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Thread: Remake is inferior to original in every single way

  1. #1
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    Remake is inferior to original in every single way

    EDIT: I have reconsidered my position and this post remains only as a historical record of what originally started this thread

    Let me start with a few words. I was a huge fan of original. I played and completed X-Com 1, 2, 3, 4 countless number of times. I finished X-Com 1 ironman on superhuman at least thrice. I loved every single game of the series (up to 4). I was so happy about this remake, true to original, made by guys who loved the original etc etc. I watched every video, read every article. I heard they're going to go with 1 base, with absence of time units, but i hoped it will be for greater good. I heard they're going to make it for consoles too, but they promised separate interface for PC's so i hoped it wont affect PC interface. I was going to buy this game, even though i rarely do buy games, especially without trying them first.

    But then i installed Steam just to play one game - FTL - and saw a demo available for free.

    I played it.

    Unfortunately, every single hope was in vain...

    I will now makea detailed comparison of original to the remake, in order to give solid proof to my position.

    1. It begins at the start of the game. In the original, I could skip the intro. In the remake, I cannot. Wtf? Too much ego, guys? "How can the player not watch our company logo every time, its so beatiful!"

    Well, here you go, original gets a head start in list of features!

    2. You wanted to remake an original, stay true to it.... Tell me... Where did tha awesome x-com logo went, and why do we have this ugly insignia?... Okay, even if that's subjective, you're making an x-com game, true to the original.... Why not give it five difficulty levels and call them appropriately (novice...superhuman)?

    Way to kick every fan of the series in the nuts before he even started playin...

    3. Okay, what's this game called again? Is it "enemy unknown"? Then why the hell do we see our damn enemy right at the title screen, in the main menu? Yes, you could argue, that original had mutons in the intro, but i'm talking ingame models.

    In the original, you downed your first ufo and went in and had first contact and went like... What is that thing? And no way to zoom in, no way to see what is it holding... You cant even see its face if it's looking away from camera. And then it shoots you and kills your dude.... And another dude.... And after you finally kill it, you are curious and look at its corpse and go like "Eek!"... Or you may have learned that he's alive! "Oh my god we have a live one here, what do we do?"

    But in this "remake" you are familiarised with the enemy from the go. There it runs around the streets in circles, look at it. There you see it in your tutorial, you see what it can do and how deadly it is (while losing nothing, because this is supposed to happen, you know those 3 casualties are scripted and they do not really feel like losses)

    So by the time you're sent on your real mission, not really "unknown" anymore, is it?

    4. But even before we begin with the actual game.... What is this mouse? Whats with the delay? Wtf? I guess the game was made for consoles, and no matter what they said about separate interfaces, it shows that game was made for consoles, but man, such a delayed mouse pointer? Wtf? You cannot even change it anywhere! You're stuck with this slowpoke pointer for the whole game! What can i say?
    Original game increases its lead.

    5. Tutorial... Why this even starts in battlescape? Why are you forced to make stupid tactical desicions? (which x-com vet would send one guy rushing inside a building while other guys are more than a turn away and cannot shoot if an alien is inside?) Why dont you see whole interface at once and are locked in features (like, cannot zoom out)?

    Having a tutorial which you have to play through is so wrong for many reasons! Want to teach players who do not read manuals? Simple - make a well designed interface, good tooltips and a help button that shows an overlay like Diablo 2. Thats it! But let's break this down to exact points.

    6. Interface... Its horrible! Who designed this? You said you all played original game to the end... Well, in original game, i could understand every possible action i had without a tutorial, and i could control everything with my mouse! In this game, i cannot rotate camera without a keyboard! I try to zoom out and instead, i get a change of levels! I dont even know if i can zoom out because there is no "controls" in options, and no buttons on screen to do it. This is ridiculous.

    Oh and that camera movement - its so sluggish, so slow even on highest speed, so unnatural and just pain in the ass to use.

    Just.

    Horrible.

    Learn from a dude who made UfoExtender in his free time - he added customizeable hotkeys to original and even new interface elements to battlescape inventory. Without having access to the source code. Your "new remake" doesnt even have cusomizeable controls... in damn 2012 i will still have to hack your game to have customizeable controls?

    You hard coded controls using QWEASD.... You guys ever heard that a big portion of people does not use WASD but ESDF? No? Never crossed your mind that customiseable controls for a game that uses a lot of hotkeys is a good idea? Ehh... Nevermind.

    Original wins once again. Remake has worser interface, sluggish mouse and camera movement, no way to play using only mouse, stupid default controls without a way to reassign.

    7. Deprivation of game experience.
    In a game about unknown enemy, first contact is one of the epic moments to be remembered. You fear him. You are curious. You want to punch his face. Anything. But there is this first contact. And you deprieved player of experiencing first contact be making it happen TWICE in the tutorial under tutorial's command! What have you done? In the original, it could be landed ufo, it could be crashlanded ufo, it could be terror or even base assault! Every time it was different and first time you played it was true first contact! You went there without any understanding what you will face! How many, what are they capable of...

    In the remake, they do it for you. They kill you guys in stupidest ways possible for you to show you that "enemy is dangerous" and do it again to show you "enemy knows how to shoot up roofs" maybe? Anyways, twice your experience of first contact is ruined and deprieved.

    Way to ruin the huge, epic moment, take away major part of the fun.

    If you needed to make player learn to play via tutorial, at least you could do it like Amnesia did it. Do not show the enemy in the tutorial, just spook the player. First let him learn to move and act, and then let him have his first contact... alone, the way he wants it...

    Let him play and enjoy the game, do not deny him this!

    Another win for original, another fail for remake.

    8. Okay we started actual fight... This is soooooo screwed! This i sooo many steps back from the original its ridiculous! Tactical combat in this game just... SUCKS! Lets compare it to the original and see...

    9. Size of the map... Where did my map go? Where are those big landscapes? What is this tiny corridor shooter ☺☺☺☺? I thought i was playing a strategy, tactics game, no?

    Ever heard of Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 Big map project? Even if you didnt, read the name again. Its called big map project, not small map project for a reason! Shrinking the map in a tactical game dumbs the game down and takes away a lot of what original game was about! If anything, expanding the map may add new tactics and broaden your array of choices, making the game more interesting.

    So why is X-Com different? The original had huge maps, where you could flank or be flanked, could have alien hiding in some general building to the side of the map, you had a huge battle for a huge city in terror... Here we get a corridor shooter. Linear map with several hand-placed obstacles.

    Yeah, original is better once again, but we are already accustomed to it, arent we?

    10. But lets get back to deprivation of game experience.
    Any, ANY veteran of the original game knows how important first several turns are. You can land far away from the enemy, or you can land right on top of several aliens. Turn one was player turn, and aliens had huge advantage because they had full time units and their reaction, already higher than yours, was through the roof. Basically peeking outside at turn one was a death wish, and if you landed with aliens right outside the skyrider, looking at you, you'd really consider extracting right away. You could wipe your entire squad if the alient would reaction fire at you with a small bomb launcher. Boom. All unconsious. Mission failed, skyrider lost, with all soldiers and equipment.

    And it was GREAT.

    There were tactics. You could throw smoke grenade inside and wait, then start going out slowly. You could have your tank peek and if anything happens, it's more likely to survive due to higher armor. You really considered risk vs reward when you saw aliens are all around skyrider exit. It was huge.

    Now we are deprieved of this. Exiting skyrider is done for us. Aliens will never be right outside the skyrider, yeah, of course they wouldnt, its no fair, players would whine and dislike the game for being too cruel!

    Original wins once again. Huge part of tactics of battlescape are ripped out of the game, for sake of adding a nice cinematic... yay! What's not to love?

    10. Size of the squad... We're talking unknown threat here. It might be a legion! It might be something that can take control of us and use our men against ourselves. So thats why we're only taking FOUR dudes on a mission? WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA? Even in the year 1999 we already had aircraft capable of carrying more than ten people. Original game had skyrider fit 14 troops, or 10 and 1 tank, or 6 and 2 tanks. And what do we get in original? Four measy units, with a chance of later upgrade. Yeah... What about Avenger? Twenty Six operatives? And you needed those in base siege missions, even having twenty six guys you could still lose because it was ruthless, it was unfair and it was frightening. People with blaster bomb launchers all around, aliens coming from everywhere... thank god they didnt knew how to use elevators, or you'd have a nightmare. And if you were assaulting an ethereal base - good luck trying, no matter how many people you'd bring, you could lose.

    Here we get.. four. Yeah. Huge hit.... "Right in the jewels", as Duke Nukem'd say.

    It is just a crime against the original. I can see how dumbing game down to several units and smaller map makes it easier to actually make and balance the game, but at this point, please tell me, why on earth should i like to play your game instead of the original? Its worser in every single way! But lets keep on topic.

    Limiting size of the squad more than four times to that of the original is more than four steps back. It adds nothing to the gameplay, but takes away a huge part of tactical approach.

    11. New turn system!
    Devs said TU based system was not very good because it didnt allow you to think of your squad as a whole, but had you calculate all those little points, where you can go, how many steps you can make so you can still fire and get away... i get it. Maybe there should be a simplier yet better system that will free up the player time for something ese. Maybe you can change TU based system to some other system... But tell me, what is this abomination?

    After experiencing my first combat, i have to ask, why do you ever call this XCOM Enemy Unknown anymore? It has nothing true to the original! Nothing. Battlescape tactics are completey changed and screwed, more than that, they are FUBAR.

    Lets begin with comparison. What was the original system?
    You had a set amount of points, which depended on your soldier stats. Better soldier had more. You could use these points to move around, movement costed the same amount (so better soldier could move further). You could use them to operate your inventory (later on that) and to fire. Firing costed fixed percent, so everybody could fire same amount of shots. When you spotted an enemy, it could react to your actions, if his reaction x his time units remaining were greater than same formula for your soldier. There were also complex mechanics of mutal suprise rule, and reaction to being fired from behind, and some cases when you could react to turning of the enemy, not only movement and action, etc. This all created a real tactical experience, where you had to think about your every step, you had to act together as a team (or you'd have "lemmings syndrome"), you usually chose to fire from beyond enemy sight range because that wouldnt put your units in danger of reaction fire. You would have different tactics on scouting the land, but generally, the game was about spotting the enemy and living to tell the tale. The danger came from the fact that on enemy turn, they could come out of the fog of war, kill your dude and hide, and you had to either suck that up, or advance in hopes of spotting them and then having a shot. But you could get your spotter shot too, without revealing enemy location, then you'd either have to aim at where he fired from, or send in another guy... etc. Well, this was dangerous, fatal battle, where you could both get an upper hand (spotter spots, other soldiers kill, spotter gets back, skip turn, repeat) or get decimated by the enemy. And then there was he act of getting inside the UFO - that was a huge tactical aspect in itself. You often had tactics that involved stunning your operative in order to save his life, or sending in a suicide unit that would die in 99% cases. But it was interesting, tactical and had a huge depth to it. You also had a lot of ways of dealing with the enemy - using a lot of grenades, or even explosives, using explosive ammunition or incendary ammunition, or trying to get in melee and stun in order to get higher score and more test subjects in your alien containtment.

    What do we get in the remake?
    First of all, you are dumbed down to TWO actions per turn. If that's not enough, your soldier will, like an idiot, continue his action even if he spotted an enemy in process. If that's not enough, you are not allowed to move after shooting, or shooting twice. Now tell me, who thought that was a good idea?
    You guys ever heard of Battle for Wesnoth? Jagged Alliance 1 or 2? You said you all played X-Com, omg, how could you make such an awful system!?

    I cannot advance step by step until i notice an enemy. WHY!? In every game i listed, your movement is interrupted if you notice an enemy, and you are allowed to reconsider. In X-Com, you can just move step-by-step, to stop when you have visual contatct. Why cannot i do it anymore?

    I cannot shoot and then get back with remaining time. WHY? Who thought that was a good idea? I understand in games like Wesnoth and Heroes of Might and Magic it does make sense that your attack ends your turn, because we're talking armies here. But this game is about single soldiers. So what prevents me from rushing back behind cover after i took a shot? Why do i HAVE to stay near that edge of a building so that the enemy can blow it up? Why do i have to stay behind a crate where i'm vulnerable, when i could have rushed inside the building where i'd be 100% safe. Why cant i shoot from the roof and then get to the center of it and duck, so that i dont get hit on their turn unless they climb up the roof? I cannot shoot twice if i dont move. WHY? What makes it so? 1 movement = 1 shooting in terms of time, since i can either move and shoot or move and move, so what the hell, why cannot i shoot twice?

    Who thought that preventing fire for those who dont have sight of the enemy is a good idea (yeah, only snipers can do that now). You ever played Airsoft, Paintball, idk, any real firearms conflict simulation? Do you know the difference between spotting the enemy and seeing him? If i advance through a forest, and enemy is laying down behind a tree, i will spot him from much smaller distance than i'd be able to see him from! Because i dont know where to look, i'm looking everywhere for the signs of him, and my vision isnt good enough to instantly notice him right there. But after i did notice him, now my buddy can focus on that tree and also see him there. So whats the problem with firing there?

    This creates a stupid "glued-down" system where you are glued in place and made vulnerable not by the nature of the conflict (you are against an alien threat, and they already had time to spread out so you're surrounded when you land), not by the nature of the firearms (you have crappy anti-bullet armor and they have plasma weapons) but by the system that forking glues my dudes in place after they fired, so that enemy can fire back on them on their turn!

    This... Is... NONSENSE!!!!!!

    You screw the tactical part of the original beyond all recognition! If we'd have no skins, meaning, we'd have gray dolls fighting gray dolls with standart "guns", and we'd ask people what game is this a remake of, judging by the tactical system, noone would recognise this as an X-Com game, i'd bet on that!

    I accept the fact that maybe, maybe there is tactics to this system as well. Maybe it also has its quirks, you can learn and progress, become better. But this system is so limited compared to the original, its just an offense to call this a remake. This is a destruction of all what original standed for, not a remake.

    And if it would only end up here... But no! We go on to...

    12. Lack of inventory!
    WHAT THE !? Who thought that was a good idea? Dressing your characters like dolls is a huge part of any tactica game. Thats where you get familliar with your guys, where you get to know him, and then they die horribly, and you feel it because you geared that guy by hand... Not only that, but the original had a very complex and well though system (putting something into shoulder slot costed many TU, but taking it from there costed very little TU, putting something into right hand from the other side slot, like, left leg, costed more than from corresponding right lef, etc). System was perfect, all that was missing is saving presets, so you dont have to equip them manually every time.

    But no. No no no. This is a console game, and so equipment screen is a no-no. We will tell them that PC gets its own interface, but truth it, its just the same console interface buth with sluggish mouse on top of it.

    We lost inventory - a huge part of the original - and what do we get instead? Nonsense! Only speficic "class" can equip specific weapon. But it gets worse... I CAN ONLY CARRY ONE ROCKET!?!?!?!?!?! What the hell? In original, even a ☺☺☺☺☺ could carry more than that. Dump that heavy gun and stock more rockets, your heavy gun wont help you when you need to take out that cyberdisk bunch from the distance! Where's my incendary ammo? High explosive ammo?

    Where is my ammo at all? GONE? Who thought this was a good idea? A huge part of the original was ammunition. You could easilly go out of ammo if some dude does too many autofires. You would scavenge and use enemy guns, or have to toss ammo around. It was part of the game, and important one.

    Instead, we get "reload" button that magically materialises ammunition for us?

    But... a big part of the original was having to chose. Plasma weapons - accurate, fast, and powerful, but cost ammo. Ammo costs elerium, and elerium is priceless. Laser weapons - less accurate, less powerful, but unlimited ammo. Chose - have an advantage but pay for it, or have unlimited ammo but less firepower.

    And what about guys carrying spare clips, or ammo for small launchers, blaster bombs, rocket launchers? All gone. One rocket, period.

    This is beyond ridiculous. I was deprieved of any freedom to control my dudes by the changes to the TU system, and now i'm deprieved of simply replacing that pistol with an extra grenade! What kind of "True to original" game is this?

    Several steps back for the remake once again.

    13. Enemy guns disintegrate...
    Yeah... this is so true to the original, right? No, it isnt! Who though this was a good idea i dont even... What's best than taking heavy plasma off an alien corpse, and blasting the ufo wall with it to make a second door. What's best than scavenging ammunition off alien corpses? No, we dont need that, say the developers of the remake, lets dumb that down even more. No picking up items. You get scrap and be happy with it.

    Another step back, thank you. Next!

    14. Only one base.
    Now, i agree, that most of the time, you'd use one base to launch ground missions because it was easier that way. But you could also have research bases, production bases, you could have secondary bases just in case your main base goes down in an unlucky base assault.

    Forcing us to one base is stupid, limiting and just makes zero sense. X-Com 1 was about multiple bases. X-Com 2 was about multiple bases. X-Com 3 was about multiple bases. X-Com 4 was about multiple bases. But no, in a true-to-original remake, we will not allow you to have multiple bases.

    What about placing my base exactly where i want it? You ever heard of "single base in arctic on superhuman" walkthough of the original? No, you never did, and you never will in your dumbed down "chose one of five pre-set country points and thats all you got".

    Original wins once again, and by huge margin (more than one base vs one base, better base layout interface because top down view IS better than side view, and ability to place bases wherever you want instead of being locked to five preset points).

    15. UFO Interception...
    I cannot intercept by multiple aircraft...
    WHAT!? You say you played the original. Well maybe you played on novice? And they gave you an avenger right at the start too? Have you ever heard about downing a Very Large with interceptors? Or firstorms? Yeah go do it with 1 aircraft at a time! This just doesnt need any more words...

    What about dumbed down interception window? Where did all those options go!?!?!??! What is this? Who designed it? Its nonsence!
    WHERE IS THE EPIC INTECEPTION MUSIC!?!?!?! Omg. What have you done? If you remake X-Com, either keep the epic interception music, or do it like this guy did it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y1r5F9UeU not like you did it, with boring music... Hell even visuals in the original were better for the interception screen.

    Sorry, but this is another huge step back from the original.

    16. You cannot respond to both missions at once!?
    Who thought that was a good idea? "We can only respond to one"? NO YOU ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ WE CAN RESPOND TO BOTH! Buy a second skyranger and do it! This is stupid. This is so artificial limitation that it just sticks out. Really sticks. In X-Com 1, you could react to everything you managed to. In X-Com 2, same. In X-Com 3, same. In X-Com 4, same. But in remake, yeah, you cant do that. Way to remake!

    Step back once again!

    17. Generally, dumb down and artificial limits all around.
    Original game had you decide your class. Want a heavy weapons guy - train him in certain stats. Want a marksman - train him by having him make more shots per mission. Want a guy with good reaction - geat him up with best armor, and let him take reaction shots... he will be pro in no time, or die trying. You wanted to specialise on research? Build new labs. On production? New workshops.
    Everything was freeform - you could spend your money on one of the items in a huge list that you could buy (scientists, soldiers, engineers, new craft, craft armament, crew armament...), rebuild your base from scratch to fit your needs (like, to make it more defendable), etc...
    However, here we have those classes everywhere. You chose a class of your base when you start, you choose what to gain when you chose what country to help, you chose the class when you level up your soldier... Everything is limited by creating artificial walls and barriers (cannot do both missions at once, cannot carry rocket launcher if you aint this class, etc).
    Hell, i cannot even hire scientists anymore! I have to get them through missions! What is that?
    Once again, this is like taking The Elder Scrolls series game (Morowind or Oblivion, for example), and making it into a game with a character development system of Diablo 3, and calling that "remake". Nonsense!
    You took away all the freedom we had.
    * We cannot buy or sell stuff like we could before (we would get huge amount of different artifacts from each mission, now we get 2 corpses and 5 item debris and thats it)
    * We cannot build our base where we want to
    * We cannot have multiple bases
    * We cannot freely plan our base
    * We cannot buy personell
    * We cannot complete all missions that show up
    * We cannot equip our soldiers like we want to

    How can you ever call this a step forward?

    18. And just now, I found out this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpvQGHCFKpQ

    Yes, you played Battle for Wesnoth, you played X-Com 1. You had a fenomenal exprerience. Just lets follow this video

    * You died right after you come out of skyranger, you understood "That is X-Com for you", so that's why you removed this from your remake?
    * The original game is unforgiving, that's why you automatically exit my guys out of Skyranger for me so that they dont die?
    * It freaks you out when you see a sectoid in the dark, thats why your game completely deprieves you of this, by allowing you to see the enemy right from the main menu, and then you can see him with your camera easilly, see him fumble in cover, moving his limbs, so becaue you liked it, you removed it from your remake.
    * The original game had soul, thats why you tried so hard to rip it off and remove it?
    * They're not gonna hold your hand, that's why you hold the hand in the remake? I dont get it!
    * They say, they LIE that "they're going to keep that stuff" but in truth, they remove everything, everything that was great about the original...
    * Original source material still resonates.... Yeah, it does, because you see how bad the remake it is, how far the remake is from the original, how many original features were removed, crippled! Lots of features from the original are stripped and that indeed resonates when you play the remake.

    After watching this video, I cant take it anymore. It hurts. I'm almost crying here at my desk. They just lie for the whole video. A true PR move, in order to sell their game. It hurts. It really hurts. Why are they doing this? They say original is sacred, holy to them, yet they mutilated, decimated it and made a horrible mess that they call a "remake true to original".

    I had high hopes for this game... Oh well, I had to know better.

    I'd like to thank anybody who read this far. If you have something to object, I'm all ears. I'm not a hater, I actually wanted to love this game, I hoped to play it and enjoy it as much as i did the original. But after trying the demo yesterday, it just seems impossible. Maybe I am wrong?
    Last edited by Hissatsu; 10-02-2012 at 02:34 AM.

  2. #2
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    Personally i think the new game looks very good.

    I'm not keen on only having one small squad and just the one base (even two bases would have been acceptable) but I'm so happy that they remade the game that i am willing to look past that.

    the original game was great fun and i loved kitting up my guys, building bases, buying/selling/making gear etc but it is what it is, let's give it a shot before we judge.

    I am a little puzzled why you can only send one interceptor at a time though against a ship, it stands out massively and is a little immersion breaking for me, but again will see how it plays out.

  3. #3
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    its a big mistake rating a final game on a demo that we know is not representative of the final game in many respects.

  4. #4
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    Aside from UI and lack of customization (p.17 here mostly) this whole post is a subjective ranting based on demo - nothing more.
    I'm pretty sure you can just delete the devs videos from game folder to skip 'em. Size of squad, one base and turn system seem like improvement to me.

  5. #5
    TL;DR

    Seriously, if you aren't happy with the game cancel your pre-order or don't buy it. Arguing anything at this point won't make much of a difference, seeing as the game releases in a little over a week. I'm really sorry it wasn't the OG with updated graphics but I love what they've done and what I've seen so far. Games have to evolve or we'd just be playing the same stuff over and over. I'd say wait for the release, read some reviews, watch some videos of people who aren't the terrible reviewers playing it now, and see how well it really stacks up.

  6. #6
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    First, go buy you a new puter, or update yours. You could atleast disable the vsync and try turning down settings. If everything else about this game fails for me, i can say right now it will not be the UI or controls. And i've even got some kinda weird bug with changing level while throwing nades or shooting rocket on pc control.

    Second I didn't even read past the mouse complaints... but i'll go ahead and say the rest sucks, call me a hypocrite

    Edit: shame on me for posting and giving the thread a bump...

  7. #7
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    Now that is a LONG post.

    Being as you clearly took the time to write something so long, you obviously feel strongly about the changes from the first game and aren't here just to troll. I will be honest, I did not read your whole post, but skimmed by the "main" parts.

    I do agree with you on many points. I don't like the small squad size, the single base, the mostly smaller maps (we have seen some bigger ones, but it seems most are smaller). I understand WHY they made these changes, but I would have still would have rather had a game where these changes were not made necessary.

    It got to the point where I stopped lurking this board and started posting because of my frustration with these changes. (though by that point the game was pretty much feature locked anyways). I however have reached a point of acceptance.

    Why?

    Watching the reviewer videos, I see how fun the tactical missions can be. I had to tell myself that, "Yes, this is not the original XCOM, but it looks like fun anyways"

    So it's up to you to make that call, buy the game, or wait until something better comes along.

  8. #8
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    The demo overall isn't a great impression of the game. I've unlocked all the armor, weapons, aliens, and even the shivs in the demo. After getting the chance to play it more freestyle, it is a totally different experience that is more positive than the rather negative holding hands the tutorial provides. It is a necessary evil to get people less inclined to play something like this interested.

  9. #9
    Basing your opinions off of the demo which was barely a tutorial is a huge mistake.

  10. #10
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    your post reminds me of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g

    Most of your arguments here are simply; They changed something! F**K them!

    UFO: Enemy Unknown was brilliant, but far from flawless. You obviously didn't do much research in finding out what has actually changed in this game and most importantly, why it has changed. Maybe this game is not really something for you, but saying that it is inferior in every single way is just plain stupid...

    I'd like to redirect you to this thread for an, in my opinion, fair comparison between this game and the original:

    http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread...X-COM-Defense)

  11. #11
    1st post here, as I notice the OPs is.

    I guess the diffrence is that I have been handing arround on these forums for a while just reading.

    Anyway registered just to say, it is rarther obvious that you have not been doing the same - allot of the points you made are incorect - for example its already been discussed that after your 1st playthrough you will be able to skip the tutorial.

    Many of the other points you raise are also just based on what you have seen in the demo rarther than information that is available elsewhere.

    There has been some discussion that possibly this wasnt the right demo to release at all. As much as I've enjoyed playing it I do think it's too short and will lead people to jump to incorect concusions about the full game

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gair22 View Post
    The demo overall isn't a great impression of the game. I've unlocked all the armor, weapons, aliens, and even the shivs in the demo. After getting the chance to play it more freestyle, it is a totally different experience that is more positive than the rather negative holding hands the tutorial provides. It is a necessary evil to get people less inclined to play something like this interested.
    Yes! I think the un-modded demo is a pile of steaming dog pooh that will do more harm to the sales of this game then help.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anbar View Post
    its a big mistake rating a final game on a demo that we know is not representative of the final game in many respects.
    But, but, anybody who's so uber they beat games on the hardest difficulties under the hardest circumstances must be amazing and wouldn't do such an utterly noobish thing, right?

  14. #14
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    Well well....
    8 out of 10 points were just... well you got them wrong.

    for example:
    - you can skip the tutorial if you dont like it, its for new players.
    - its not a remake its a reimagening.
    - mouse system works good (could be a software/hardware problem on your side)
    - that logo stuff is normal these days, i cant think of any newer game where you can skip the logo (except if you manipulate the - ini which you can probably do with xcom too)
    - you get used to the interface very fast, if you dont like it, wait for a mod
    - many people were annoyed with the positioning of the aliens, thats why UFOExtender (that really nice mod for the old game) had some tweaking options like: always start on the edge of a map. makes sense that in the new game you are a little protected from this annoying experience
    - inventory was also critizised and there was also a twak from UFOExtender to make that easier. makes sense to simplify that. although im not happy with the inventory-system in the new game either.
    - well weapon fragments and base placing -> see reimagening not remake

    the demo shows nothing its a modified version which doesnt even really represent the game.

  15. #15
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    Cry me a river you fat F'n baby! Really your ☺☺☺☺☺ing about changing the logo? Who cares. They changed the name of the difficulty levels. Who cares! You can't skip the intro. Who cares! I stopped reading when I realized this was pointless ☺☺☺☺☺ing. If you don't like the game don't buy it. The rest of us will enjoy what probably is a great game.

  16. #16
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    I disagree with all 18 points, except for point 4: the interface.

    I don't think the game was dumbed down, the pointless aspects of it that never gave you any real choices were simplified. For example, in the original game you may have been able to place your base anywhere you wanted, but there were only 2 places or so ever worth considering and even then it didn't matter much. In this remake you may not have this freedom, but you get to make a real choice about which continent you wish to start on which also actually matters this time around. In many ways they have added more complexity in the form of for example the new cover system and the new abilities of your troops and the aliens.

    Most other points seem to be merely come down to the fact that this game is not the exact same as the original. You complain for example about the lack of "interception music". That cannot be taken seriously. The problem with remakes is often that people have idolized the original up to the point where they are no longer capable of seeing what was wrong with these games. They then want the remake to be the exact same game because they have wrongly convinced themselves that the previous game was perfect. I doubt however that such people can truly be pleased in any way as even the smallest difference is seen as an imperfection.

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    I managed to get half way through that wall of text, just purely so that i could be sure of my sincerity when i state that you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

    1. Demo's are limited by design
    2. So are tutorials.
    3. All of this has been discussed.
    and 4. Have a nice day.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    - mouse system works good (could be a software/hardware problem on your side)
    Many people had mouse issues in the demo. This is one legit point. (Though as I said earlier, the demo was over all bad before you mod it anyways)

  19. #19
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    LOL vent my brother Hissatsu vent! Let it all out, feel better now??? =)

    -_^

    But I do agree Firaxis should put an updated version of the originals interception music back in as a homage to fans. The music was quite catchy & got the blood flowing. =)

  20. #20
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    Your entire argument is based on this being a remake of the original.. Well I'm afraid it's not and never was, a remake of the original. This game was inspired be the original but that's it. As I undertsand it there are two 'remakes' out there if that's what you're interested in, one called xenonaughts or something and the other I think was UFO extraterrestrials.

    If you want a remake of the original I'd suggest checking those out. Personally I love the look of this game and I also loved the original, but I don;t think you can really compare the two. And I will admit, the demo was shocking but we've seen enough elsewhere to know the game is much much deeper.

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    [rude]I think someone forgot their medication today.
    [polite]I disagree with most of what you say and find quite a lot of the design choices excellent.
    [TL;DR]Ok, that is your opinion, let your money do the talking, I'll be playing XCOM.

  22. #22
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    Well you have pretty much hung - drawn and quarted the new xcom game based soley on your experinces of playing a demo which is heavily scripted on both missions and is not even a close representaion of the final game with many aspects of the game closed down for demo purposes?
    If you had watched all the videos like you claimed you would know most of the stuff you have typed is utter crap?
    I suggest you play the oringinal game and stay in the past - while the rest of us play a great new xcom experince.
    If you had played the full game and come to these conclusions i may have been a bit more forgiving but to base all your comments from a demo - i just can not take you seriously?

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    Stopped reading when Mr. Uber-Veteran started talking about the SkyRIDER... yep... sure.

    And I'm really glad they wiped out TU-System, Inventory and 26-man squads... this all prevented the player from actually PLAYING the game...

  24. #24
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    I DIDN'T EVEN READ YOUR MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT BUT I KNOW I CAN SAY I LOLD AT IT!!!!!!

    Whatever the ☺☺☺☺ you said, no you are wrong. But good on you for trying.

  25. #25
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    I'm too bored to read this. Can I just sumarise it as more "make it like the old game with nice graphics"? So the demo ain't a pretty example. I don't mind - its a demo. Never liked them, never will. Thats what a full game is for.

  26. #26
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    I read little bit, can you at least wait to release so we can agree/disagree with you?

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    I have never played the original game, so this particular rebuttal of mine is not about how this game is supposed to be better than the old one, nor a comparison of features, but rather correcting a few notions about the new game based on the inadequate portrayal of the demo. Thus I'll avoid any issues of subjective comparison (which most of this article is), and just focus on the objective features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hissatsu View Post
    1. It begins at the start of the game. In the original, I could skip the intro. In the remake, I cannot. Wtf? Too much ego, guys? "How can the player not watch our company logo every time, its so beatiful!"
    This practice of unskippable intros have been a feature of modern videogames in the last decade. There are some that allow you to skip it, but otherwise it's not like it's a gamebreaking feature. Also we don't know if the full game will give the option to skip it.

    5. Tutorial...
    That can be turned off in the full game as shown here, which allows you to jump right into the action.


    Your "new remake" doesnt even have cusomizeable controls
    Customizable keybindings are in the full game. See screenshot from preview build:




    7. Deprivation of game experience.
    See reply to number 5. If you want to immediately face the aliens without hand-holding, then turn off the tutorial in the option screen.

    9. Size of the map... Where did my map go? Where are those big landscapes? What is this tiny corridor shooter ☺☺☺☺? I thought i was playing a strategy, tactics game, no?
    There are maps of all sizes in the game, but we've only been given access to the small maps so far. There are far more open and bigger maps like during UFO crash recovery missions as seen here:


  28. #28
    I don't know what's more sad, the OP or the badasses trying to ☺☺☺☺ on him. Some decent posts in here at least. Like it's been said, the demo isn't really representative of the game. From the sound of it you'd probably still find every reason you could to hate the game though so I'd suggest you just don't buy it, it's quite alright.

  29. #29
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    Get UFO Extraterrestrials and UFO2 Extraterrestrials instead, they increased the scale a lot more, plenty of bases, units, weapons, research, vehicles, aliens, naval forces. Quite enjoyable and an excellent homage to the original games of which the devs openly admit they worship, and plasma weapons aren't the end game tech, you have around 8 weapon tech levels, plenty of distinct aliens species and actively encourages modding. It's also bound to be cheaper for more content.

  30. #30
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    See the difference between us? I haven't read you novel of a posting, so I won't comment on it.

    While you haven't played the game yet, but you still think, you know, how it is.

    Just a little thing to think about: Every freakin' preview lauded the game for being massive amounts of fun and they played it for hours, while you played two missions.

  31. #31
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    1990's strategy gaming suffered from pointless busy work,snail pacing and horrid late game micromanagement.People fondly remember those types of games but based on stream stats people do not play them because of said issues.

    The new X-com is the relavent X-Com now.

    Shut the door on the way out.

  32. #32
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    Well, somehow I can't believe you watched all videos and read all articles, because your post shows otherwise. No diss, but you should have saved your time for writing this post. In the same time you could have get all your points answered by yourself.

  33. #33
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    Hmm I was hoping this thread would just be forgotten. I guess the OP just wants to play the OG with fancy graphics.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumajin View Post
    I DIDN'T EVEN READ YOUR MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT BUT I KNOW I CAN SAY I LOLD AT IT!!!!!!

    Whatever the ☺☺☺☺ you said, no you are wrong. But good on you for trying.
    rofl, you just made me laugh my ass off, congratulations.

    Thanks.

  35. #35
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    What a massive waste of time and use of thinking just to prove why the remake is not as good as the OG,when what he really had to do was to not buy the game,keep his wall text to himself because nobody will tell him. 'Thank you for posting because after a week reading your post now im convinced not to buy the game'

    Let me tell you,the remake is not bad its self or whatever you call it but instead is your perpective and way of thinking in such a way that its 'you' that see the game that way. Its always a matter of apprehension.

    So your post's title should have been... "From my point of you i see the remake to be...etc"

  36. #36
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    The guys entitled to his opinion on a game that's not on general release yet and has only really played the demo, I'm not really going to... argue his points as like many the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia have coloured his view towards the game.

    I had a very similar conversation on steam with a friend of mine who also suffers from Original-itis. He was disappointed by the same things you were, he even went as far to call it "insipid, Lack lustre and trashy" to quote a few of his favourite words of choice and you know what I respected his decision. I've still pre-ordered and is willing to accept this game with an open mind and judge it buy its merits and not its heritage and if you don't like it then simply don't buy it. I am sure with the volume of sales creeping up for X-com Firaxis will miss the money you will spend on the game but again your choice. (Intended sarcasm)

    To come in here an x-com forum and spew out so much trite and vitirol towards a game that you know nothing about is quite amusingly absurd, You've proved your not ready to hang out with the big boys if all you can do is look at a demo and go thats crap because I cant move 24 operatives around the map. How about you pull on your big boy pants and go play the original because consider yourself persona non grata around these parts boyo.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Bruhn Knudsen View Post
    [rude]I think someone forgot their medication today.
    [polite]I disagree with most of what you say and find quite a lot of the design choices excellent.
    [TL;DR]Ok, that is your opinion, let your money do the talking, I'll be playing XCOM.
    i cant stop laughing about the rude comment!!!!!

  38. #38
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    Just to remind people that as much hate as the OP has towards the game, he is still entitled to his opinion, and thus should not be treated with petty name-calling and point deflection. Otherwise, all it does is show people that we're "rabid fanboys" so to speak.

    Although to the OP, this thread linked by Lukedeman111 already exists to compare the original with the reimagining. Also, while love for the original game is not wrong, there is obviously a bias to the original, extolling all of its virtues while not pointing out any of the multiple flaws and weaknesses already pointed out by a lot of other X-COM gamers, and not giving the same objective look at the ways the new game improves on certain aspects of the genre.

    Finally, demos are never used as indications of the full game for the reason that they're severely truncated versions of the actual games, and thus never representative of the wider array of features and gameplay experience that the full product will entail. Comparing a Demo to a full game is thus unfair in this regard.

  39. #39
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    *yawn*

    Most X-COM veterans aren't reactionary, over-emotional, and slow to actually find out information, rather than ranting about every little thing the moment it happens without taking the time to find out more.

  40. #40
    lots of thing you talk about that can be changed out of the demo or feel alot better to me

    1. skipping the into really that kill the game for you? sure you will be able on the full game.

    2. not a remake there is a game called Xenonauts doing that and i feel the insignia looks good

    3. not sure how to reply on this one can see where you are coming from but not sure how much surprise you would ever get from the aliens when it takes 30 secs to google thrm.

    4. sure you will be able to change in full game and you are acting like the first games run perfectly with no set ups on moden computers

    5. the Tutorial is there for people who havent played xcom before so talking about that a vet would do seems pointless and can be skipped in the full game

    6. had no probles with the views and like the mouse changing levels

    7. can be skipped and feel people who play it will find it helpful as well as high light how deadly it can be

    8. -

    9. played Jagged Alliance and its large maps was great for spending 20 mins moving from where i am to where the enemy was great way of spending my time. where are the smaller map as strait to the action and have seen a lot of word around that there are some bigger maps later on (not 100% sure about that tho.

    10.a. you may like being killed before you can do anything because you landed really bad but wasnt fun way to finish a game

    10.b. in the full game you can have a team up to 6. sure not as big as the teams in the first game but not sure i would be sending out any more than that in one jet if they are the best of the best seems like it would be a good target for the aliens ships to take out? and once again works better for the quick action

    11. i like playing the game not working out the maths of if i go here i can shot 1.52 time no wait 1.42 times feel the new game makes it quicker and simple (yes yes but is not always simply = bad)

    12. so our job is to stop the biggest force of aliens attacking earth cool what gear we get? wait none we need to make it all ourselfs? how about ammo i mean there are truckloads to share? wait make it ourselfs why? why would a team like xcom not have ammo gave to them? and sure you might like spending longer gearing your guys out then playing a mission but not every one feels that way.

    13. why would a vet soldier stop in the middle of a fight start looting the bodys of the dead like some crazy dnd player then think the best idea is to use this weapon i know little to nothing about?

    14. always found it funny that aliens are attacking but you have no problem building multi-million dollar bases anywhere you feel the need? i mean if any one could build them wouldnt they do it before you ask them to?

    15. have not seen much about the new UFO Interception so nothing to say here sorry

    16. different idea to game play makes it feel like you are plugging a dam. like you cant do everything. some place will need to make do on there own.

    17. feel this is more real in real life you cant go hey you are not a sniper and bang he now knows how some people are good at being a sniper some are not so you need to learn how to use the people you have. and why do you think when the world is falling apart that if you throw some money around the people that are top of their field will leave their country to come help you? have you have seem anything on the ant farm (what they call base building) because it looks fun and good to me. still lots of option with gear later in the game for the troops just wasnt in the demp

    18. one persons view about one persons view

    and would like to thank you for your view and hope you take mine as the same.

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