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Thread: Where can I find what each civ is biased to in a spawn start?

  1. #1
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    Where can I find what each civ is biased to in a spawn start?

    As Aztecs its obvious I got lots of jungles.

    As Austria im noticing a lot of cattle..

    anyways, anyone know where I can find this out? a website? in the civ5 files?
    ?

  2. #2
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    It's in the Civ5Civilizations and Civ5Civilizations_Expansion XML files. The ones that exist are:

    England: Ocean
    Ottoman: Ocean
    Arabia: Desert
    Aztec: Jungle
    India: Grass
    Iroquois: Forest
    Russia: Tundra
    Egypt: Avoid Jungle + Forest
    Siam: Avoid Forest
    Songhai: Avoid Tundra
    Carthage: Ocean
    Spain: Ocean
    Celts: Forest
    Netherlands: Grass
    Mongolia: Plains
    Inca: Hills
    Polynesia: Ocean
    Denmark: Ocean

    Austria doesn't have a priority or an avoid.

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    poor russia hahahah, so nothing else exists with bias?
    thats all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    poor russia hahahah, so nothing else exists with bias?
    thats all?
    That's all the ones in the files. America used to have a river bias in Vanilla, but it's been commented out of the XML. If I didn't list a civ then it doesn't have a priority or an avoid.

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    I wonder why egypt avoids those forest? :P
    lol

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    This is great, thanks! I always wondered the same thing. I though it was based upon luxury resources as well though, not just tile type, so i am a bit surprised.

    i usually disable start bias anyway, unless i play as an ocean going cv, then it'd just be silly to start landlocked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disc78 View Post
    This is great, thanks! I always wondered the same thing. I though it was based upon luxury resources as well though, not just tile type, so i am a bit surprised.

    i usually disable start bias anyway, unless i play as an ocean going cv, then it'd just be silly to start landlocked.
    Ive noticed that luxury are random for any civ.
    But if you are not a ocean biased civ and you get crabs as a luxury.. you start landlocked or maybe 2-3 tiles from touching the coast..

    ive seen it happened at least 5-6 times, once to me.. and the others i saw it with other players, a few quick early game because they couldnt reach their luxuries..

    though, whales/pearls theres no problem you always start on coast with those guys.. but crabs, you dont.. if you arent ocean biased... had game today as Austria :P .. had to waste 2 turns to settle on coast to get my crabs.. it sucked because roman player beat me to an ancient ruined that used to be 3 tiles from my original capital spawn.. he also settled a city super close to my capital, and could have been 2-3 tiles from my original capital spawn.. it did slow me down..

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    I not noticed the crab thing. Silly, you should always start on coast if your luxury is sea based. But i often do start a couple of tiles from a river or coast, then waste a few turns moving to it before settling. Not ideal on king when you know your going to be behind anyway.

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    I play MP, so it depends not everyone is good/bad :P meaning idk if i will be behind or not :P

    Anyways I find it weird that Aztecs get jungles, when in reality they settled in the middle of the desert with a lake.. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    Anyways I find it weird that Aztecs get jungles, when in reality they settled in the middle of the desert with a lake.. lol
    The Jaguar gets a jungle-based combat bonus and someone needs a jungle-bias for diversity sake if nothing else.

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    The Netherlands gets grass bias? Not marsh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helsingborg View Post
    The Netherlands gets grass bias? Not marsh?
    Well Marsh does only occur on Grass.

    I think Arabia get the most stooged, a Desert start can be terrible, far worse than Tundra which at least produces something and has a good chance of nearby Deer.
    Should have an Oasis bias given the Bazaar's boost to them and the need for food at the start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oosh View Post
    The Jaguar gets a jungle-based combat bonus and someone needs a jungle-bias for diversity sake if nothing else.
    yeah i guess thats true, and maybe they didnt settle in junblge, but they probably fought in the jungles lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Oosh View Post
    Well Marsh does only occur on Grass.

    I think Arabia get the most stooged, a Desert start can be terrible, far worse than Tundra which at least produces something and has a good chance of nearby Deer.
    Should have an Oasis bias given the Bazaar's boost to them and the need for food at the start.
    Ive heard arabs desert bias is pretty good, oasis are a sure thing, with petra and desert folklore pantheon, their oasis are +3 food, +1 hammers, +1 faith +4 gold with bazaar.. since theres for sure at least 1 oasis in desert tiles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helsingborg View Post
    The Netherlands gets grass bias? Not marsh?
    Because there is no marsh bias programmed into the game, also no flood plains bias. I'm guessing both tiles are just rare enough that it wouldn't be feasible to program a specific bias for them that also meets all the other requirements of a civ start location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oosh View Post
    Should have an Oasis bias given the Bazaar's boost to them and the need for food at the start.
    Same thing with Oasis. There is no Oasis bias, the reason they have the desert bias is because Oasis spawn in Desert tiles.

    The start locations are chosen after the map is already generated, and your bias is also competing against all the other civ's biases. Plus there's a hierarchy of biases where ocean overrides river overrides terrain/feature(s) overrides avoid terrain/feature(s). Some features just don't have enough tiles generated for a real bias which also meets all the other requirements of a civ start location.

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    The Crab thing sounds like an oversight, probably when they added Crab as a Luxury Ressource they didn't remember to add the start tweak as well. Probably it's just a question of adding Crabs to whereever the coding is done for Whales and Pearls.

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    Plus desert start locations tend to have oases because start locations get a bit of buffing to balance against other start locations - so worse ones, by yields etc, get more buffing, and thus desert ones tend to get buffed - and one of the ways deserts get buffed is with oases. Also resources, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    Because there is no marsh bias programmed into the game, also no flood plains bias. I'm guessing both tiles are just rare enough that it wouldn't be feasible to program a specific bias for them that also meets all the other requirements of a civ start location.
    I guess it's a question of which order things are done - they could add a script that would change some grass tiles into Swamp after Dutch starting location has been determined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alcibiades View Post
    I guess it's a question of which order things are done - they could add a script that would change some grass tiles into Swamp after Dutch starting location has been determined.
    No good map script would do that as its making an exception for one case out of 34, and suddenly you're forcing it to accommodate something it already calculated for while also competing with resource number/location, resource terrain, and surrounding generated terrain/feature accommodations. The Polder is already extremely powerful and either you'd have to sacrifice more start location resources for more Polder tiles or have an unfair number of useful tiles if it was generated last.

    Also, there's no real reason to even give the Netherlands a Marsh bias. The Polder can't be built till Guilds, a Medieval tech. The start bias is primarily for your first city and to facilitate uniques that could affect the very early to early game. By the time you can build Polders you can already begin to choose to settle in areas with Marsh and Flood Plains tiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post

    Also, there's no real reason to even give the Netherlands a Marsh bias. The Polder can't be built till Guilds, a Medieval tech. The start bias is primarily for your first city and to facilitate uniques that could affect the very early to early game. By the time you can build Polders you can already begin to settle in areas with Marsh and Flood Plains tiles.
    you can always move your settler around :P

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    you can always move your settler around :P
    You'll generally have foudned more cities by the time you have the tech for Polders...

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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post
    Also, there's no real reason to even give the Netherlands a Marsh bias. The Polder can't be built till Guilds, a Medieval tech. The start bias is primarily for your first city and to facilitate uniques that could affect the very early to early game. By the time you can build Polders you can already begin to choose to settle in areas with Marsh and Flood Plains tiles.
    Good point, although you could say the same for some of the other civs (for instance Arabia and Oil).

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    Quote Originally Posted by istry555 View Post

    Also, there's no real reason to even give the Netherlands a Marsh bias. The Polder can't be built till Guilds, a Medieval tech. The start bias is primarily for your first city and to facilitate uniques that could affect the very early to early game. By the time you can build Polders you can already begin to choose to settle in areas with Marsh and Flood Plains tiles.
    I always had the impression that the Netherlands should go tall, since their unique ability does help if you have little land and little luxuries. How does these rare terrain spawn? Do they have a certain probability of spawning?

  23. #23
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    how do i get to this list !

    someone online doesnt believe me that bias is terrain, not resources..
    he claims that as russia he ALWAYS gets the iron and horses.. he says thats the russian bias and not tundra..

  24. #24
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    It's in the game XML.

    Now, a desert or tundra start bias does often lead to resource advantages, as those start locations are often buffed by resources because they're crap on the face of it.

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    Yes I know, I gave him the netherlands example, that the bias is grassland not marsh, but thats where marsh usually is at.

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