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Thread: When to get artifacts

  1. #1
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    When to get artifacts

    In my opinion this could help new players or average players that still have problems or aren't sure with artifacts. The artifacts most of the times have the same effect but that is better with more cities. I will post here a list to know when to get these artifacts if possible when you know where they are, waiting maybe one tile next to the artifact:

    Confucius's School: This gives you 2 great people free. Take this as fast as possible or after you got your milestone. I mean, you produce for example 3 per turn. You are 144/150. You should wait two turns and get the school. If you take the two great people before you get your great person you could have problems. If you wait, you have 3 people in the same turn, a really good bonus.

    Lost city of Atlantis: This gives you three technologies, as you should know the 3 cheapest. In my opinion when you can get this, you should research all these technologies, first:

    Alphabet (20)
    Pottery (20)
    Masonry (30)
    Horseback riding (20)
    Bronze working (20)
    Iron working (30)
    Ceremonial burial (30)

    So, you wouldn't get one of these technologies free, that are useless to get free while you could get engeneering. I would suggest to wait the best technologies possible to do this.

    Seven cities of gold: In my opinion this is the best artifact of the ancient era. This gives you 200 gold in the ancient era with a cost of 2*1. This would mean 100 hammers free. In the medieval era, this means 250 gold for 3*1, 100 hammers free. You are american? Ok, medieval era, 250 gold, cost of 1*1. 250 hammers. This saves you in case you have no gold, you can rush many settlers, you can rush armies, galleons, wonders.
    That gives you 200-250-300-400 depending on the era.

    I suggest to get this in the ancient era.

    Ark of Covenant: As for other wonders, in my opinion you should wait for many cities. Temples free in every city is really good to get a culture boost. You could wait if you want for 2-3 temples getting a free cathedral, however if you are using Aztecs, this could change really the game. Culture and 3 science for them is really a good bonus.

    I suggest to have temples if possible or to get this when you have many cities (for example using romans and having 15 cities.)

    Knights Templar: This could be the best artifact if got in the first 10 turns. Having a militia and a unit with 6 attack (8 on hill) could mean getting capitals free. In the medieval era you get a cannon and in the industrial era you should get a tank. I suggest to take this as fast as possible, or if you want, you could wait for the tank having 2 tanks free (combustion + templar)
    Last edited by MorteEterna; 11-13-2008 at 03:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    In my opinion this could help new players or average players that still have problems or aren't sure with artifacts. The artifacts most of the times have the same effect but that is better with more cities. I will post here a list to know when to get these artifacts if possible when you know where they are, waiting maybe one tile next to the artifact:

    Confucio's School: This gives you 2 great people free. Take this as fast as possible or after you got your milestone. I mean, you produce for example 3 per turn. You are 144/150. You should wait two turns and get the school. If you take the two great people before you get your great person you could have problems. If you wait, you have 3 people in the same turn, a really good bonus.

    .

    Ark of Alliance: As for other wonders, in my opinion you should wait for many cities. Temples free in every city is really good to get a culture boost. You could wait if you want for 2-3 temples getting a free cathedral, however if you are using Aztecs, this could change really the game. Culture and 3 science for them is really a good bonus.

    I suggest to have temples if possible or to get this when you have many cities (for example using romans and having 15 cities.)
    its called school of confucus and ark of the covenant

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    He's Italian so you can forgive a bit of translation errors.

    Anyways I pretty much agree with this, though I think its 200g in ancient era, not 250 for the seven cities. Least that's what I got last game when I found it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Panguin View Post
    He's Italian so you can forgive a bit of translation errors.

    Anyways I pretty much agree with this, though I think its 200g in ancient era, not 250 for the seven cities. Least that's what I got last game when I found it.
    It was night

    I'm editing it, however I knew the names. I will try to see if that's 200, now I'm confused

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    I say get get them ASAP or someone else will!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJo_Dancer View Post
    I say get get them ASAP or someone else will!
    Again, in the other thread you said the opposite of what I said (with many answers and other things about why to do that).

    Now, I told you why to get them later if not early, why should I hear you?

    Uhm, atlantis to get three stupid technologies, free, that's what you mean? You can wait many turns before your enemy comes there (and you can see that obviously). If you got a galleon free, you will be the first to get this many times. I don't see why I should waste an artifact to get 3 stupid technologies. In a game I got engeneering, feudalism and another one free instead of ceremonial burial, masonry, and other things. I didn't lose the race, but got a lot of bonuses, instead of wasting more turns to get these technologies.

    For the Ark of covenant, the same, if you have few cities and get this, you really can't play so much. That's every time in a insland with many tiles, you can wait with militia and one with a galley will move 2 per turn so you can get it in case they move to it.

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    I had an aztec dude that was camping on the ark of the covenant in one game, probably waiting for more cities, or perhaps a temple to finish.

    I snatched it in front of his eyes with my fast-moving galleons, and he never got anything from it. In addition, he wasted lots of turns where he could have explored more with that galley...

    I never care much about waiting for any of the wonders, except for Atlantis... I might wait one turn on the ark, but I'd rather get on with my exploration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eireksten View Post
    I had an aztec dude that was camping on the ark of the covenant in one game, probably waiting for more cities, or perhaps a temple to finish.

    I snatched it in front of his eyes with my fast-moving galleons, and he never got anything from it. In addition, he wasted lots of turns where he could have explored more with that galley...

    I never care much about waiting for any of the wonders, except for Atlantis... I might wait one turn on the ark, but I'd rather get on with my exploration.
    As I said one should take care about that when he waits, and getting 40 hammers free isn't a huge bonus. Getting maybe 200 hammers free is better

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    As I said one should take care about that when he waits, and getting 40 hammers free isn't a huge bonus. Getting maybe 200 hammers free is better
    Yes, but leaving them to the opponent you lose 80-240 hammers in his/her favour. The artifacts are really a matter of luck. I'd rather get it than to risk to leave it to someone else. I am not a gambler as you may understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelasso View Post
    Yes, but leaving them to the opponent you lose 80-240 hammers in his/her favour. The artifacts are really a matter of luck. I'd rather get it than to risk to leave it to someone else. I am not a gambler as you may understand.
    If you aren't sure you could get these, but I would prefer to take a little risk and getting a huge bonus doing this.

    I would take risk about the ark however, I know when he is coming there, but not so much about atlantis. Losing 3 technologies, and if he is ahead means going to lose.

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    I have to say that the ark is the only one I'll sit by. I will sit my galley to one side of it and my militia to the other so that any galley that gets close (still one turn or more away) is visible. Then I dedicate all resources that I can safely devote to increasing number of cities and ideally getting at least 3 temples. Waiting six or seven turns and then getting it after building/buying three temples and expanding as much as is safely possible creates a massive culture bonus for your civ. Usually you can also reason where the other player (AI never seems to be an issue) will come from in terms of setting up your scouting.

    With Atlantis you usually can find its location with galleys and then while your first galleon is in transit work to knock out the quick/easy techs you left behind. Often it's a good 5 or 6 turn trip from your city its built in so you have some time.
    Last edited by Gnatty-; 10-02-2008 at 10:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnatty- View Post
    I have to say that the ark is the only one I'll sit by. I will sit my galley to one side of it and my militia to the other so that any galley that gets close (still one turn or more away) is visible. Then I dedicate all resources that I can safely devote to increasing number of cities and ideally getting at least 3 temples. Waiting six or seven turns and then getting it after building/buying three temples and expanding as much as is safely possible creates a massive culture bonus for your civ.
    Yeah that's true. I wait a few turns on that one. But waiting on anything else is sketchy.

  13. #13
    Lol at paranoid people.


    I pretty much wait on all of them.
    Getting atlantis while your in the middle of researching a technology can be dumb as it often researches that. I will often get the 1 turn techs b4 jumping on it because getting writing can be pretty sloppy.
    However I love getting Atlantis early with like Spanish where it can give you like irrigation for free instantly.


    With arc ill wait and often buy temples and start building them in some cities. But its really dependent on alot of factors.

    I also hold off on night templer if it isn't very early till industrial you can get industrial very very quickly and getting a tank way in the bc is very good.
    I then normally roam with it destroying stuff to try and get it alot of the upgrades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notconquerable View Post
    Lol at paranoid people.


    I pretty much wait on all of them.
    Getting atlantis while your in the middle of researching a technology can be dumb as it often researches that. I will often get the 1 turn techs b4 jumping on it because getting writing can be pretty sloppy.
    However I love getting Atlantis early with like Spanish where it can give you like irrigation for free instantly.


    With arc ill wait and often buy temples and start building them in some cities. But its really dependent on alot of factors.

    I also hold off on night templer if it isn't very early till industrial you can get industrial very very quickly and getting a tank way in the bc is very good.
    I then normally roam with it destroying stuff to try and get it alot of the upgrades.
    No, that's not "often", that's ALWAYS, starting from the 3 cheapest technologies.

    With chinese however for example, or arabs, reaching fast the industrial era (with arabs you can if you rushed others) and with chinese you have a unit with 15 attack. Arabs have 16,5

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    No, that's not "often", that's ALWAYS, starting from the 3 cheapest technologies.

    With chinese however for example, or arabs, reaching fast the industrial era (with arabs you can if you rushed others) and with chinese you have a unit with 15 attack. Arabs have 16,5
    Yeah my often is preety much always can't remember when I don't. but I tend to not use absolute terms on forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    In my opinion this could help new players or average players that still have problems or aren't sure with artifacts. The artifacts most of the times have the same effect but that is better with more cities. I will post here a list to know when to get these artifacts if possible when you know where they are, waiting maybe one tile next to the artifact:

    Confucus's School: This gives you 2 great people free. Take this as fast as possible or after you got your milestone. I mean, you produce for example 3 per turn. You are 144/150. You should wait two turns and get the school. If you take the two great people before you get your great person you could have problems. If you wait, you have 3 people in the same turn, a really good bonus.
    I would say just get them, for the sheer fact you still have to transport them to your city. Reguarless if you wait you still are going to get the the third GP. Those two GP are free, so it should not effect your culture output for aquiring the third GP. The reason I say this is the two free GP, will be that many turns closer to your city, then waiting for the culture points to accumalate to get the third GP.

    Unless I am missing something here, because I have never had the GP from confucius school appear at my city when discovered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix49G View Post
    I would say just get them, for the sheer fact you still have to transport them to your city. Reguarless if you wait you still are going to get the the third GP. Those two GP are free, so it should not effect your culture output for aquiring the third GP. The reason I say this is the two free GP, will be that many turns closer to your city, then waiting for the culture points to accumalate to get the third GP.

    Unless I am missing something here, because I have never had the GP from confucius school appear at my city when discovered.
    No, it does change. If you need 2 turns you should wait there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrix49G View Post
    Those two GP are free, so it should not effect your culture output for aquiring the third GP.
    No, what Morte says is good advice: if you are close to getting your culture based GP you should wait until you have them, because getting the School GPs alters your culture milestones. If you were in the situation Morte described, and got the School without waiting, you definitely wouldn't then get another GP in 2 turns...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    No, it does change. If you need 2 turns you should wait there.
    Guess I need to test that.

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    Has anyone calculated the offset of waiting? While your galley and militia are protecting the Arc or whichever you're burning turns needed to find the other artifacts, and using resources to build new cities or temples that could have been used to defend or dominate. Maybe it's more valuable to just consume these artifacts and hurry on to the next one before your opponent does.

    I'm just playing devil's advocate mostly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NominalAeon View Post
    Has anyone calculated the offset of waiting? While your galley and militia are protecting the Arc or whichever you're burning turns needed to find the other artifacts, and using resources to build new cities or temples that could have been used to defend or dominate. Maybe it's more valuable to just consume these artifacts and hurry on to the next one before your opponent does.

    I'm just playing devil's advocate mostly.
    if you have one city and your france this is useless....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    if you have one city and your france this is useless....
    Obviously. However, with aztecs you get more bonuses that french with cathedrals. And as I said, you can get cathedrals with all civs, that's not a problem. Once I tried that with arabs and I had some cathedrals, plus +1 culture bonus, I didn't rush temples if I'm not wrong but I was banking hammers.

    Aztecs, have a huge culture and huge science with that

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    Obviously. However, with aztecs you get more bonuses that french with cathedrals. And as I said, you can get cathedrals with all civs, that's not a problem. Once I tried that with arabs and I had some cathedrals, plus +1 culture bonus, I didn't rush temples if I'm not wrong but I was banking hammers.

    Aztecs, have a huge culture and huge science with that
    ..................but they start with a cathedral, they are culture geniuses....lol..

    .....they start with a strong culture, and continue with a strong culture....



    ..oh by the way you cities need to be 4 or more population to spread culture...(Borders)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    ..................but they start with a cathedral, they are culture geniuses....lol..

    .....they start with a strong culture, and continue with a strong culture....



    ..oh by the way you cities need to be 4 or more population to spread culture...(Borders)
    Can you explain this? You can have 1 pop and spread culture, what are you talking about? It seems in almost every thread you say one thing really impossible, as for ground units that can attack planes. If a city have these, you should go into the city with no battles, I have never seen other cases

    French could be the best in culture, but you can't win with that, without any good starting bonuses. Almost every civ has a bonus to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    Can you explain this? You can have 1 pop and spread culture, what are you talking about? It seems in almost every thread you say one thing really impossible, as for ground units that can attack planes. If a city have these, you should go into the city with no battles, I have never seen other cases

    French could be the best in culture, but you can't win with that, without any good starting bonuses. Almost every civ has a bonus to survive.
    pottery, for the wall.......................................

    what if you get a great builder, and build the great wall....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    pottery, for the wall.......................................

    what if you get a great builder, and build the great wall....
    Yes, all these things in few turns, before a zulu comes with a warrior army, or arabs/aztecs with an horsemen army.

    Please, you are talking about a huge luck, understand that. Free wall, that's +100%. And again, 0+100%=0. In 5 turns you have the first warrior, in the 10the second and three pop, you need others 5-6 turns or more maybe at least to get masonry, while others could have an horsemen army, horseback, pottery, masonry and near irrigation. Great builder to rush great wall, but I could attack you before, you don't start with it

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    [QUOTE=MorteEterna;350673]Can you explain this? You can have 1 pop and spread culture, what are you talking about? QUOTE]


    well when you have 1, 2 or 3 pop you dont spread culture until you have a city of 4 or more population, look go try it....be france..and you'll see its until 4, and make a new city, far away from anyone, and build a temple, and its not until you have 4 population......


    ..and the planes thing is true......the AI attacked me when i only had fighters and bombers in it.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    Yes, all these things in few turns, before a zulu comes with a warrior army, or arabs/aztecs with an horsemen army.

    Please, you are talking about a huge luck, understand that. Free wall, that's +100%. And again, 0+100%=0. In 5 turns you have the first warrior, in the 10the second and three pop, you need others 5-6 turns or more maybe at least to get masonry, while others could have an horsemen army, horseback, pottery, masonry and near irrigation. Great builder to rush great wall, but I could attack you before, you don't start with it
    why do we have to be so opposite, even console, you play on 360 and im in ps3....lol....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post

    well when you have 1, 2 or 3 pop you dont spread culture until you have a city of 4 or more population, look go try it....be france..and you'll see its until 4, and make a new city, far away from anyone, and build a temple, and its not until you have 4 population......


    ..and the planes thing is true......the AI attacked me when i only had fighters and bombers in it.....
    What are you talking about? Please, don't say these things, with arabs I could have with one pop culture to spread that on boarders. If you don't know these things, don't say that works in that way

    AI can do a lot of things, don't use examples with them, they have a lot of advantages plus a lot of skills more than us.

    PS: I still suggest to wait for artifacts if possible, if you aren't sure to defend them as well, take it, you need only seconds, and the militia can see 2 tiles away (scout), so, you have no problems about this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    why do we have to be so opposite, even console, you play on 360 and im in ps3....lol....
    Would you try a duel? However I don't think there is a player on ps3 that plays as me. Maybe BrokenWarrior was trying to hear my strategies but I'm not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    What are you talking about? Please, don't say these things, with arabs I could have with one pop culture to spread that on boarders. If you don't know these things, don't say that works in that way

    AI can do a lot of things, don't use examples with them, they have a lot of advantages plus a lot of skills more than us.
    i mean spread out, not your working squares........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    i mean spread out, not your working squares........
    And I meant spread out, not my working squares. Working on 2 forests for example there was one culture board on a grassland. That doesn't depend on population but on the culture you spread out since that turn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    Would you try a duel? However I don't think there is a player on ps3 that plays as me. Maybe BrokenWarrior was trying to hear my strategies but I'm not sure.
    mmmmmmmmmm....no am afraid to lose to fast....lol

    ....am too slow....but i am good at culture.....and being challenged.....

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    And I meant spread out, not my working squares. Working on 2 forests for example there was one culture board on a grassland. That doesn't depend on population but on the culture you spread out since that turn.
    really?.....thats never happened to me.....even with other civs...

    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    really?.....thats never happened to me.....even with other civs...

    ....
    Maybe because you couldn't get a good culture fast, however that's not a bug, that happens, you don't need a huge population. Arabs have +1 culture, but with other civs you can simply wait for a better pop or a better culture

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    Maybe because you couldn't get a good culture fast, however that's not a bug, that happens, you don't need a huge population. Arabs have +1 culture, but with other civs you can simply wait for a better pop or a better culture
    so just arabs.......

    then am kinda right.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellogoodbye123 View Post
    so just arabs.......

    then am kinda right.....
    No, you can do that with many civs, why don't you ever understand? Better culture = more culture earlier = more culture spread on borders earlier.

    Arabs have +1 culture each city that helps them, english have monarchy, egypt has a free wonder, and many other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    No, you can do that with many civs, why don't you ever understand? Better culture = more culture earlier = more culture spread on borders earlier.

    Arabs have +1 culture each city that helps them, english have monarchy, egypt has a free wonder, and many other things.
    so am almost kinda right.......


    were just flipping through all 3 posts..heheheh

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    However maybe a good combo could be seven cities plus ark if you really want, perhaps using aztecs that can use the bonus. 200 gold, you rush 3 temples (getting other gold) that is +9 science. You get ark, and that's 3 free cathedrals. I think french can't use that bonus as well and they don't have bonus to get free gold. It depends also on the civ, yes, arabs, aztecs and zulu are really fast to get gold (overrun)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorteEterna View Post
    However maybe a good combo could be seven cities plus ark if you really want, perhaps using aztecs that can use the bonus. 200 gold, you rush 3 temples (getting other gold) that is +9 science. You get ark, and that's 3 free cathedrals. I think french can't use that bonus as well and they don't have bonus to get free gold. It depends also on the civ, yes, arabs, aztecs and zulu are really fast to get gold (overrun)
    from yerterday, istarted liking the zulu, not to rush because i suck at that....but because they get all the bards pretty much, and plus the fast city growth....

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