything... just browse your techlist, and wach your troops drinking in the bar. Will that be fun?

    then again, will the sattelite system be shared?
    Will sniper's "Squad view" ability work with your friend's LoS?

    Those are just technical issues... and on top of it - there is also Ideological issue! In X-Com you play a "Last stand" team. Not just one of several orgainasation. It is important to the atmosphere of the game to knoe that there is no one but you to save the earth.

  30. #30
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    I think that co-op could work. Don’t know how exactly it would be, but I think there are some realizable / playable options.

    In the good old times my friends and me used to sit around a single computer and play games together, even if that meant one guy was playing a singleplayer game and the three others would only watch and make smartass comments.
    Even later when some more of us got their own computers we would play countless hours that way.

    XCOM I played together with a good friend of mine. We rotated on the tactical missions and discussed what to research / produce. We argued a lot and yelled at each other during the tactical missions when one was going to ruin the squad.

    I can imagine that it would be fun to play the new XCOM in a similar manner. Playing with a divided squad and yelling at each other for support over the voice chat. Making sarcastic comments about the playing skill of my friend just seconds before my beloved Support gets plasma to the face.

  31. #31
    Well I said it in the other thread already but the easiest way to implement co-op is just make it so that the host runs the campaign and you can toggle which soldiers you want your buddy to run and which units you control. Then when a tactical missions plays you control those units and he controls the ones you've designated him to control. It's drop in and out friendly so if he leaves you just regain control of the units he was running. Once you're out of tactical mission you're back in control again.

    I find the argument that it takes too many resorces to do this, it's too hard to implement, etc. kind of weak. If they wanted to do it they could and if they kept it that simple it would be relatively easy as the multiplayer isn't causing any core mechanics to be rewritten. The whole I don't want my shiny new game delayed so they can build this or for every hour of coding spent on co-op they could have spent further refining single player is not as valid as it sounds either. How many great, totally polished games have exceptionally robust multiplayer included? There's no evidence that making even the simplest form of multiplayer would cause single player to suffer. I mean it could, but it just as easily could not. It really depends on the production team and I'm pretty sure Faraxis is a first rate team here.

    Finally the whole argument that Xcom or even strategy games as a genre are supposed to be single player, intended to be single player and should always remain single player is debateable too. How many things about this game have changed with the times? Turn based has been a little changed to something that works better and is more streamlined for today. Resources have been streamlined to make things less micromanged. This game has already changed with the times in some ways and multiplayer is huge these days. The strategy market may not be known for multiplayer games but that's more than likely because there's not many that have it, and those that do (Starcraft, Civ games, etc.) have been quite popular. Cereberal gamers are more likely to play strategy games and those are also the kind of gamers that enjoy strategizing with a friend. The kind of people that play these games aren't the Halo kiddies that play in a room of 16 people who never talk to each other and walk around tea bagging fallen foes while constantly churning out the respawn meat grinder. There are people who love the idea of playing with friends but don't like that kind of game play and want something MORE from their multiplayer experience. I disagree that there's just a handful of them either.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notorious_BLT View Post
    First off I wanna give props to you for the correct use of "hence." I can't tell you how often I see people writing "hence why."

    I don't think it's a matter of who's right and who's wrong honestly. It sounds like you're saying you wouldn't mind MP being in the game but that you simply don't think the devs had/have time to get it in, is that right?
    First off, LOL. Secondly, yea, that's right. I don't mind one way or the other, but I just don't want to see the game delayed or compromised (features removed or not fine tuned) in order to get MP in. I just don't see them doing it. And to do it on the back end, ie- DLC, would mean that they had to have thought about it ahead of time to make the code modular enough to make the transition. However, I am 99.9% sure they didn't do this, and therefore, we won't see a full MP campaign (quick battles or skirmishes might make an appearance).

  33. #33
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    Co-op mode option is something i would like to see in the game.

    There is alot of good and balanced things the developers can do to expand the XCom-EU experience, after the game is released.

    The developers could make some kind of expansion packs we could buy separately or in bundles.

    The player could choose to install the pack/expansion they want. This is a way to not affect the playstyle of others, even if you choose not install any pack/expansion. Maybe good examples of this kind of pack/expansion updates are Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft. This is because if you don't have now all expansions, you still can play with players that have expansions installed.


    I believe that XCom TFTD could be another Full Game released by Firaxis and 2K Games.

    It would be amazing if you could install XCom TFTD, merging it with the XCom EU that you bought previously. So you could defend both Land and Water at same time. If at that point they start to use the Unreal Engine 4, then I believe that many more possibilities could emerge from this already incredible game.

    Imagine if you have one Skyranger for Land tactical missions, and one Triton for Underwater tactical missions. :P

    You could then have 2 teams of 4 or 6 in each transporter (perhaps you could have 8 with XCom TFTD installed, as the challenges gets even more higher). One team for land missions and other team for underwater missions.

    New Classes could appear and new ways of dynamic movement could happen underwater, like swimming movements. Maybe some shark or octopus can try attack the aliens and humans.


    Some suggestions to the co-op mode, if co-op mode is added and TFTD is installed:
    • Each player controls a base and can be in charge of Land, Underwater missions or share/split all the tasks.
    • Each time a player Log-in the Host Server PC, his/her base is enabled and difficulty is proportionally increased, based on the ammount of active players.


    • Each time a player Log-out the Host Server PC, his/her base is disabled and difficulty proportionally decreases, based on the ammount of active players.


    • You could set Computer AI to play at your side or against you. Example:

      2 (XCom Human Players) Vs 1 (Alien Human Player) and 1 (Alien Computer AI)

      Or any combination (Human Player/Computer AI) to balance the ammount of players that are present at the momment.
    • If the players can choose Alien side, then could be nice to have at least 6 bases at each side (6 XCom bases on Earth vs 6 Alien bases on Mars)


    • Both the Aliens and XCom players could need to evolve their bases, train their human/alien soldiers, research technologies, acquire resources, complete tactical missions, defend themselves, but each one in their own unique way.


    • The Aliens could try to attack Earth and XCom bases, and the Humans could try to attack Mars and Alien bases.


    Some examples of contents the Developers could make and sell:
    XCOM Maps/Missions Pack
    Large set of high quality handmade maps/missions types to increase even more the challenges of the game. The maps could be medium/large/very large and have new types of terrains. The maps/missions could be well balanced and have more alien on them.

    To me, the more the aliens on each missions the better. This is more difficulty sometimes, but this increase the challenge and can help us evolve our strategy skills. This too can increase the awards you receive at end of the missions.

    For Terror missions could be nice to have a way to escort to exit zones, any civilian you found or is still alive. Perhaps some aliens could use civilians as shields, so you need to use your best strategies to save them.

    Put your sniper to hit aliens from afar, use stealth operations with assault troops, mind attack them with psionic perks.
    Arsenal Pack
    • New Human/Alien weapons/technologies
    • New Human/Alien SHIV
    • New Human/Alien aircrafts/spaceships/upgrades
    • New Human/Alien armor/clothes/itens
    Classes Pack
    • Engineer/Demolisher Class (drive/repair/support SHIV - Expert with machines, traps and explosives)
    • Any other type of class could emerge to Humans or the Aliens.


    Some examples of contents the Developers could make and add to the current game, if they aren't there yet after release:
    • Game Fixes / Updates
    • Mod Support


    Being able to choose how to play the game is something unique. I remember about playing some MS-DOS and Windows based games, and they had some kind of co-op or multiplayer (LAN/IPX/TCP). To me it did not affected in any way the single player experience, and i had played many times single player mode.

    See below some games that have co-op or multiplayer features:
    Warcraft
    Starcraft
    Diablo
    Dune
    Heroes of Might and Magic

    Many times my friends and I played games togheter using LAN, Hotseat or TCP/IP, it is very fun.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodrigo-xc View Post
    Co-op mode option is something i would like to see in the game.

    There is alot of good and balanced things the developers can do to expand the XCom-EU experience, after the game is released.

    The developers could make some kind of expansion packs we could buy separately or in bundles.

    The player could choose to install the pack/expansion they want. This is a way to not affect the playstyle of others, even if you choose not install any pack/expansion. Maybe good examples of this kind of pack/expansion updates are Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft. This is because if you don't have now all expansions, you still can play with players that have expansions installed.


    I believe that XCom TFTD could be another Full Game released by Firaxis and 2K Games.

    It would be amazing if you could install XCom TFTD, merging it with the XCom EU that you bought previously. So you could defend both Land and Water at same time. If at that point they start to use the Unreal Engine 4, then I believe that many more possibilities could emerge from this already incredible game.

    Imagine if you have one Skyranger for Land tactical missions, and one Triton for Underwater tactical missions. :P

    You could then have 2 teams of 4 or 6 in each transporter (perhaps you could have 8 with XCom TFTD installed, as the challenges gets even more higher). One team for land missions and other team for underwater missions.

    New Classes could appear and new ways of dynamic movement could happen underwater, like swimming movements. Maybe some shark or octopus can try attack the aliens and humans.


    [table="width: 80%, class: grid, align: center"]
    [
    One word: Impossible.
    Sorry but I have never before seen this level of customization and multiplayer variety in ANY game.
    I'm pretty sure it's impossible to pull that off in an expansion when the game wasn't already designed to have those features beforehand. That would be a coding nightmare and a huge time- and moneysink of a project.

  35. #35
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    @iceycat: Your toggle control on/off is a pretty good idea. I can't see an issue with the implementation, unless there's a code glitch somewhere. But your idea, to be fair, is not the "two bases/two armies" idea that the OP suggests.

    Mod it when it comes out.

    @OP: Let me answer your suggestion honestly and fairly.

    I'm not voting no because I think it "wouldn't be cool". It would totally be cool. I'm voting no because you (and others) suggest that it wouldn't get in the way. That if I don't like it, I can simply choose not to play it.

    You are wrong.

    You're not wrong to want what you want; you are wrong to suggest that adding MP of any kind wouldn't change the planning, the money spent, or the number of dudes required to finish the game.

    If you sincerely want an idea of how hard it is to make a game, go pick up Garry's Mod (if you are a PC gamer) or LittleBigPlanet 1 or 2 (if you have a PS3). To make a decent, 5-minute platformer on LBP for only one player takes about 80 hours of work. 40 of those hours, roughly, is you and your friends playing the same level over and over, trying to break it.

    Adding multiplayer changes everything. I have proven this factually, to my satisfaction, because I have attempted it (on super wee scale) myself. Before you can say that I'm an amateur, so my experience doesn't count: Mass Effect 3's release date was pushed back 6 mysterious months. What did they announce after the pushback? Multiplayer.

    "Multiplayer" is not an effing checkbox. It is a major design choice that has a long, storied history of utterly changing (and sometimes ruining) single player games.

    I'm not against this two base idea. But:
    *Now you have to balance the aliens for multiple opponents. Random "alien missions" for each group have to increase, and now they have to make sure that Player 1's aliens don't necessarily spawn on top of P2's aliens.
    *If it's two bases, is it two players divvying up two tactical missions that spawn at the same time? If so, why are they playing together?
    *If it's two teams versus one map of aliens, is that double the soldiers? Double the aliens? Do you now have to design bigger co-op maps?
    *What happens if one player drops out, or is defeated?

    I don't want that addition because I would rather have an unmolested, base SP game. I can't see an argument with iceycat's idea, but you seemed to want more than that.
    Last edited by coyote_blue; 06-15-2012 at 06:34 AM. Reason: removed a "proof" story because tl; dr

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alucardex View Post
    One word: Impossible.
    Sorry but I have never before seen this level of customization and multiplayer variety in ANY game.
    I'm pretty sure it's impossible to pull that off in an expansion when the game wasn't already designed to have those features beforehand. That would be a coding nightmare and a huge time- and moneysink of a project.
    I'd have to agree. Your feature set looks like Daikatana's design document. I mean that in the sounds-awesome-but-unattainable sense, not in the came-out-late-turned-out-to-suck sense.

    There's one big thing that people who want to play as aliens always ignore. The second a human being can play the aliens, the mystery is sucked completely out of them. They go from "unknowable creepy menace" to "my friend Jake" or "some douche in another country". You may not care about that sacrifice, but I do.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by coyote_blue View Post
    I'd have to agree. Your feature set looks like Daikatana's design document. I mean that in the sounds-awesome-but-unattainable sense, not in the came-out-late-turned-out-to-suck sense.

    There's one big thing that people who want to play as aliens always ignore. The second a human being can play the aliens, the mystery is sucked completely out of them. They go from "unknowable creepy menace" to "my friend Jake" or "some douche in another country". You may not care about that sacrifice, but I do.
    I agree with you in "some part" of what you said.

    I believe that kind of mystery can always be present, depending on who is writing the history behind the aliens and humans.

    Sometime ago I did see some images of the sectoid using chains as slaves, as if they where under control of other alien species more strong than they appear to be.

    Perhaps this is only one of the many ways to say that the mystery can always exist, even if we see or experience it. Sometimes when we think we knew all about something, we are only discovering a little bit of it.

    Sometimes even the human history is unknown, even when we study it alot over the time.


    Probably many things could only have a chance to be included using DLC, Modding or most probably when a whole new game is released by Firaxis and 2K Games. (XCom TFTD)

    Perhaps they can even think about building over Unreal Engine 4.
    Last edited by rodrigo-xc; 06-15-2012 at 08:17 AM.

  38. #38
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    I agree co-op would be awesome. I too used to hot seat around a ZX Spectrum playing initially Rebelstar Raiders co-op in the mid/late 80's (e.g I take Capt Krennon, he takes Joe Capricorn). Taking a few soldiers each for a mission and sharing a victory made it so much sweeter. I would much prefer this mode than the recently announced PVP, particularly as they are allowing aliens to be playable. Here is my rationale and some ideas for implementing it.

    * If aliens are playable in PVP it will expose their inner workings to the player
    * PVP could be implemented in game as a simulator that is accesible from the base management screens. Only those alien races that have been researched are usable in this sim as AI controlled enemies. Players can use the sim room to fight each others squads or team up to fight aliens cooperatively.
    * This approach limits the scope of coop for release (to sims in the base) but paves the way for co-op campaigns as DLC
    * Fighting aliens together helps us become better humans and tends to generate a less testosterone-fuelled community of PVP'ers foaming at the mouth to prove how alpha they are.
    Last edited by Zeeker; 08-13-2012 at 05:39 AM. Reason: typo

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeppermintShore View Post
    If you vote can you put your reason why? Rather than clicking yes or no or nether. So that people can respond to it.

    I have copied this from the multi-player forum as its not about multi-player but co-op play and feel that multi-player doesnt have a place in XCOM, while co-op could have a place. Here is my argument from the multi-player thread

    Most of the people in the multi-player thread are against, or not fused about multi-player. In my opinion this could be down to one factor.....the original was single player and why add it to the new version. Xcom is about the single player experience.

    Well i for one would love to see it in the game in some way. I'm not talking mmo style pve, or xcom vs alien one off battles pvp but more co-op. Two players, two bases, sharing research and attacking the aliens from two fronts. You could then team up for missions. 2 squads on the same mission. When ever a mission comes up you both have to chance to sign up for the mission. This would increase the chances of success in larger missions or it could be an invite system. I shoot down a alien ship and send my skyranger in, there is a button that allows me to send an invite to my coop mate to join me. There are pros and cons to the invite. Pros you have better chance of success as the aliens are attacked by two teams, cons all the alien tech is divided meaning you cant sell off as much, reducing your income also slowing down the advancements of you team via experience. Therefore slowing advancement in the game financially and in the development of you squads, but acceleration you research as each base could research different branches and share thier knowledge. This would mean they you would have to play a balancing game of coop play and single game play so you don't fall behind in team advancement and finances while flying ahead with reasearch.

    As for the end game mission; this could be increased in difficulty or amount of aliens you face to balance it out so its not a cake walk.

    The reason i like the idea of co-op is when i used to play on my Amiga 1200 my mate used to come around to my house and we would half the soldiers. At the start of the game, we would have 4 soldiers each and order in 2 more (one each) and using the name editor delete the last names and replace them with X1 or X2 with the following after S, O,H G & P standing for Sniper, Overwatch, Heavy Weapons, Grenadier and when we researched it Psi, based on the skills they had over 50 (70 for grenadiers and 75 for Psi). I played many a great game using the method back in the mid 90's. So surely in this day and age with the advent of the internet and high speed connection, make Xcom a co-op game would not be to difficult. I know that my mate was looking forward to playing Xcom with me when it comes out, that was until we found out the squad is maxed out at 6 soldiers. That means 3 each. Going co-op would allow for people to play the game like we use to and expand on that game style and allow the developers to put in some intresting co-op exclusive content like lager maps and unique missions designed for co-op. They could also ramp up the alien sighting by 80% so that single player single play missions are still there and you can still run co-op missions in the game. This also leaves you with the option that if one of you bases gets attacked and taken out, then the remaining player continues on in single player mode.

    The reason that i am behind the idea of co-op is choice. I someone wants to play co-op then they can, and if they want to play single player they can. This would appeal to an additional dynamic in the gaming world that would increase the sales of the game and in turn bring in more money for the developer, which would increase the likely hood of DLC, expansions & squeals (Terror from the Deep springs to mind. Love underwater gameplay).

    Would love to see what peoples response to this post is? Negative or Positive? You decide.

    PS i apologies for any typos and things that make no sense as i am sitting out side on my laptop in the sun and the screen is quite hard to see so couldn't proof reed it correctly.
    Cooperatove Multiplayer is Multiplayer, the term meaning more than one player. Regardless competitive multiplayer, ala team deathmatch style is not a problem, a co-op mode could be fun, and i would play iot as well, but i wouldn't want it at the expense of what is already included.

  40. #40
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    I'd like that but it would work only if you share one team's members, maps and opposition wouldn't be optimized for multiple teams. Think how absurd L4D servers with 20 survivors become. It'd be like that.

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