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Thread: Issues with Ideological Pressure

  1. #1
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    Issues with Ideological Pressure

    So, I've played a few games of BNW, and after winning through all of the victory types, I'll have to say that the Culture victory could use some tweaking. This post is not about how Culture is wrong, but just a small part of it.

    I've noticed that it's really easy to bypass the unhappiness caused by an opposing ideology pressuring your people. I mean, the AI has no problem staying happy despite going through a revolutionary wave. You know, if you think about it, if their populace is actively attempting to overthrow them through violent revolt (it is called a revolutionary wave), then there would be virtually no satisfying them until either the protesters or their government are dead. Thus, I think that any civ in a "revolutionary wave" should have an extra penalty to happiness, but not so much that it's impossible to be salvaged. Although, I wouldn't mind it being a punishment for not paying attention to culture/tourism/other ideologies.

    Another thing that I've noticed, a city flipped to me because of my powerful Tourism, but it went through resistance. Honestly, that makes no sense. If they overthrew their local government to be with me, then why are they "resisting"? I think that there shouldn't be any resistance, much like purchasing a CS.

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    There is significant unhappiness associated with not having a 'world' ideology. As for 'city-flipping' I don't know if one should assume violent revolution, a la, Syria, vs Egypt, which is experiencing resistance after undergoing a 'popular' regime change - just saying.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelripper View Post
    There is significant unhappiness associated with not having a 'world' ideology. As for 'city-flipping' I don't know if one should assume violent revolution, a la, Syria, vs Egypt, which is experiencing resistance after undergoing a 'popular' regime change - just saying.
    Why did you put the word popular in quotes? Just curious.

  4. #4
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    I think they've hit a pretty good balance on the unhappiness from ideology. It IS significant, but it is also playable even if you don't have the most popular ideology if you take the appropriate meassures. The fact that it is actually possible to get AI cities to flip although it doesn't happen all the time shows to me that they've balanced things pretty well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelripper View Post
    There is significant unhappiness associated with not having a 'world' ideology. As for 'city-flipping' I don't know if one should assume violent revolution, a la, Syria, vs Egypt, which is experiencing resistance after undergoing a 'popular' regime change - just saying.
    Here's how I see it. Regardless of how they are revolting, they are still revolting. Rebelling to the point of wanting to defect to another nation. This sort of civilian unrest should be a little more serious, I think. I would suggest making the penalty just a little bit greater, because as I had said before, it's pretty easy to dodge the unhappiness penalty.

    EDIT: I just realized that I read your statement wrong!
    About city flipping, the populace has willingly given themselves up to you, much like a purchased CS. Since you don't have to spend a bunch of turns quelling and indoctrinating them like you would normally (seeing as it's implied that they've already adopted your empire's culture and way of life), then there should be no resistance or no need for a Courthouse. Why should you be penalized for having your Tourism work the way it should?
    Last edited by Zoythrus; 08-02-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  6. #6
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    The only thing I wish was different is that it's very abrupt. On a Domination game, I went from having an extra maybe 10 happiness to negative 15 in one turn, just from the "Dissidents" effect. At first I didn't know what happened, it took several minutes for me to notice the -25 modifier (a notification would have been nice), and I didn't have any room for any more local happiness buildings (already having built them all, due to playing Domination) so all I could do is build culture and wait, fighting off the occasional armed uprising near my capital.

    That's all well and good, and it was an interesting challenge when I otherwise would have run away for the win, I just think it could a bit more incremental than -25/-50/-75, when you have a lot of cities.

  7. #7
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    You know, I think that I'd prefer an unhappiness "trickle" and not just a flat penalty. Like, the more your Ideology pressures them (or vice-verse), their happiness would start to dwindle every few turns until they remedy the situation somehow. The stronger the influence, the faster it would decline.

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    After discussing this topic with GeneralY7, we have agreed that "Resistance" should be replaced with "Assimilation," and that peaceful city-flips should take much less time to assimilate than forceful, militaristic occupations.

    Wouldn't you agree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoythrus View Post
    After discussing this topic with GeneralY7, we have agreed that "Resistance" should be replaced with "Assimilation," and that peaceful city-flips should take much less time to assimilate than forceful, militaristic occupations.

    Wouldn't you agree?
    Well, I'm not bothered by the cosmetic bit (the 'resistance' label), but it would be good to have a shorter time. At the moment it's a bit wacky.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamBC View Post
    Well, I'm not bothered by the cosmetic bit (the 'resistance' label), but it would be good to have a shorter time. At the moment it's a bit wacky.
    I just think that "Resistance" doesn't quite state what exactly is happening (or implied to be happening). Why would they be resisting your rule? They willingly flipped to you!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoythrus View Post
    I just think that "Resistance" doesn't quite state what exactly is happening (or implied to be happening). Why would they be resisting your rule? They willingly flipped to you!
    Well, some of them did. Presumably the people who disagree aren't coming quietly. They lost, but they're not surrendering instantly.

  12. #12
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    After the flip, the resistance is now coming from the people who opposed the flip in the first place...

    EDIT: Beat to it by SamBC by seconds...

  13. #13
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    Well, since any remaining resistance is now the minority, there still should be less of a penalty as the city switches hands.

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