Where is the Japanese love?
I've been checking out this forum and haven't seen much favor for Japan. They are one of my faves and I consider them quite dangerous finishers.
With the sea region food advantage they are likely to have booming island/coastal cities. Being anarchy-free makes them very versatile without losing anything. Also, some Loyal Modern Infantry armies can really hold down the fort. These are all significant in the modern era, imo.
i love the japanese theyre my favourite. i switch my plains square to a water tile and get 2 beakers from the first turn, without losing pop growth. love it
Originally Posted by triggerhippie
they are on my top of the list for a kill right after china and egypt hahaha
I'm getting to the point where I don't even list the Japanese as a good civ, just above average. In a peaceful game, or agaisnt AI, they are at their best. but they need too much peace for them to be successful. Any game can have luck and turn even the worst civs into powerhouses, but when I start thinking about what makes a Civ one of the better ones, it's that they can pull off their strategies most of the time no matter what comes up.
I see the Greeks, Aztecs, Chinese, Zulu, and Spanish as the ones that can go into 90% of the games and dictate what their strategy is gonna be.
Most Japanese players tend to get addicted to the food from sea tiles. They overwork tech, and don't defend and attack well. Most also skip one of their most powerful bonuses and don't use the +2 Knights attack, which is a big mistake. I see too many Jap players just teching up to get tanks, when their knights can take out pikemen, and usually they are one of the first to get Feudalism.
Japan is not weak, but don't belong in the overpowered conversation like Zulu and Chinese, and don't really tech any better than alot of civs without skimping on defenses. If they can't reach the islands before others have settled them, then they won't keep up in the later phases of the game.
I have a soft spot for the Japs, since they gave me my first Diety victory way back when I first started playing this game. But since then, especially after several MP matches against and with them, my opinion of them has decreased.
Grayson I should get on my PS3 right now and pwn you using the Japanese :P!
Jk, btw man that game we played a loooong time ago on invasion usa and u were aztecs how did you get 300+ gold so fast with 1-2 cities. I thought you
were keeping up in tech too.
where ya been garmeth? lets get in a game late tonight or tomorrow if you can? i take it your brother never forced the trade back for the ps3?
Originally Posted by Garmeth06
I figured that this thread might bring u out of hybernation.
I do remember the game you are talking about, but I don't quite remember all the details. I know I was teching decently fast, and had about 4-5 cities with China. If I had 300 gold so early (i remember that game froze pretty quickly) it must've been due to finding the seven cities of gold. I usually don't have a stockpile of gold with the Chinese, so I doubt I saved up that much just from tech overflow.
I wouldn't mind seeing what a decent Jap player can do. I've run into a few, but they are few and far between (that goes for any player who loves a particular civ though i guess)...
I guess what I'm trying to say about them is that they are good at tech, but not even one of my top 3 tech civs, they are decent at gold, but not near the top either. They are not very offensive, except when u get the industrial era. On defense they don't have any bonuses till the get to the modern...
I used to think they were one of the most powerful civs, but they're just above average and can be great at tech, but after playing hundreds of games with them and agaisnt them, they just seem so ordinary unless they get left alone for a while. they are by no means bad, defenitatly not French, Mongol, or Indian bad, but they just don't seem great.
i guess i've repeated this opinion enough, u guys get the picture.
Yo, well Dan I just took a long break from civ. My bro takes the ps3 in a couple of days so I'm out of luck for a few months xD. He said he wasn't going to keep it for that long of time because you know not much time to play games a lot in college. Plus he just beat fallout 3 with 60 hours of play (lol) over christmas break. I Thought the ending was kind of lame. Half day of school tomorrow (friday) so yes I will be up for a game. Gunna have to warm up :P. I have been playing company of heroes for the most part and I'm gunna get Dawn of War 2. Grayson you should join us :P.
Why nobody except maybe Morte never add american on that list they are really great. Half cost unit rush is crazy for expansion and defense and attack...
Originally Posted by Grayson
I used to play japanesse at the beginning. They are good when the other player aren't too agressive. I was waiting for feudalism and religion then boom... unstoppable. But as you said usually we tend to focus too much on science and you're city aren't really productive so getting out a single knight army can be tough (especially that you'll want a barrack). But they are fun to play cause they can have really good city at spot where other civ won't.
Valid points made. They can be culturally powerful, though. If that's your aim, get some harbors in addition to their natural ability and then it's 2 food per SEA square. Easily 10 could be accessed by a coastal/island city. That'd be 20 food without any sea life. Plus, they start with ceremonial burial- temples early + leg up on religion (assuming there're no Arabs).
i start on small island (3-4 cities room ) as germany . japan NE from me never met him until late in game . on main land West egypt (ai) azteck india .
so i rush warrior army and galley got only 2 barb villages for whole game didnt get 100g settler ( i spend all gold on rushing ).i had 2 cities only, behind japan 15 techs i got galley he got cruiser thats how bad is it .
sudenly azteck drop then india drop too only me and japan left azteck lost 3 cities both of them quit cause japan had tanks, before i had knights .
i lost too much time rushing units and didnt get 100 g settler so i knew there is only 1 option for me build barracks and get as many as possible warriors before iron work . i had about 15 knight armies and with right techs i got navigation monarchy feud religion when i atatcked japan he had riflemans
but no problem with fundamentalism i lost few knight armies and took 3 of his main cities he got only 3 crapy cities from azteck and he QUITTT. WOHOO
what a great victory for me this is like second time to be on island and doing this strategy . nobody would expect this civ so behind (in stone age ) to take down modern age civ but i blitz him so fast he didnt have chance even tanks didnt help
and when they debriefed you after the battle is this what you said?
Mongol General: "What is best in life?" Conan: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." — Conan (Conan the Barbarian)
ahhh worst part is when you land your troops they all quit fast they should wait till end .
i notice 1 thing those who tech for whole game are very weak on defense
bad production they depend on gold and advanced units are very expensive if you dont have good economy you dead .
the best midle game rush is navigation (strong navy ) few catapult few pike armies and some knights + fundamentalism .
in this german strategy (wich i invented you get barracks then get as many warrior elite units before iron working and dont make army with them until you get iron working. once you get iron working start building legions (same price as warriors )and then make armies 1 elite 2 veterans .
and for whole game must keep reasrching or you will be way behind as i was .
this strategy work only if you are safe on small continent /island.
I'm missing something in this strategy. How did you combine your warrior units with your legion units which I'm assuming is the "1 elite 2 veterans" comment. I'm also missing how you built 15 knight armies which is 15*3*25 = 1125 hammers which surely you didn't build with only 2 cities. Did you use Leonardo's workshop to change all your warrior & legion units to Knights & then build your Knight armies?
Originally Posted by IceCube
thanks & best regards,
He's referencing a German Strategy. So if he builds 15 elite warriors, once he gets iron working they automatically become elite legion units. Then he combines those with legion units he makes himself, allowing him to have 15 legion armies. Once he gets feudalism presto, he'll have 15 elite knight armies.
off topic guys but i've been wondering about the german bonuses. i've had times where i have pikemen armies in all cities but when the upgrades come some armies don't upgrade. what am i missing?
They gotta be elite in order to upgrade. That's the trick of it...Germans get veteran warriors, so with a barracks, they can build elite warriors, which will upgrade automatically. Most of the time, your german archers will be veteran at best, and thus will miss out on the auto upgrade.
Originally Posted by danthechan
thanks. makes building that early barracks a must since its a lot harder to upgrade units in mp. a.i. will throw constant waves of legions to build up defenses.