Finally a Germans strategy
I knew how to play germans really but I haven't tought about writing the strategy, only some tips. Then now I will try to write you what you have to do with playing germans.
Start: Elite units get upgraded automatically
Ancient Era: Warriors start with veteran upgrade
Medieval Era: +1 production from forests
Industrial Era: 1/2 price barracks
Modern Era: 2% interest
The bonuses we should focus on really are the auto upgrade for elite units, this means that each time you get a new technology, obsolate units will get an upgrade (for example when you get iron working warriors become legions).
Then, the warriors start with veteran upgrade and +1 production from forests in the medieval era.
Let's see how you can start:
Work on 2 forests, 4 production per turn and build 2 warriors, if you want 4, try to get as much gold as possible. Then, grow in Berlin and in the new city, that should have at least 2 grasslands, 3 forests and 1-2 water tiles. If there are rushers as aztecs, arabs, zulu, then build warriors to defend yourself and set the first 2/4 warriors on choke points.
Try to get as fast as possible, if you want focusing only on science, pottery, masonry, irrigation, to get free wall in your capital to defend against others, and +1 pop for every city. If you want before this, build another city good as the second one, working on 2 forests - 1 grasslands, in 5 turns you will have 2 pop instead of 1 building the settler.
If you are afraid, go for bronze working first and build 1-2 archers (not the third, or at least don't build the army, let's see why). After you get irrigation and bronze working (research this now), go for alphabet. You will reach medieval era now. Start producing barracks in every city (with 2-3 cities you should do enough), then, build roads if possible to faster the moves.
You should have 200 gold if you explored with 4 warriors, or 100-150 with 2, however try to sell technologies to AI getting gold. Rush barracks if you want in every city after you are half on the way (20/40 for example). Now, start putting all into production, or if you want food, 1 grassland, 3 forests, 1 worker (10 production), but try to have 10 production or more if possible. Each turn normally you should produce 3 warriors with an elite bonus, combine the army and try to get infiltration, march and blitz (if you want also scout). Finish the archer armies first if you think one is going to rush you, then restart producing these warriors, and remember DON'T GET IRON WORKING OR DON'T GET MORE THAN 30 SCIENCE PER TURN, if you do this the strategy won't work. Produce as many warriors as you want, 10 armies are ok for you.
Now, just in case one is going to rush you, try to research as fast as possible iron working, if you want buy it from AI (they go for it really fast). However if they don't do this, reach 10 warrior armies, as fast as possible. Do everything but working on iron working, and if you have more than 30 science you will get it free for the backfilling. After you have the armies, go NOW for IRON WORKING and upgrade your units, then, go for monarchy and then feudalism (obviously try to start this race as fast as possible). You will have 10 knights armies, you can attack others now then, or wait for tanks, but here the strategy ends.
Code of Laws
Feudalism (horseback riding needed).
Until you don't have your 10 warriors armies, be sure you don't have more than 30 science per turn. 25 is ok. Use the scientist to rush monarchy if you want that can help you in the race, getting a new great person, or settle it, if that's since the start. If you want, continue for PANZER, then nothing will stop you, unless the other one has a bigger army.
morte this is an ok strategy not the best from you, you practically say build 10 warrior armies the whole strategy,
you ignore the plus 1 forest, and the 2% gold,
theirs one flaw in this, you wont get the upgrade from warrior to legion until each have upgraded to elite, that means all your amies together would have to go through 30 battles.
also you need ceremonial burial to get monarchy
...and you didnt even comment my strategy...=(
Oh my god.
If you're going to criticize his strategy, at least know what you're talking about. The +1 prod from forests is included in the strat. (He goes to medieval age before building warrior armies.)
The 2% gold only comes in later and is not decisive in this strat.
And in case you didn't know, barracks + German warriors = elite warriors.
He doesn't need Ceremonial burial to get Monarchy because you only need 2 out of 3 prereq's to research a tech.
they start with veteran and barracks gives elite?
Originally Posted by Caboose_Nor
and am just saying this is not his best work, go to his archieves, he says better things on those, he just made this one to have his archieve collection complete...
and he doesnt mention the 2% gold because he doesnt believe in modern era...
I've seen his archive. It's very good. But so is this strategy.
well....i think its because i dont like the germans thats all......their number 16 on my top 16 favorite civs...
Then what are you doing in this thread?
i always wanted to be a critic....specially for music..
but atleast i care, no....others just look at it and leave, i comment
Ok, today I decided to try this in FFA, I tought, come on, I get a lot of bugs and if I lose that would be the same (and, I will say a funny thing later).
I tried this, there were ZULU, spanish and mongols. I rushed a lot of warriors to explore and defend against this zulu player, while I conquered Karakorum with a warrior army. He tried to kill me with one unit but he failed because I had 2 warriors in Berlin. After that he killed spanish and got the free capital. I built a city with 2 grasslands, 3-4 forests, 1 water tile and 1 hill. I built hanging gardens and built my 10 warriors armies. Then I went for feudalism and took his capital with the first of 10 KNIGHTS armies, 2 turns later when I was going to take the other capital, he pressed start and the game told me I was disconnected from xbox live. At that moment I tought, what a .... man.
PS: In my opinion this can work better than other strategies posted by me. I have to post still Indians, Spanish, French (maybe I will try them, for you ), and egypt if I'm not wrong.
This WOULD be a good strategy if it was accurate. You just can't have 10 elite warrior armies. You'd need 10 veteran warriors to each take a barbarian village and them bring them all back to your capital to form elite armies. If you can do this, more power to you, but 10 isn't happening 999/1000 times.
Veteran units don't upgrade, elite units do.
Edit: I'm pretty sure i've had barracks as the germans and didn't produce elite warriors
Last edited by IML Owl; 10-26-2008 at 01:08 AM.
Ok, when you have read the germans bonuses you can edit this post, saying that you were wrong
Originally Posted by IML Owl
Please, don't come here saying I'm wrong every time, you just have to READ the first part to know their warriors start with VETERAN UPGRADE. Veteran + Barracks = ELITE UPGRADE. Elite upgrade means they get auto upgrade.
I've just said the same thing to Hellogoodbye here... Why don't you people read before you criticize?
Morte's right. When you get a great leader and settle them in your city they upgrade your units to veteran. When you add a barracks what happens? Your units become elite. It's the exact same thing for the Germans except their units are already veterans so the upgrade barracks gives makes them elite instead of veteran.
The Germans would be very weak if the only way to get elite units was to hope for a great leader or to fight with every single unit. So here's a suggestion for you Owl! >_>; Actually test things before you say things are wrong.
When I employed this strategy I am almost certain that I needed barracks plus a great leader settled in order to have the auto-elite units. I am going to double check today. The premise, though, is solid. I beelined to feudalism and built the elite knight units and attacked upon researching combustion. Morte's strategy is more streamlined to bring up the elites from warriors. I may be wrong, but I still believe the settling of a great leader is necessary to employ this strategy.
How can you say that if I used this today without great leader? Plus another time on deity. Really I don't say things before I try these, I tried this strategy more than once and I know it works. Barracks + Warriors = Veteran + 3 exp = Elite units. To research combustion I would need to much science, then attacking with knights is enough, and if you want you can go for religion obviously and rush Samurai castle
Originally Posted by schongresh
You are absolutely right. The units I was producing were archers and the bonus doesn't extend to defensive units. The great leader allows the defensive units to receive elite upgrades.
Right. In fact it doesn't extend to anything except Warriors. Only German Warriors start out as veterans, other units don't.
Originally Posted by schongresh
One very important question:
Can I jump straight to knights from warriors if I keep under 30 science?
Or do I have to research Iron working before Feudalism? Maybe you never get this case, but I just did. :] (I had a great scientist.) Then the game froze while I was giving promotions to my warriors. :[
Last edited by Caboose_Nor; 10-27-2008 at 04:07 PM.
You have to research Iron Working before Feudalism or you won't get knights. The same thing happens when you build Leonardo's Workshop, and you have researched Gunpowder but not Democracy, for example. Your archers don't turn into riflemen.
There's a weakness to this strategy. Maybe not just for this strategy, but cultural civs might use a great artist to convert one of my cities pretty early (before I get knights). How do I counter this? Does it help building cities farther away from the cultured civs?
Or do you just keep many of your warrior armies next to every city. (Best solution I can find.)
Doing this strategy I move my warriors in the middle of my cities, then no problem, I get iron working if needed with the other cities or the capital and he lost a great artist.
Originally Posted by Caboose_Nor
wow i play as germany so many times and didnt know this
warriors get elite upgrade with barracks .
this could change everything now but still germans are slow with science
for example once you get feud and knights china could get riflemans easy.
Yeah, their science is not so great. I usually research monarchy and feudalism with about 20 - 30 beakers /turn. And I usually get my knights around 300 - 800 AD.
But even if the chinese already got riflemen: By this time, you will have about 10 - 20 knight ARMIES. Or even more (I sometimes end up with like 30 armies or something). And it takes some time to get only ONE riflemen-army in every city for the chinese.
So, even if they got riflemen already: Don't go for ALL of their cities, but try to attack the capital plus some vital (or very good) cities. Well, the most essential is their capital. First get this one, and as soon as you've got it, take everything you can get then.
I've gotta echo a lot of what's been said, this strat leaves you a little slow in tech and often short on defense. but you've really gotta be sure to moderate how many elite units you produce early on. With the germans you can get some nice production, better than most. If you can hold on to your cities, and hold out for tanks and focus on tech and gold, you can squeak out a win. I'm no pro with the Germans though. I've always felt like the strat is the most powerful one you can go for, but requires such a huge gamble that it's not worth stressing over.
French Neighbors suck..no wonder the Germans hate em
I followed this strategy very tightly and with success. I make sure that I have at east two beakers at start and options for many more. I always tried to get on top of tech race. then when industrial era hits, the game is over.
A few times parked by the French I got culturally squeezed as there isn't much German you could call culture. So, with those failures i have learned to be a little tighter with my cities sacrifising a little courthouse growth, but not allowing squeeze or pinching of two french to one of my cities. If i have a French neighbor, i mix in some culture on tech. However, this often leads to not getting the freebies that are important to German.
I, at first, hated playing German. But once I got the vision, i now look forward to playing German.
Thank you for the good tips and extra work you do to improve. I am rather new to the game and still playing single player. I played my first online, drew Monguls and kicked. Unfortunately, couldn't stay to complete the victory.
I think the science isn't really needed with germans, maybe 25 science per turn, but you should never hit 30 science for the backfilling of iron working. Then, if you are afraid about attacks, simply, go for bronze working, and be sure 10 legions armies or more, will kill enemy units.
Just to echo what has kind of already been said in response to the argument that the Germans are too slow on tech, and that other civs could get riflemen by the time these elite knight armies get sent out -- it honestly doesn't matter. In order to protect a city from 10 knight armies with three elite upgrades apiece (all at least including infiltration, and hopefully blitz), you would probably need 3-4 veteran rifleman armies, and that's assuming there is no hill to attack from. This horde of knights is going to do plenty of damage either way and instantly swing the momentum in your favor, negating whatever deficit you're looking at in terms of tech. The key here is not that they are simply 10 armies...they are 10 elite armies, and you definitely shouldn't underestimate the effectiveness of something like that. If you can't put yourself in the driver's seat with something like that, even if your opponent is somehow already to riflemen (which is doubtful anyway), then you probably don't deserve to win.
Nice strat Morte! I love getting great leaders and settling them in a city with a barracks, then picking and choosing the combinations of elite abilities that each of my armies will have from there on out. With the Germans, every game is like that! I'll definitely take them more seriously from now on, but I won't be giving up the Spanish anytime soon I've been thinking about posting a strat for them on here because no one really meaningfully considers them, and as far as I have seen, no one has posted a decent strategy. Anyone who has played me knows I use them to great effect, so I must be doing something right. Still, I'm not sure I wanna share all my secrets just yet...
do u have to b the first to get fued. to get the knites. cuz i tryed this and had 10 warrior armys with 3 upgrades on each army. so when i got fued. i was not the 1st i was stuck with 10 upgradeds warrior armys.
You have to get it all in order. So first you get your elite warrior armies. Then you research iron working and they'll be upgraded to elite legion armies. THEN and only then, do you research Feudalism and they'll upgrade to knights. It works the same way leonardos workshop does. You have to have each tech in the order you get it, in order for the upgrade to work properly.
about the great leader I looked in the civilopedia thing and the techs for both are iron working and monarchy, no wonder the English always have it, atleast for me in my games, but iron working is to early for this stray and not like the Germans are cultural
oh i guess i over read that very important part of the guide. i was still able to pull it off with a ton of legions tho.
Sometimes legions are enough. Many times you don't need to wait until feudalism to start attacking. 5 or 6 legion armies can do a lot of damage to someone who isn't properly prepared. Besides, no expects the legion attack! I can count the number of times someone has attacked me with legions on one hand.
Sure, by not researching IW and pumping out dozens of knight armies will almost always give you a decisive victory, some legions a bit earlier can give you an insurmountable advantage anyway.
yeah they were pretty upgraded too. i had there attack up to like 30 and the pikemen i was fighting was 27 so it was close but i had a ton of them to spam.
I just used this for the first time. I found out the hard way that if you get ironworking and feudalism in the same turn your units only upgrade to legions This happened because my science was over 30 on the turn I got feudalism. I don't even think if you have feudalism before iron working will work. You probably should stop at Monarchy and get iron working to be sure it works right.
It was enough though to win especially when I surrounded a city with legion armies, then culture flipped it with a saved artist , then rolled over another city with the legion spam.
I only had to beat the one human, I defeated one other early on with veteran warriors on a hill and the other human just left earlier.
I said it, you have to get iron working then feudalism
Originally Posted by polybus
Maybe you should add a small note in the Tech order list though
I guess he could add it to the tech order list, but it is explicitly stated in the strategy, that you shouldn't get Iron Working or go over 30 tech before you have produced enough elite warriors.
Most of the time you don't have to research Iron Working, because it is usually the 2nd tech that the AI goes for. The AI will usually get Bronze Working then Iron Working. Almost always Iron Working can be backfilled, but if you are not producing over 30 beakers and have completed a tech after you have reached the 30 beaker count by the time you get Iron Working then you will not get the upgrade, neither will you get the upgrades if you GS Feudalism if you get Iron Working that same turn.
Leonardo's Workshop works the same way, if you get the tech the same turn as Leo's Workshop, then you won't get the upgrade, and you have to make sure to have all the prerequistes for that the tech, like for Fedualism, if you don't have Monarchy then you won't get knights, or if you don't have Steam Power, Gunpowder, or Metallurgy you won't get Tanks when you get Combustion.
but this is only in play with the German Upgrade scheme or Leo's Workshop.
But what I have found for the upgrading warriors strategy is you need to have a few cities dedicated to just building warriors after you get a barracks, and nothing else. But it's nice to expand out to about 3 or 4 cities, and then get this city, then expand a few more cities if you can, then get a few more cities with barracks spamming warriors.
Also, if you can only get 1 city with a barracks fast, then just get two other non barracks cities producing warriors, this can be done fast because of the +1 production from forests, and then form the armies with 1 elite and 2 non-elite warriors, but it's more powerful if you can have several armies with 3 elite upgrades.
But you need to do this fast, not extremely fast, but you need to be able to spam armies fast and then be able to get your upgrades quick, because the more time you leave, them more time your enemy has to get pikemen, riflemen, and catapults, or they can just leave you in the dust in tech.
I usually try for less armies, maybe 3-5, and then start teching up fast and expanding more, getting my upgrades, and then take a few key cities and hopefully have the advantage that way.
Getting 10 armies upgraded can be powerful, but can be a little slow, and the big risk is taking too long to get the armies out. If you can get 10 armies up to a city, then you should take it, but the problem is getting there, and not getting rushed or pressed before hand.
If you mean only when you get the Leonardo's Workshop, no problem. If you don't mean that, then I would say that you don't need monarchy to build knights
Originally Posted by Grayson