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Thread: Can you make nations rejoin the war effort?

  1. #1

    Can you make nations rejoin the war effort?

    We all know from the news and based on original how nations might drop out of the project if you perform too badly.

    What always annoyed me was that there was no way to get them back aka if you finally manage to cover their territory properly that there'd be no way to show that nation that X-Com was on the upswing and would properly defend them.

    Imo in a free game the mechanics should optimally always work both ways: You can muck things up but you can work to recover the lost territory. So losing the USA to a mucked up terror/infiltration missions you might be hanging in the ropes but some 600 days later you managed to rebalance the lost income and increase the capability of your forces enough to convince the US to rejoin.

    From abscence of any info I assume that nations can only drop out and there aren't any quest/mission chains that might reincrease the relations enough again for them to rethink it? I would love if the later were the case.

  2. #2
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    If I recall correctly you cannot get countries to rejoin you and tell the aliens to bugger off. I wouldn't doubt that the modding community will create a mod to change that though.

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    http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...08#post1596408

    6:23 - "countries can leave the project, and they are gone for good" - Jake

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    @OP

    While it may not be 100% logical that it's impossible to get nations back, the game has been balanced around the assumption it's not possible.

    One positive to this method. You know when you DO lose a nation, you're one step (or 12.5%) closer to losing. Always. The inability to get them back will add to the tension and stress of losing them.

    Having a back and forth method of control would be neat. As NotoriousBLT said, you'll likely see a mod that works this way. Now that you've brought up the idea, I think it's interesting enough that I'd give such a mod a try.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Notorious_BLT View Post
    If I recall correctly you cannot get countries to rejoin you and tell the aliens to bugger off. I wouldn't doubt that the modding community will create a mod to change that though.
    assuming such a feature is moddable.

    It is mainly a question of how strategic alien and player missions work. Are they the random spawns of the original or are their strategic goals by the aliens e.g. to get you kicked out of a continent making your resistance far more difficult? Then in reverse there should be strategic measures to prevent or roll back such an attempt. Obviously it should be very expensive to do so.

    Most likely the income hole due to a major nation dropping out can already cause a downward spiral of being less and less capable to keep the rest happy.

  6. #6
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    You couldn't get them back in the original. As Lefty pointed out it has been said that they won't be coming back in XCEU.

    Keeping everybody happy is part of the game. For some reason Australia never seemed to like me much in the original. They always left me.

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    I often took funding hits from nation in the original but part of the game was to try to keep them until I was on the upswing and had better coverage and then they would increase funding again (but then again I was selling plasma cannons to the russian mob and didnt really need them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by chethecat View Post
    You couldn't get them back in the original. As Lefty pointed out it has been said that they won't be coming back in XCEU.

    Keeping everybody happy is part of the game. For some reason Australia never seemed to like me much in the original. They always left me.
    And yet, Russia NEVER leaves, according to the UFOpaedia. (The website, not the actual in-game UFOpedia)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almainyny View Post
    And yet, Russia NEVER leaves, according to the UFOpaedia. (The website, not the actual in-game UFOpedia)
    Probably why they are doing a "lose half, lose the game" approach this time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RusVal View Post
    Probably why they are doing a "lose half, lose the game" approach this time around.
    Exactly. Some of the countries seemed to have odd expectations. Russia had a "WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER" attitude, while others would just buddy up with the aliens ASAP. (I'm looking at YOU, Canada, giving me only a few grand!)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almainyny View Post
    Exactly. Some of the countries seemed to have odd expectations. Russia had a "WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER" attitude, while others would just buddy up with the aliens ASAP. (I'm looking at YOU, Canada, giving me only a few grand!)
    I guess that's why I never worried about Australia leaving -- their participation was minimal compared to other places. Not to mention I usually set up a base for nothing but cranking out Laser Cannon to sell for huge profits so I didn't really need to worry about funding. I don't think that'll be an option. Well, since there's only one base I'm sure. But I suspect selling off surplus isn't going to work the same way.

    I am very curious to see how the threat meter is going to work in XCEU.

  12. #12
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    It looks like we can lose factions very easily too. I remember reading in a review that we had a rating out of 5 for each faction. Choosing the NY mission over China meant that we dropped from a 5 to a 3 with them. Looks like we will be getting a real challenge with this one. No 'just cruise my way though' with this one, sounds like we will loose some factions.

    The fact that we can’t get them back might make for some challenges. The times in Apoc where you lost support of transteller (I think it was) so it was game over. They were the ones that carted all your supplies around the city. No supplies mid game.... game fail, restart.

    It won’t be as bad in the new game though as the factions give money and support. Losing one will just mean a drop in support not a game ender. I hope the interactions with the new factions run deep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzD View Post
    It looks like we can lose factions very easily too. I remember reading in a review that we had a rating out of 5 for each faction. Choosing the NY mission over China meant that we dropped from a 5 to a 3 with them. Looks like we will be getting a real challenge with this one. No 'just cruise my way though' with this one, sounds like we will loose some factions.

    The fact that we canít get them back might make for some challenges. The times in Apoc where you lost support of transteller (I think it was) so it was game over. They were the ones that carted all your supplies around the city. No supplies mid game.... game fail, restart.

    It wonít be as bad in the new game though as the factions give money and support. Losing one will just mean a drop in support not a game ender. I hope the interactions with the new factions run deep.
    You know, I had a thought I put in another thread and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me.

    I think a the new mission types we see will be replacements for the base defense mission. Missions like "rescue the VIP" probably carry a big penalty to the panic meter making them highly critical to win - just like a base defense mission was. Often you could recover, but too often it wasn't possible to from a lost base defense mission; turning it into a win/lose mission. The devs want to move away from that style of game.

    Losing the mission in this new version will still penalize you by sending you closer to a loss but because it doesn't affect your resource strength at all, it doesn't have that continuing penalty that losing a base/men/radar-site did.
    By leaving you intact after it roshambos you, the game still makes the mission vital without that risk of pushing your game into the abyss.

    I like their design philosophy. Because of it, I think hardcore will be great in this version - no single loss will be bad enough to "require" scum-saving.

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    That's how I am looking at the new game too. Just hope it plays out that way.

    Losing a mission will still hurt us but no one mission will be a game ender on its own. It will be a slow death by 1000 pin pricks rather than a sledge hammer hit. If it works how I think/hope it will, each mission/faction loss will make it harder in the next mission. You are that little further behind in research or just don’t have the cash for the next weapon etc. It will kind of weaken us for the end game, rather than just getting the best weapons and cruising to the end. We might have the good weapons but no $$ to make them or buy them.

    But on the same line if we play well and win missions we can drag factions back on side and get the support again. I am very interested to see the balance once we start losing factions support. I can see if we get China and USA down level 1 a mission pop up saying chose between a terror mission in NY and a UFO in Beijing... Either way you will drop a faction.

  15. #15
    I just hope that they won't use that annoying mechanic where, no matter how will you played, nations will eventually leave for the new gray colored overlords.

    Having choices? Fine. Having a sense of urgency? No problem. Screwing you no matter how will you play? I have a problem with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaide View Post
    I just hope that they won't use that annoying mechanic where, no matter how will you played, nations will eventually leave for the new gray colored overlords.

    Having choices? Fine. Having a sense of urgency? No problem. Screwing you no matter how will you play? I have a problem with.
    They've laboured the point that "permanent loss is ok in games as long as the players know the rules" a few times in the interview vids, mostly when talking about the death of troopers; but its not a huge step of logic to apply that mentality to the rest of the game inc losing funding nations... so I wouldn't be too worried.

  17. #17
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    Well as the alien weaponry breaks a part when they die it will be much more important to keep the funding nations happy....I guess I won't be putting up a production line to produce Hvy Lasers for the black marked in my second base!!!!

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    Not being able to get them back seems more realistic and better for gameplay. If i was spending 10 billion a year on xcom security and i was till robbed by youths i'd stop all contact with xcom.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Schuesseled View Post
    Not being able to get them back seems more realistic and better for gameplay. If i was spending 10 billion a year on xcom security and i was till robbed by youths i'd stop all contact with xcom.
    Napoleon would have loved that attitude... instead he had every country coming for him like the devil after a poor soul because just because resistance seems futile at one point it doesn't follow it always does. The countries would still hate the aliens more than an inept organization killing them.

    Maybe they'll work the aliens brainwashed the government plot into there. It'd still be more strategy if you could get them back.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangalores View Post
    It'd still be more strategy if you could get them back.
    It'd be more strategy to not lose them in the first place

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