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Thread: Military Tactics

  1. #1
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    Military Tactics

    I hope you're enjoying xcom as much as I am. I see people playing on youtube and thought some of you will appreciate insight in true military style tactical advice that may help you. If you have more ideas I would love to hear them aswell.

    #1 make 2 teams one is going to be a flanking team and the other the base of fire. What is the base of fire? Guys like the heavy or suport that can use suppressive fire

    #2 in true military fashion why do we use suppressive fire? to keep our enemy from moving. We do this so that our second team can flank them from the left or right taking their cover away.

    #3 clearing the room with grenade. You dont want to send in a point man in there to get shot? Why no send in our rockets or grenade in there to recon for us...who knows you might get some of them then clear the room. work each room as a team

    #4 why not bring your grenade? the enemy has high HP and is in good cover toss a grenade destroy his cover then shoot his alien butt you'll have a better shot

    #5 for each team always have a back up watching your ass USE OVER WATCH

    #6 RECON go find where they are come back regroup then assalult your objective

    #7 Play it like your there HOPE is not a course of action plan plan plan gather intel come up with a assault plan then execute guarantee you'll bring your boys and girls fighting for earth home safe to their families right?
    Last edited by semperfi; 10-18-2012 at 09:18 PM.

  2. #2
    #8 When ambushed don't try to slug it out against superior numbers. Break contact (Run screaming like a girl) and set up your own ambush in return. Ghost armor on everyone is freaking epic for this.

  3. #3
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    #9 if you think you have too many explosives, your doing it wrong.

  4. #4
    #10 No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
    #11 Anything that can go wrong will.
    #12 Murphy was an optimist.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi View Post
    I hope you're enjoying xcom as much as I am. I see people playing on youtube and thought some of you will appreciate insight in true military style tactical advice that may help you. If you have more ideas I would love to hear them aswell.
    While I like the idea that realworld tactics will work in Xcom the reality is that they don't all translate to this as well as they do to other turn based tactical games.

    Problem one is the way suppression works. Your fire team cannot suppress without the right skills and the suppression doesn't fix the enemy - they only get a risk of a reaction shot. That's one thing I miss in this - I'd like the game to have a suppression concept from normal fire, something like, if 3 of your guys fire on a (non robotic) enemy in a turn which is in cover, it is suppressed and won't move or fire next turn (it'll just hunker down). This wouldn't necessarily unbalance the game because the enemy can do it to your guys too, and there is the rest of the force free to move. I'd even accept it if you lose your moves as well so the fire has to be the sole action.

    Without something like this, fire & manoeuvre can only be executed in a slightly clumsy way.

    On the next point overwatch is slightly mislabelled in this too. Overwatch is something undertaken while friendly forces move in reality. In this implementation, most people move their forces and only enter overwatch at the end of their turn when the enemy forces get to move. Entering overwatch earlier of course locks your guy into that action and is then unable to respond to developing threats. There'd need to be a different mechanic in order for overwatch to be used realistically.

    Anyway, I'm not asking that the game be changed, just pointing out that real world (or even tactics that work in other turn based games) don't translate all that well to xcom.

    Rotor.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RotorHed View Post
    Without something like this, fire & manoeuvre can only be executed in a slightly clumsy way.

    [...]There'd need to be a different mechanic in order for overwatch to be used realistically.

    Anyway, I'm not asking that the game be changed, just pointing out that real world (or even tactics that work in other turn based games) don't translate all that well to xcom.

    Rotor.
    I agree, enemies are not really pinned down by suppression in “Tide of Iron”-style.
    But usually they don´t move (like “real” targets usually would while under suppression). If they fire, they get a penalty, like if they´d fire blind over their cover or sth.

    You can activate overwatch before moving. I did this several times, especially with my squad-sight sniper: he eliminates enemies on their first automatic move when they are discovered by my advancing soldiers. So I can get those who would leave his LOS.
    Inside of UFOs I do similar – especially with heavys and supports – before opening doors. My assault(s) (who opened the door) will finish the rest afterwards.

  7. #7
    Agree strongly with #7.

    Hope has no place in XCOM. If you are hoping for an outcome you are not in control.

  8. #8
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    Suppressive fire is used to pin someone in real life stopping them doing any actions at all. In game this is split between overwatch (reduces chance that aliens will move) and the game version of suppressive fire that gives -acc to target.

    Heres mine;
    Murphy law applies here big time if it can go wrong it going to if it hasn't already.
    Keep a some guys back so when Murphy law trys to bite you you got a option to fix it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    #8 When ambushed don't try to slug it out against superior numbers. Break contact (Run screaming like a girl) and set up your own ambush in return. Ghost armor on everyone is freaking epic for this.
    This remindes me of guerilla warfare. I think your tactic is right on the money, especially if were going up against a larger force using little harassing fires and taking out little pockets at a time makes sence. If there is a DLC or XCOM2 I would like to see land mines or traps so that when you run back to your defensive position and if they come running after you boom. Ofcourse they will be able to use same tactics against us so it will make the game even more interesting

  10. #10
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    I couldnt agree with you more. More ordinince the better. I know heavy has abilities to carry more than one grenade, if only every one has one by default...

  11. #11
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    Thats absolutely right I'm not saying to completely take the "HOPE" factor away though, instead minimize hope as much as possible through proper planning and ask your self does the out come out way the risk?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi View Post
    This remindes me of guerilla warfare. I think your tactic is right on the money, especially if were going up against a larger force using little harassing fires and taking out little pockets at a time makes sence. If there is a DLC or XCOM2 I would like to see land mines or traps so that when you run back to your defensive position and if they come running after you boom. Ofcourse they will be able to use same tactics against us so it will make the game even more interesting
    that would be fantastic, make something like a claymore a one use item that triggers if an alien steps into a small cone. Or they could add another class - demolitions

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RotorHed View Post
    While I like the idea that realworld tactics will work in Xcom the reality is that they don't all translate to this as well as they do to other turn based tactical games.

    Problem one is the way suppression works. Your fire team cannot suppress without the right skills and the suppression doesn't fix the enemy - they only get a risk of a reaction shot. That's one thing I miss in this - I'd like the game to have a suppression concept from normal fire, something like, if 3 of your guys fire on a (non robotic) enemy in a turn which is in cover, it is suppressed and won't move or fire next turn (it'll just hunker down). This wouldn't necessarily unbalance the game because the enemy can do it to your guys too, and there is the rest of the force free to move. I'd even accept it if you lose your moves as well so the fire has to be the sole action.

    Without something like this, fire & manoeuvre can only be executed in a slightly clumsy way.

    On the next point overwatch is slightly mislabelled in this too. Overwatch is something undertaken while friendly forces move in reality. In this implementation, most people move their forces and only enter overwatch at the end of their turn when the enemy forces get to move. Entering overwatch earlier of course locks your guy into that action and is then unable to respond to developing threats. There'd need to be a different mechanic in order for overwatch to be used realistically.

    Anyway, I'm not asking that the game be changed, just pointing out that real world (or even tactics that work in other turn based games) don't translate all that well to xcom.

    Rotor.
    I agree, I play on the ps3, It has been quite some time since our last game like xcoms combat style, I hope this game will do well in sales so that other publishers start bringing back turn based strategy games, really pave the way for a new generation of strategy because I believe this genre is relly neglected. With that being said other true combat tactics that are not implemented in this game that I wish they consider next time around

    1-use of land mines in defensive positions, guerilla warfare traps
    2-calling in air strikes such as artillery or intercepter/hellfire...let me explain lets say you have 3 intercepters in north america you go to take down a UFO 1 used two still on standby it would be interesting to use these "extra intercepters to come drop some ordinance on our enemies in the battle field but limit their use by however many intercepters you have left. You can only use them once in combat type of deal. Or build anti air missles in countries to soften our targets "UFO" before we send in the intercepters. Or the ability to shoot motor rounds with heavy from far or place artillery units around the globe much like the intercepters to rain steel on our enemies

    I love this game as it is just want to practice other tactics I would use if I were on the ground just saying

  14. #14
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    And remember, Incoming fire has the right of way

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi View Post

    2-calling in air strikes such as artillery or intercepter/hellfire...let me explain lets say you have 3 intercepters in north america you go to take down a UFO 1 used two still on standby it would be interesting to use these "extra intercepters to come drop some ordinance on our enemies in the battle field but limit their use by however many intercepters you have left. You can only use them once in combat type of deal. Or build anti air missles in countries to soften our targets "UFO" before we send in the intercepters. Or the ability to shoot motor rounds with heavy from far or place artillery units around the globe much like the intercepters to rain steel on our enemies
    You know they'd put ina scatter percentage chance though they could let you research a homing beacon that you could throw to mark the spot you wish and the mortar idea is good too, it could replace the rocket and maybe have a set up time of one round with say 3-4 shots worth of ammo for each map.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RotorHed View Post
    While I like the idea that realworld tactics will work in Xcom the reality is that they don't all translate to this as well as they do to other turn based tactical games.
    Agreed. The mechanics of this game are pretty simplistic at their core. At best, real world tactics only appear here and there in a highly abstracted/simplified form.

    Actually, the game feels a lot like WH40k, which isn't too surprising, given the various nods this game gives to that franchise.

    Problem one is the way suppression works. Your fire team cannot suppress without the right skills and the suppression doesn't fix the enemy - they only get a risk of a reaction shot. That's one thing I miss in this - I'd like the game to have a suppression concept from normal fire, something like, if 3 of your guys fire on a (non robotic) enemy in a turn which is in cover, it is suppressed and won't move or fire next turn (it'll just hunker down). This wouldn't necessarily unbalance the game because the enemy can do it to your guys too, and there is the rest of the force free to move. I'd even accept it if you lose your moves as well so the fire has to be the sole action.
    Maybe they thought that this would be unbalanced in the long run to the player's favor... Even on Normal, having one of your soldiers focus fired on by 3+ aliens usually means outright death anyway (ie: little advantage to the AI), whereas granting a player focus firing on a single alien (which is super easy using the bait-overwatch technique) automatic suppression on that alien would probably make the tactical game too easy (which you can argue already is, even on Impossible, because of the AI workarounds).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sectoid_Burglar View Post
    Agree strongly with #7.

    Hope has no place in XCOM. If you are hoping for an outcome you are not in control.
    Lol, Hope probably had a place in the first 2 XCOM titles, but in this game, the name of the game is Satelites, Engineers and Delaying Plot Research!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TankHunter678 View Post
    #10 No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
    That's because you don't trigger them

    On your turn, have the opening move done by a runner. then,
    -no spawn? fine, carefully place the backup/rest of the team, closer but still behind the runner.
    -enemy spawn? you have 5 guys waiting behind, so you can either draw them in, or retreat the runner to the rest of the team.

    Rinse and repeat, apply to multiple smaller groups.

    Of course, i'm kidding you a bit cause the game has a very weird way of spawning enemies, but that's what made me react like this. It's tedious, but it works.


    Also, every time you plan something, always have a backup plan.

    ps: Dying is not a backup plan ^^

  18. #18
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    #13 Aliens are deaf, but not blind. If flanking means entering unexplored territory, then don't flank, you'll just end up triggering more enemies.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodo View Post
    Also, every time you plan something, always have a backup plan.
    This is called "Reload last autosave," then try doing something else.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi View Post
    I couldnt agree with you more. More ordinince the better. I know heavy has abilities to carry more than one grenade, if only every one has one by default...
    Heck, the highest tier of the Heavy allows two Rockets ... that is in addition to the shredder rocket and the double grenades.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus of BORG View Post
    This is called "Reload last autosave," then try doing something else.
    Not on ironman

  22. #22
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    #13 Area Intelligence. Play the maps so much that you get familiar with the terrain, cover spots, ambush spots and call all those "losing games" simulation practice.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodo View Post
    Not on ironman
    Backup Plan = play non-ironman!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Castle View Post
    #13 Area Intelligence. Play the maps so much that you get familiar with the terrain, cover spots, ambush spots and call all those "losing games" simulation practice.
    ie: If you first fail, *redefine* your success.

    trololol

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akula View Post
    #8 When ambushed don't try to slug it out against superior numbers. Break contact (Run screaming like a girl) and set up your own ambush in return. Ghost armor on everyone is freaking epic for this.
    Amen to that! I learned this lesson early on. Heck, the last mission I was on was a large UFO I shot down with an EMP. I was advancing slowly in Overwtach, it took a while but when I made initial contact it became apparent fast, I was outnumbered, out gunned, flanked, near surrounded and in serious trouble. I always use Overwtach, but I knew if I retreated in Overwtach or stood my ground, that I would be surrounded and killed... so I ran, as far as I could to any sort of cover that I could find. By doing so I was able to break contact with most of the aliens, leaving my troops in good cover during the aliens move... although I had no Overwatch. I survived the aliens turn relatively unscathed, regrouped, healed up, picked off a couple pursuing aliens, and let out a sigh of relief.

  25. #25
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    This is hard to do when "OMG CONTACT" happens on the second turn off the ramp. (flashback memories)

    There one time where I was literally on my opening moves and I was immediately put into trench warfare against mutons and heavy floaters. All of them. I vaguely remember a pair of chryssalids that came out to play (I believe it was a terror mission then?) but I was too embattled to put up with their crap and gunned them down on sight. I think I saved 1 civilian.

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