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Thread: PC features that must be added to the PC version of BioShock Infinite.

  1. #1

    PC features that must be added to the PC version of BioShock Infinite.

    2K Games, Irrational Games


    Windows Support

    -Support Windows XP
    -Support Windows Vista
    -Support Windows 7
    -Support Windows 8 ( Release Windows 8 support sometime next year if not included upon release since Windows 8 was released a few days ago don't know how much this will go into the development cycle.)

    DirectX Support all 3 versions in the options menu so people can choose which one they want to run depending how powerful your PC is.

    -Support DirectX 9
    -Support DirectX 10
    -Support DirectX 11 (To it's full potential)
    Here's all the DirectX 11 features MSAA Hair, Subsurface Scattering, [Enhanced Bloom (I don't like bloom, blurriness, or bokeh depth of field)], Apex Clothing, High Quality Shadows, [Bokeh Depth of Field (again which I don't like)], Shadowed Point Light Reflections, Tessellation & Displacement, Deferred Rendering with MSAA Support, Image Based Reflections, Color Grading, Cascaded Shadow Mapping, Light Shafts, Seamless Lighting Transitions, Realistic Foliage, [Soft-Edge Motion Blur (another thing that I don't like)], Exponential Height Fog

    Ability to render Unlimited Paricle FX.

    Crytek says Crysis 3 will be able to render Unlimited Particles.

    Pleas don't do what Activision and treyarch did to the PC version of Call of Duty: Black Ops II and leave support out for Windows XP and DirectX 9 this is the beauty of PC you can support all Windows and DirectX versions.

    Saints Row: The Third and Red Faction: Armageddon both ask you in the launcher menu what DirectX version you want to run on DirectX 10 & DirectX 11 and underneath in parentheses it says (recommended) then under all that it says DirectX 9.

    Steam survey shows more people are using Windows Vista and Windows 7 than Windows XP Windows XP should still be kept and supported Steam survey also shows more people are using DirectX 10 and DirectX 11 than DirectX 9 graphic cards DirectX 9 should still be kept and supported.

    Now here is a list of graphic options that should be in the menu besides DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and DirectX 11.

    -Field of View (FoV) slider bar up to 90-100
    -Console command Enable/Disable button
    -Windowed Mode ( For people who like playing in widowed mode)
    -Improved Alt Tab (For people who need to alt tab for specific reasons and make it alt tab in and out quickly don't let it freeze work on the performance)
    -Framereate slider bar Unlimited-60-120 etc amount Borderlands 2 and Call of Duty: Black Ops II does this

    Now 2K Games and Irrational Games please use Nvidia's PhysX Physics Engine for the PC version of BioShock Infinite it is free and will save lots of money from licensing fees Havok is just terrible.

    Here's a link that tells you it's free http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX

    It says in the first paragraph in the very last sentence that it's free

    The PhysX engine and SDK are available for Microsoft Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, PlayStation 3,[3][4] Xbox 360[5] and the Wii.[6] The PhysX SDK is provided to developers of all platforms for free, both for commercial and non-commercial use.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX#cite_note-6

    It works on all platforms Microsoft Windows, Mac OSX, Linux, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii.

    PhysX has the best Physics Engine it can do the following APEX Destruction, APEX Clothing, APEX Particles, APEX Vegetation, and APEX Turbulence ( I don't know what APEX Turbulance is maybe something to do with smoke and wind).

    All of Nvidia's PhysX Physics Engine properties are done Dynamically in Real Time in the Video Game Engine in 3D no more 2D done with shaders and trickery.

    Unreal Tournament 3 (III), Mafia II, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Batman: Arkham City, and Borderlands 2 uses Nvidia's PhysX Physics Engine.

    And now here is a major list of how many graphical options there should be in the options menu and how they should be added.

    Give us the ability to choose these options Tessellation & Displacement in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Shadows in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Sun Shafts/Godrays/Light Shafts what ever you want it to be called in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Shadowed Point Light Reflections in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra high, Maximum.

    Give us Deferred Rendering with MSAA Support in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Image Based Reflections in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Color Grading in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum

    Give us Cascaded Shadow Mapping in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Seamless Lighting Transitions in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Realistic Foliage in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us [Enhanced Bloom (I don't like bloom, blurriness, or bokeh depth of field)] in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us [Bokeh Depth of Field (again which I don't like)] in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us [Soft-Edge Motion Blur (another thing that I don't like)] in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us MSAA Hair in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Subsurface Scattering in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Exponential Height Fog in the DirectX 11 options menu Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum.

    Give us Dynamic Lighting, Particles, Foliage, Weather, Snow, Rain, Water upgarde the Unreal Engine 3 to give us those capabilities.

    Now finally the last most important feature Release mod tools Source (Software) Development Kit (SDK) with everything like level/map editor so modders can create meshes, skins, textures, total conversion mods, custom maps/levels.

    I want to see Nexus website owner Dark0ne open up a BioShock Infinite Nexus website and see lots of modders post mods on there and competition also mod tools create jobs sometimes modders get hired.

    2K Games and Irrational Games please give the PC version of BioShock Infinite a whole bunch of Tender Loving Care (TLC) I know most of these features might give the PC version of BioShock Infinite a longer development cycle and cause delays if that's the case release these features after it is released maybe after working on DLC as well you know release it in Patches/Updates.

    Here's 2 videos showing how the latest graphics look for PC they look even better now than in these videos.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzjsTt_DzCw
    Last edited by Ballowers100; 10-30-2012 at 03:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Helluva request,but they won't fulfill your wish just because you took 28 hours to write this down;I agree with a lot of stuff there,like the FOV slider for example,PC needs it's exclusive features,and great part of developers don't give a damn about it nowadays,but I find it quite unlikely to happen,it's gonna probably have the options that BioShock had,or a little more,it's not much,but it's decent already.Anyways,strongly agree with the realeasing of the Modding Tools,one of the best things is seeing the community working on new content for the game after it's launched.Welp,in the end,I'm more concerned about the game being a console port than anything else.The first BioShock run beautifully and smoothly,such a great thing,and I have hope for this happening to Infinite as well.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    It works on all platforms Microsoft Windows, Mac OSX, Linux, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii.
    AMEN Brother!!!

  4. #4
    "Black Ops II and leave support out for Windows XP and DirectX 9"

    well there goes many sales - whole lotta people didnt care to pay MicroShoddy's extortion for bells and whistles virtually nobody needs.

    ---

    "Unlimited Particles"

    high end cards might be able to handle it a bit (GPU channels to main memory still the choke point)

    ---

    "more people are using DirectX 10 and DirectX 11 than DirectX 9 graphic cards"

    which is irrelevant if you have an OS that cant use DX10/11 (which Microshoddy wants to FORCE people to replace the old servicable OS with their irrelevant new one - might be even worse in future with windows 8 dumb down being even more repulsive )

    ---

    "please use Nvidia's PhysX Physics Engine for the PC version of BioShock Infinite"

    kinda late for any change -- maybe for Bioshock 3 - Raptures Rebirth ??

    ---

    "Off, Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra High, Maximum."

    Some settings (dealing with LOD) might not be broken down this way (alot of the customization can deal with this for performance)

    ---

    "Now finally the last most important feature Release mod tools Source (Software) Development Kit (SDK) with everything like level/map editor so modders can create meshes, skins, textures, total conversion mods, custom maps/levels."

    Very dependant on the Unreal Engine tools and how much customization Irrational did (and then how easy /how much work it would take to modify the tools). Add documenting the UE tools and internals/customization to make it plain what/how things can be changed/edited/scripted.
    Last edited by watchman; 10-28-2012 at 11:55 PM.

  5. #5
    DirectX 11 support would be very nice, especially considering earlier this year I upgraded my computer to a card that can run it

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vimandvigor View Post
    DirectX 11 support would be very nice, especially considering earlier this year I upgraded my computer to a card that can run it
    Unreal Engine 3 is like 5 years old so I wonder what impact that will have

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    Unreal Engine 3 is like 5 years old so I wonder what impact that will have
    Unreal Engine 3 is not old anymore Epic Games upgraded it last year to use DirectX 11 to it's full potential here is a video showing all the DirectX 11 features that are added it is also in the latest version of Unreal Development Kit (UDK) which lets you make your own video games and mods if you know what you are doing I also updated my comment with it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    Unreal Engine 3 is not old anymore Epic Games upgraded it last year to use DirectX 11 to it's full potential here is a video showing all the DirectX 11 features that are added it is also in the latest version of Unreal Development Kit (UDK) which lets you make your own video games and mods if you know what you are doing I also updated my comment with it.
    But since Irrational has been building on a version something like 2 years old (with their own customization I assume) is it easy to adopt the upgrade to UE3 (or isit UE3.x ?) to their build of it (and they also have to look at what does it gain them when they still have to run the same game on DirectX 9 for a large group of players).

  9. #9
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    I'd like to see gamepad support and Steam achievements as well as maximum optimization across all parts of the game.

  10. #10
    Thank you 2K and Irrational Games for releasing PC specs.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/07/bi...ions-revealed/

    Anti-aliasing
    Texture detail
    Dynamic shadows
    Post-processing quality
    Light shafts
    Ambient occlusion
    Object detail
    V-sync
    FOV (a slider, with no listed value)
    UI margins
    Toggleable highlighting of “searchable” or “important” objects
    An Irrational developer told me that Infinite is running on DirectX 10, but that it does take advantage of some DX11 features

    Please please give us Tessellation since it will be using "some DX 11 features" take advantage of DirectX 11 more please.

    Also please release mod tools Source (Software) Development Kit (SDK) so modders can make mods and custom levels/maps. I really really want mod tools.

  11. #11
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    Sweet, now we just need to see some PC footage Bugs me that developers always show games off on the Xbox360, even at big time conventions like E3.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    -Support Windows XP
    XP is obsolete. You might as well "insist" they support DOS 2.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    XP is obsolete. You might as well "insist" they support DOS 2.
    To be honest... If it wasn't for directX 11 I would still be using XP.... It's not as obsolete as you might think, it basically has all the features windows 7 has except for the extra security nonsense....

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    Glad IG have listened and seemed to have made a proper PC version. Big thumps up to you guys!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by luukdeman111 View Post
    To be honest... If it wasn't for directX 11 I would still be using XP.... It's not as obsolete as you might think, it basically has all the features windows 7 has except for the extra security nonsense....
    ... I don't think that security is "nonsense".

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    But since Irrational has been building on a version something like 2 years old (with their own customization I assume) is it easy to adopt the upgrade to UE3 (or isit UE3.x ?) to their build of it (and they also have to look at what does it gain them when they still have to run the same game on DirectX 9 for a large group of players).
    Hmm no idea why my comment I posted to you was deleted yesterday I tried making a point and showing you some facts.

    Anyways here is what I said.

    Yes Irrational Games has been building on a version for 2 years with their own custimizations but it is easy to adpt and upgrade Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 3.x to what ever build they want.

    It looks like Windows XP and DirectX 9 are not going to be supported for BioShock Infinite which makes me sad :/ I don't want it to disappear forever I mean it would be cool to see support for DirectX 8 as well but that is a different story. Some Indie Video Game Developers still use DirectX 5, DirectX 6, DirectX 7, and DirectX 8.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/07/bi...ions-revealed/

    -Anti-aliasing
    -Texture detail
    -Dynamic shadows
    -Post-processing quality
    -Light shafts
    -Ambient occlusion
    -Object detail
    -V-sync
    -FOV (a slider, with no listed value)
    -UI margins
    -Toggleable highlighting of “searchable” or “important” objects
    An Irrational developer told me that Infinite is running on DirectX 10, but that it does take advantage of some DX11 features

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by luukdeman111 View Post
    To be honest... If it wasn't for directX 11 I would still be using XP.... It's not as obsolete as you might think, it basically has all the features windows 7 has except for the extra security nonsense....
    I wouldn't call it nonsense, vista was nonsense, and Windows 8.. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!

  18. #18
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    Vista is stable now.

    The rule with Windows is: "Never be an early-adopter of even-numbered iterations. Wait for SP1 or SP2 to come out. Odd-numbered iterations are usually good right out of the gate."

  19. #19
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    Stable and the flock went to 7, that's showbiz.

    and Micro$oft's motto is "if its not broken let's fix it!"

  20. #20
    2K Games, Irrational Games this makes me extremely happy that the PC version of BioShock Infinite has no Digital Rights Managment (DRM) such as Games for Windows Live (GFWL) and SecuROM I hope a DRM FREE version is released on gog.com and i hope the physical boxed copy sold at retailer stores has no DRM at all I know it won't be using Games for Windows Live (GFWL) and SecuROM but please make it to also not use Steam/Steam Works let the Steam version be sold specifically on Steam only. I like buying physical boxed copies to have a collection on my shelf if they have any type of DRM such as Games for Windows Live (GFWL), SecuROM, Steam, Origin, or Uplay then I don't buy it I buy it on Steam only if it's Steam Works and no other type of DRM then I buy the physical boxed copy from retailer stores if they are DRM FREE and off of gog.com.

    Seeing that the PC version of BioShock Infinite has no Games for Windows Live (GFWL) and SecuROM I will buy the physical boxed copy from retailer stores if it is absolutely 100% DRM FREE meaning no Steam Works I will also buy off of gog.com if that happens and a version off of Steam. But please keep Steam Works on Steam only not the physical boxed copy.

    Here is where I got my news from http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/21/bi...ve-or-securom/

    2K Games, Irrational Games this is why we need mod tools and map tools for the PC version of BioShock Infinite. Please please release mod tools and map tools for the PC version of BioShock Infinite so modders can make their own custom meshes, skins, textures, total conversion mods, and custom levels/maps. It is very difficult for modders to make these things without official mod tools and map tools they have to use 3rd party software/utilities for making mods like TexMod.

    Please make PC gamers visions come true especially for the ones who mod such as my self. Mods also create jobs if a modder shares a mod he/she made by themselves or with a team and it becomes well done, famous, and downloaded millions of times they have the potential of being hired by major video game development companies.

    Arkane Studios hires people from the modding community. They hired some guy who made a missions mod or something like that for Thief 2 he has been working at the Arkane Austin, Texas Studio for 5 years.

    CD Projekt RED hires people from the modding community. Some person made a very well done patch for The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings and he now works on making Patches/Updates for CD Projekt RED.

    Bethesda Game Studios hires people from the modding community of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas (made by Obsidian Entertainment not Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks), The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

    Epic Games hires people from the modding community http://epicgames.com/community/2012/...ment-part-one/

    ID Software I believe hires people from the modding community.

    VALVe hires people from the modding community.

    Wouldn't 2K Games like it if Irrational Games released mod tools and map tools for the PC version of BioShock Infinite and find very talented modders that end up getting hired by Irrational Games or who ever?

  21. #21
    The Mod'ing feature may be difficult because of the customization put on the Unreal Engine (which would require comparable customization to the tool sets for most of the assets, AND making proper tool interfaces/documentation useable by players - useability and bombproofing is ALOT of work). That all costs money that the company may have no desire to spend (even with some tradeoff of more sales (hard to prove ahead of time) to make it pay for itself it requires more money/time/risk up front).

    It also can run contrary to producing any sequel, where most of the game mechanics are the same and it is largely more level content with whatever plot they come up with. DLC add-ons ditto.

    The new 'tear' mechanism also may be a issue for Mod'ing because it is animations choreographed into the level scenery and may not be easy to Mod. We havent seen the actual game yet to see if many of the 'tears' are actually repetative and/or mostly less-spectactular than the few we've been shown on the trailers (many may be 'make ABC spawn at XYZ'). The terrain as object (all the floaty bits alot less static than in older games) might also complicate things - making it more difficult to create levels.

    Its also a bit late to add it to a game a few months away from release (the decision should have been at initial design time as fixing up tools to make them easier to use might have made in-house building of the game assets somewhat easier (but after the delay to make the tools work properly). Elsewhere I talk of having Player Created Assets (all types) as a significant feature for an MMORPG, but that would tap into players Mod'ing over many years for the game (and slower incremental additions). It would face the same 'front-end' tool development expenses that will likely doom such an idea in our fossilized game industry.

    --

    As for adding Moding as some channel to find future employees, its a indirect/longshot/far-off-payback that likely would be no real consideration for the company's decision.

    .

  22. #22
    The modding feature is not that difficult Unreal Engine 3 automatically comes with modding tools such as the Unreal Development Kit (UDK) and Unreal Ed it is really not all that difficult to release modding tools I made a topic like this for Dishonored and the producer of Dishonored from Arkane Studios sent me a private message telling me it is not all that difficult they just need to clean up bugs then they can easily release one it already has the proper tool interfaces/documentation available and easy to use by players. Yes useability and bombproofing is alot of work but not as much as you think it can take any where from 1 month to 3 months to clean up bugs from the Source Code and then release a finished product. Of course it costs money but not as much as you think only about $500,000 to $1,000,000 or at least that is what I read from a person who used to work for a publisher same with updating graphics to modern standards and you might know him from gametrailers.com Marcus Beer.

    It also can run contrary to producing any sequel, where most of the game mechanics are the same and it is largely more level content with whatever plot they come up with. DLC add-ons ditto.

    This is not really true.

    Its also a bit late to add it to a game a few months away from release (the decision should have been at initial design time as fixing up tools to make them easier to use might have made in-house building of the game assets somewhat easier (but after the delay to make the tools work properly). Elsewhere I talk of having Player Created Assets (all types) as a significant feature for an MMORPG, but that would tap into players Mod'ing over many years for the game (and slower incremental additions). It would face the same 'front-end' tool development expenses that will likely doom such an idea in our fossilized game industry.

    Nope it is not late Bethesda Game Studios said that The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim was gonna get the Creation Kit released on November 11th 2011 same release date as Skyrim then they delayed it until Febuary and people asked if it interferes with DLC development and the main game itsel such as getting bug fixes in Patches/Updates and the PR said no it does not cause they have separate teams working on all of the current and future projects.

    As for adding Moding as some channel to find future employees, its a indirect/longshot/far-off-payback that likely would be no real consideration for the company's decision.

    I am confused with this part. Whad do you mean? Every video game development company started out as a indie video game development company then became huge and gets funded by publishers and all of them hire talented modders. Infact hiring modders is one of the biggest part along side hiring graduates from colleges/universities.

  23. #23
    I am confused with this part. Whad do you mean? Every video game development company started out as a indie video game development company then became huge and gets funded by publishers and all of them hire talented modders. Infact hiring modders is one of the biggest part along side hiring graduates from colleges/universities.

    ---------------
    Please make PC gamers visions come true especially for the ones who mod such as my self. Mods also create jobs if a modder shares a mod he/she made by themselves or with a team and it becomes well done, famous, and downloaded millions of times they have the potential of being hired by major video game development companies.

    Arkane Studios hires people from the modding community. They hired some guy who made a missions mod or something like that for Thief 2 he has been working at the Arkane Austin, Texas Studio for 5 years.

    CD Projekt RED hires people from the modding community. Some person made a very well done patch for The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings and he now works on making Patches/Updates for CD Projekt RED.

    Bethesda Game Studios hires people from the modding community of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas (made by Obsidian Entertainment not Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks), The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

    Epic Games hires people from the modding community http://epicgames.com/community/2012/...ment-part-one/

    ID Software I believe hires people from the modding community.

    VALVe hires people from the modding community.

    Wouldn't 2K Games like it if Irrational Games released mod tools and map tools for the PC version of BioShock Infinite and find very talented modders that end up getting hired by Irrational Games or who ever?

    -------------------


    All the above is good for the person who wants a job but not exactly a reason to pay 500k$/1 mill $ + for a Modding Toolset


    --------


    As for it costing that little, it all depends on the extensiveness of the customizations. Isnt UE3 like 5 years old already and might not contain alot of the whizzbang stuff that 2K wanted for Infinite? If so then if there are ALOT of customizations, then comparable customization would be needed for the toolsets (alot more money and time and risk and something that 2K doesnt have as much experience in doing and even more $$$ to pay someone else to do it right). I am talking about a full toolset not some limited skin/meh creator/editors, but something that should be able to do a decent job on a full level with most of the mechanisms the native game has being changeable.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    ---------------
    Please make PC gamers visions come true especially for the ones who mod such as my self. Mods also create jobs if a modder shares a mod he/she made by themselves or with a team and it becomes well done, famous, and downloaded millions of times they have the potential of being hired by major video game development companies.

    Arkane Studios hires people from the modding community. They hired some guy who made a missions mod or something like that for Thief 2 he has been working at the Arkane Austin, Texas Studio for 5 years.

    CD Projekt RED hires people from the modding community. Some person made a very well done patch for The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings and he now works on making Patches/Updates for CD Projekt RED.

    Bethesda Game Studios hires people from the modding community of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas (made by Obsidian Entertainment not Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks), The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

    Epic Games hires people from the modding community http://epicgames.com/community/2012/...ment-part-one/

    ID Software I believe hires people from the modding community.

    VALVe hires people from the modding community.

    Wouldn't 2K Games like it if Irrational Games released mod tools and map tools for the PC version of BioShock Infinite and find very talented modders that end up getting hired by Irrational Games or who ever?

    -------------------


    All the above is good for the person who wants a job but not exactly a reason to pay 500k$/1 mill $ + for a Modding Toolset


    --------


    As for it costing that little, it all depends on the extensiveness of the customizations. Isnt UE3 like 5 years old already and might not contain alot of the whizzbang stuff that 2K wanted for Infinite? If so then if there are ALOT of customizations, then comparable customization would be needed for the toolsets (alot more money and time and risk and something that 2K doesnt have as much experience in doing and even more $$$ to pay someone else to do it right). I am talking about a full toolset not some limited skin/meh creator/editors, but something that should be able to do a decent job on a full level with most of the mechanisms the native game has being changeable.
    Sure it is not exactly a reason to pay $500k or $1 million dollars + for a modding toolset but it would be a very welcoming feature for PC gamers who are modders especially ones who have programming skills.

    Arkane Studios hires people from the modding community. They hired some guy who made a missions mod or something like that for Thief 2 he has been working at the Arkane Austin, Texas Studio for 5 years.

    CD Projekt RED hires people from the modding community. Some person made a very well done patch for The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings and he now works on making Patches/Updates for CD Projekt RED.

    Bethesda Game Studios hires people from the modding community of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas (made by Obsidian Entertainment not Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks), The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

    ID Software I believe hires people from the modding community.

    VALVe hires people from the modding community.

    Wouldn't 2K Games like it if Irrational released mod tools especially the Source Code for the PC version of BioShock Infinite and find very talented modders that end up getting hired by Irrational Games or who ever?

    Counter-Strike was a mod for Half-Life and it is now a full fledged video game which turned into Counter-Strike: Source which turned into Counter-Strike: Global Offensive for sale at retailer stores that still have physical boxed copies for sale as well as places like ebay.com, amazon.com, Steam, etc.

    Garry Newman a modder who made Garry's Mod for Half-Life 2 ended up making Garry's Mod a full fledged video game for retail it was free from 2004 when he started making it to 2006 from 2006 to this day it is for sale on Steam for $10 dollars.

    Dota 2 the Free to Play (F2P) video game from VALVe was a mod for Warcraft and it is now a full fledged video game for sale on Steam for $15 dollars with micro-transactions. I hate Free to Play (F2P) video games though I don't even want to think about buying them ever. Micro-transactions make me sick to my stomach. That is just me though my opinion.

    Dean "Pocket/Rocket" Hall the creator of DayZ which is a mod for ArmA II is now making it a full fledged video game that will soon be available for sale at retailer brick and mortar stores and Steam.

    As I said before 2k and Irrational Games can customize Unreal Engine 3, Unreal Development Kit (UDK), and BioShock Infinite as much as they want even though Unreal Engine 3 is 6 years old there are alot of customizations that can be made for it and Epic Games updates both Unreal Engine 3 and Unreal Development Kit (UDK) at least every month. Yes this goes for a full mod tool set that not only lets you create mods such as skins, textures, total conversion mods, levels/maps, and some small graphic mods but with the release of the Source Code which lets modders who have programming skills add new game mechanics on top of existing ones or remove existing ones and the ability to add new graphics API's and support for them like DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and even DirectX 12 when ever it comes out as well as add support for Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 8, etc.

    If 2K Games and Irrational Games makes $100 million dollars + on BioShock Infinite then why not release mod tools?

  25. #25
    Since this topic is regarding everything.

    2K Games, Irrational Games, and Ken Levine please get rid of Steam Works for the physical boxed copy of the PC version of BioShock Infinite sold at brick and mortar retailer stores leave the Steam version on Steam only.

    I like to buy my physical boxed copies of PC video games from brick and mortar retailer stores because I like owning the physical boxed copies to put as a collection on my shelf I am currently at 200 PC video games on my shelf and I only buy them if they are Digital Rights Management (DRM) free meaning they have to have absolutely 0 copy protection.

    I hope Ken Levine or who ever reads this.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    Since this topic is regarding everything.

    2K Games, Irrational Games, and Ken Levine please get rid of Steam Works for the physical boxed copy of the PC version of BioShock Infinite sold at brick and mortar retailer stores leave the Steam version on Steam only.

    I like to buy my physical boxed copies of PC video games from brick and mortar retailer stores because I like owning the physical boxed copies to put as a collection on my shelf I am currently at 200 PC video games on my shelf and I only buy them if they are Digital Rights Management (DRM) free meaning they have to have absolutely 0 copy protection.

    I hope Ken Levine or who ever reads this.
    Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic. It's not gonna happen.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkreng View Post
    Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic. It's not gonna happen.
    If this never happens I will be pissed I would literately of bought 20 physical boxed copies of the PC version of BioShock Infinite from brick and mortar retailer stores since I have $2,000 dollars saved up for this year to buy what ever I want. That's $1,200 I really would of done this.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    If this never happens I will be pissed I would literately of bought 20 physical boxed copies of the PC version of BioShock Infinite from brick and mortar retailer stores since I have $2,000 dollars saved up for this year to buy what ever I want. That's $1,200 I really would of done this.
    Forgive this question if it seems noobish, but why would you buy 20 copies of the same game? Is that a modder thing?

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by laforzadimente View Post
    Forgive this question if it seems noobish, but why would you buy 20 copies of the same game? Is that a modder thing?
    Maybe it is a modder thing. But it is also to show support to the video game publishing company and video game development company how much I appreciate them for treating us PC gamers with all these features I (we) ask for like giving us physical boxed copies for sale at brick and mortar retailer stores to be Digital Rights Management (DRM) free 0 copy protection that is why I would buy so many copies and even more if they released mod tools.

  30. #30
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    Well, that settles it, I guess IG is just going to have to delay Bioshock again because if it doesn't include these features its going to suck

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jezz555 View Post
    Well, that settles it, I guess IG is just going to have to delay Bioshock again because if it doesn't include these features its going to suck
    I wouldn't mind I can wait for BioShock Infinite to be released later the world isn't gonna end right now. BioShock Infinite doesn't suck because it doesn't have all these features but I as a PC gamer would be happy to get them all. The PC version of BioShock Infinite already has DirectX 11 it has been confirmed it just does not have all the DirectX 11 features.

    Also Digital Rights Management (DRM) or copy protection is a plague on us especially for the people who like to go to brick and mortar retailer stores and like to buy the physical boxed video games. Video games on consoles you can go to brick and mortar retailer stores and buy them new and return them back for a full refund if you didn't like that video game or you can buy used video games and sell them back later if you didn't enjoy them or got bored with them why shouldn't PC gamers be treated the same way?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    Maybe it is a modder thing. But it is also to show support to the video game publishing company and video game development company how much I appreciate them for treating us PC gamers with all these features I (we) ask for
    I sort of get where you're coming from. One of my favorite musicians released his first solo CD a few months ago and I bought the CD. I liked it so much and I travel a lot so I bought a second copy so that I can keep it in my travel bag and listen to it in the rental cars without having to worry about the logistics of always remembering to taking the original with me and putting it back.

    I didn't have any issue buying a second CD because I knew I was supporting the artist I love....but I have a use for both CDs. What are you going to do with the other 19 copies? You might as well just write IG a check unless you plan to sell them later.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by laforzadimente View Post
    I sort of get where you're coming from. One of my favorite musicians released his first solo CD a few months ago and I bought the CD. I liked it so much and I travel a lot so I bought a second copy so that I can keep it in my travel bag and listen to it in the rental cars without having to worry about the logistics of always remembering to taking the original with me and putting it back.

    I didn't have any issue buying a second CD because I knew I was supporting the artist I love....but I have a use for both CDs. What are you going to do with the other 19 copies? You might as well just write IG a check unless you plan to sell them later.
    Well with the other 19 Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed copies I get from the brick and mortar retailer stores I can give them to friends or family members as gifts for Easter, their birthdays, or Christmas or I can just give it to them if they don't have money saved up to buy video games or can't save up money and have to use the money they have saved for paying bills such as electricity, food, gas for their cars, and water bills. I can also just keep them on my shelf where I have 200 physical boxed Digital Rights Management (DRM) free copies so I would have 220 up from 200.

    Either way if they sell the physical boxed copies Digital Rights Management (DRM) free no Steam Works on them at brick and mortar retailer stores I would buy a bunch of copies just to support both the video game publishing company's and video game development company's in this case 2K Games and Irrational Games.

    In return 2K Games and Irrational Games will get more money funded to make BioShock 4 or whatever the next BioShock is called or whatever new video game Irrational Games will be working on in the future and give us PG gamers all these features that I ask for as standard built the video game engine and video game with modding to give us mod support and mod tools and physical boxed copies sold at brick and mortar retailer stores from the ground up in mind.

  34. #34
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    @Ballowers100

    You sure do like to say "Brick and mortar retailer stores" never heard of that before....

    I laughed when you stated that you have $2,000 to spend on whatever and will not spend it on Bioshock Infinite because of DRM / Steamworks and will gladly spend that if IG gets rid of that.... this reminds me of Donald Trump scandal with Obama....

    Anyways I understand your point that you hate DRM but it has been used for PC gaming for many years and I don't see it going away... Developers / Publishing companies want to make money and decided to stick with it.... though why can't it be an offline activation code instead of having to use the Internet but then again PC users should have access to the Internet anyways otherwise they wouldn't be gaming...

    I know the whole "Used Video Games Market" (at least for this generation of video games not the very old video games) is going downhill as gaming companies are trying their best to restrict people by not accessing parts or all of the game when the Video game disc / code(s) have been used...

    It seems these days that Internet activation is common.... use to be a offline code or some sorts or the disc has to be in the DVD / CD-ROM drive while playing the video game
    Last edited by Vyndeleron; 01-08-2013 at 09:51 AM.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeleron View Post
    @Ballowers100

    You sure do like to say "Brick and mortar retailer stores" never heard of that before....

    I laughed when you stated that you have $2,000 to spend on whatever and will not spend it on Bioshock Infinite because of DRM / Steamworks and will gladly spend that if IG gets rid of that.... this reminds me of Donald Trump scandal with Obama....
    . But lets get serious Digital Rights Management (DRM) or any type of copy protection is a plague for loyal paying customers who like to buy their physical boxed video games from brick and mortar retailer stores.

    Sure digital distribution services like Steam are good and sound cool because of their discounts and sales such as the Steam Holiday Sales, Steam Daily Sales, Steam Flash Sales, and the newly introduced (Introduced in summer of 2012) Steam Summer Sales.

    But digital should not be the future at all people still like owning physical boxed video games and some people still don't have internet in many countries around the world some people don't have internet because it is to expensive for them and would rather save their money to pay off bills like electricity, food, gas for their cars, water, etc. Some people also have download caps for each month like 10MB or 10GB and some people just have really bad internet connections like if you have NetZero which is $10 a month.

    NetZero for $10 a month is so slow if you download a video game like BioShock Infinite off of Steam it would take you a week to download I know I have had it 10 years ago it was really slow.

    Do you agree with anything I just said?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    . But lets get serious Digital Rights Management (DRM) or any type of copy protection is a plague for loyal paying customers who like to buy their physical boxed video games from brick and mortar retailer stores.

    Sure digital distribution services like Steam are good and sound cool because of their discounts and sales such as the Steam Holiday Sales, Steam Daily Sales, Steam Flash Sales, and the newly introduced (Introduced in summer of 2012) Steam Summer Sales.

    But digital should not be the future at all people still like owning physical boxed video games and some people still don't have internet in many countries around the world some people don't have internet because it is to expensive for them and would rather save their money to pay off bills like electricity, food, gas for their cars, water, etc. Some people also have download caps for each month like 10MB or 10GB and some people just have really bad internet connections like if you have NetZero which is $10 a month.

    NetZero for $10 a month is so slow if you download a video game like BioShock Infinite off of Steam it would take you a week to download I know I have had it 10 years ago it was really slow.

    Do you agree with anything I just said?
    Yeah I agree with something you said but to a certain extent.... though Bioshock Infinite would require a decent computer not some pre-built thing you get at some "brick and mortar retailer store" lol..... why not get it for X-box 360 and/or PS3... technology these days are usually useless without some sort of Internet access just having the thought of getting a console like X-box 360 , PS3, or a Wii-U for someone but that person doesn't have Internet is a insult / bad present in my opinion...

    I did like the whole owning a physical box of the video game but for example when I got Diablo 3 (box version) I just decided to type in the activation code to my account and forgot about the disc and just downloaded the game... typically when I know a certain video game has updates and such for it then I don't bother installing the video game via disc... I do see it happening that digital distribution is becoming common at least for PC.... with the other consoles like X-box 360 providing digital games I just find it more convenient to get it digital than going to a retailer... (sometimes Digital costs more than actually going to a retailer)
    Last edited by Vyndeleron; 01-08-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    [...] digital should not be the future [...]
    It is the future. Not even a "maybe" anymore.

    Arguing it shouldn't be, is just a waste of energy. It's like the Wooly Mammoths insisting that the ice age shouldn't have ended.

    in many countries around the world some people don't have internet because it is to expensive for them [...]
    If the internet is that expensive to them, then I doubt they can afford computers capable fo running AAA-budget titles anyway.

    Some people also have download caps for each month like 10MB or 10GB and some people just have really bad internet connections like if you have NetZero which is $10 a month. NetZero for $10 a month is so slow if you download a video game like BioShock Infinite off of Steam it would take you a week to download I know I have had it 10 years ago it was really slow.
    Ten years ago, you'd be talkign about dial-up.

    You can get Verizon DSL for 1.1 to 1.5 Mbit download speeds, for only $30/month.

    And if you can't afford that ... as I said just now, you probably can't afford the kind of PC you'd need to play the big-budget games, anyway. Buy a console instead, and check out GameFly.com ...

    Do you agree with anything I just said?
    No, no I do not.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    I can give them to friends or family members as gifts for Easter, their birthdays, or Christmas or I can just give it to them if they don't have money saved up to buy video games or can't save up money and have to use the money they have saved for paying bills such as electricity, food, gas for their cars, and water bills.
    Fair enough. Just seems odd to me since I don't even know 19 people I like enough to buy something worth $60 for let alone the smaller subset of that same group that would even want to play video games or know how to (ie grandma). But hey, it's your money.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    . But lets get serious Digital Rights Management (DRM) or any type of copy protection is a plague for loyal paying customers who like to buy their physical boxed video games from brick and mortar retailer stores.

    Sure digital distribution services like Steam are good and sound cool because of their discounts and sales such as the Steam Holiday Sales, Steam Daily Sales, Steam Flash Sales, and the newly introduced (Introduced in summer of 2012) Steam Summer Sales.

    But digital should not be the future at all people still like owning physical boxed video games and some people still don't have internet in many countries around the world some people don't have internet because it is to expensive for them and would rather save their money to pay off bills like electricity, food, gas for their cars, water, etc. Some people also have download caps for each month like 10MB or 10GB and some people just have really bad internet connections like if you have NetZero which is $10 a month.

    NetZero for $10 a month is so slow if you download a video game like BioShock Infinite off of Steam it would take you a week to download I know I have had it 10 years ago it was really slow.

    Do you agree with anything I just said?
    As Pax said. Digital distribution IS going to be the future(heck, on PC it already makes up a significant part of all game sales). And while piracy is still an issue, DRM is going to be a part of that future. Honestly, Steam is very much at the better end of the DRM spectrum, we could be doing/have done a lot worse.

    And the whole slow/expensive internet thing really isn't an argument since you can still install the game of the disc. You only need Steam to activate it. And if you set up offline mode you won't ever have to connect to the internet on that PC to play BS:I.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballowers100 View Post
    I wouldn't mind I can wait for BioShock Infinite to be released later the world isn't gonna end right now. BioShock Infinite doesn't suck because it doesn't have all these features but I as a PC gamer would be happy to get them all. The PC version of BioShock Infinite already has DirectX 11 it has been confirmed it just does not have all the DirectX 11 features.

    Also Digital Rights Management (DRM) or copy protection is a plague on us especially for the people who like to go to brick and mortar retailer stores and like to buy the physical boxed video games. Video games on consoles you can go to brick and mortar retailer stores and buy them new and return them back for a full refund if you didn't like that video game or you can buy used video games and sell them back later if you didn't enjoy them or got bored with them why shouldn't PC gamers be treated the same way?
    If you're just going to re-gift the game to somebody else you may as well just tell them to pirate it as you're already depriving IG of their money and the end result is essentially the same.(not that I'm advocating that sort of thing)

    really no offense but PC gamers are so whiny these days

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