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Thread: 4 city tradition?

  1. #1
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    4 city tradition?

    I tried doing four cities, which is the maximum cities you get until the bonuses of tradition start to lack.

    Here are my problems:

    Happiness issues.
    Production Lack
    Gold issues

    What I usually do is go size 3 on my capital then get three settlers out quickly and settle them in fertile locations with luxuries. After I have 4 cities up and running, I get all libraries in all of my cities. But because of BNW mechanics and lack of productivity, it takes are fourty turns on quick speed to get them all up.

    If I do get it up, national colleges takes 25-30 turns. So I've wasted a very long time....

    Sometimes I do go a different way, One city, straight Writing, If I do go for Great Library (depending on start location with forests) I get Mining then Calander, Mining to chop trees for production then calander to get access to Philosophy which I will use with GL. Around 80% of the time I get it under turn 26 or less.

    If I don't go GL but still go writing, I get the Library up and go straight to Philosopthy which takes such as long time and the National college gives around 12 science or so if build it, which with all the turns that are being processed, I'm falling very hard behind. After I get National College I spam 3 settlers out, only to notice that I'm at -4 happiness when I get all of them out.

    The whole strategy is to get four cities but I always have problems with the strategy I use. Even if I build all luxaries in my cities, sell them off for other luxaries (rarely gold) I will at best get all my cities to 4-5 population, which is very bad. Colosseum takes way too long and for two population it is extremely lacking. BNW does -2% per one unhappiness if under or equal to -1. Which makes doing this more useless than ever.

    I keep thinking that if I keep doing one city I'll fall behind. If I do it a different way like where I choose to get one settler out, let it grow to 4-5 pop and then get another, I fall behind all the time.

    I play at emperor, I've only won as Venice, India and Indonesia on Emperor in BNW.

    Moderators: Please move to Strategy sub-forum. I made a mistake posting here. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    5
    hey at least your getting wins

  4. #4
    I have found 4 city tradition to be extremely strong. If you are having production problems I would suggest making sure that you put your cities some where with ample production. Try planting on a hill for that extra hammer and if you want to get to your libraries up you should make sure that you're working a hill in each city. Then they won't grow too much solving your happiness issue, although I never had any happiness issues because of monarchy. Once your library is up you can switch the city back to working food tiles to grow. I found most libraries take around 10 turns and national college takes about 7 in the cap. Don't let your cities work automated tiles. Always lock down your worked tiles.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    The major flaw in your strategy seems to be the expanding. Tradition gives the strongest bonus in your capital by far, so it's on your capital you should focus.
    Building 3 extra cities does you little good: it costs production, your science cost goes up per city, it costs you happiness.

    Take the following into account if you complete tradition:
    - each citizen in the capital produces only 1/2 unhappiness
    - the capital gets extra food
    - each citizen in the capital produces 1/2 gold

    This means you want as much population in your capital as possible.

    Your other cities each get a free aquaduct, extra growth and a free cultural building, but that's all. If you are lacking happiness and gold, grow your capital and you'll be fine.
    On top of that: if you grow your capital, your city connections will generate more gold.

    For science purposes: usually it's better to go Hanging Gardens first, then library and national college, and skipping the great library. 6 food is huge, that's 3 pop for free, and with the free aquaduct you'll grow tall in no time. The main source of science is still raw population. Bonusses from the national college are based on that.

    So this is my advise:
    - grow your capital first, expand only when at 8-10 excess happiness
    - try building the hanging gardens

    By the way: one more plus on expanding later is that by then you will have scouted more and will have better places to expand. You don't have to stay too close to the capital. Go for those really sweet spots and ignore all the rest.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Robrechtds View Post
    The major flaw in your strategy seems to be the expanding. Tradition gives the strongest bonus in your capital by far, so it's on your capital you should focus.
    Building 3 extra cities does you little good: it costs production, your science cost goes up per city, it costs you happiness.

    Take the following into account if you complete tradition:
    - each citizen in the capital produces only 1/2 unhappiness
    - the capital gets extra food
    - each citizen in the capital produces 1/2 gold

    This means you want as much population in your capital as possible.

    Your other cities each get a free aquaduct, extra growth and a free cultural building, but that's all. If you are lacking happiness and gold, grow your capital and you'll be fine.
    On top of that: if you grow your capital, your city connections will generate more gold.

    For science purposes: usually it's better to go Hanging Gardens first, then library and national college, and skipping the great library. 6 food is huge, that's 3 pop for free, and with the free aquaduct you'll grow tall in no time. The main source of science is still raw population. Bonusses from the national college are based on that.

    So this is my advise:
    - grow your capital first, expand only when at 8-10 excess happiness
    - try building the hanging gardens

    By the way: one more plus on expanding later is that by then you will have scouted more and will have better places to expand. You don't have to stay too close to the capital. Go for those really sweet spots and ignore all the rest.
    This is wrong, 4 cities is the optimal build for tradition. The cap does get the best bonuses but 3 other supporting cities will also contribute greatly to your empire. Also, a capital by itself will not grow as large as a capital with 3 supporting cities sending it caravans for food. What will generate more science? 1 size 20 cap or a size 20, 15, 13, and 10. An empire of 4 rather than 1 city will generate more gold, production and science. Tradition's main weakness is its slower workers compared to liberty and lack of early hammers. Get some workers up quick and 4 city tradition will be very strong.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigMak View Post
    This is wrong, 4 cities is the optimal build for tradition. The cap does get the best bonuses but 3 other supporting cities will also contribute greatly to your empire. Also, a capital by itself will not grow as large as a capital with 3 supporting cities sending it caravans for food. What will generate more science? 1 size 20 cap or a size 20, 15, 13, and 10. An empire of 4 rather than 1 city will generate more gold, production and science. Tradition's main weakness is its slower workers compared to liberty and lack of early hammers. Get some workers up quick and 4 city tradition will be very strong.
    - 4 cities are optimal, I agree, but it's a matter of timing, like everything in Civ5. For example: at some point you might want an army. Is it therefore good to start the game building 5 warriors in a row? Not at all. You want an army when you are about to get attacked, or planning to attack. Any sooner will cost you money and production. Any later will get you killed. The same goes for expanding: you want to expand when the time is right, when you have excess happiness, not just expand like crazy as soon as your capital is 2 pop and you can build settlers.
    - about science: getting the National college early will be better then expanding in many cases. It's science boost is huge, while expanding increases your science cost. +3 science and +50%, you can never do better for science by building a new city.
    - about the population comparison: I agree you want a pop 20, 15, 13 and 10 instead of just one city, but again that's a matter of timing. Cities aren't pop 15 immediately when you build them. You need happiness to grow them. If you go for tradition, that happiness can be produced by your capital.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Robrechtds View Post
    - 4 cities are optimal, I agree, but it's a matter of timing, like everything in Civ5. For example: at some point you might want an army. Is it therefore good to start the game building 5 warriors in a row? Not at all. You want an army when you are about to get attacked, or planning to attack. Any sooner will cost you money and production. Any later will get you killed. The same goes for expanding: you want to expand when the time is right, when you have excess happiness, not just expand like crazy as soon as your capital is 2 pop and you can build settlers.
    - about science: getting the National college early will be better then expanding in many cases. It's science boost is huge, while expanding increases your science cost. +3 science and +50%, you can never do better for science by building a new city.
    - about the population comparison: I agree you want a pop 20, 15, 13 and 10 instead of just one city, but again that's a matter of timing. Cities aren't pop 15 immediately when you build them. You need happiness to grow them. If you go for tradition, that happiness can be produced by your capital.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robrechtds View Post
    - 4 cities are optimal, I agree, but it's a matter of timing, like everything in Civ5. For example: at some point you might want an army. Is it therefore good to start the game building 5 warriors in a row? Not at all. You want an army when you are about to get attacked, or planning to attack. Any sooner will cost you money and production. Any later will get you killed. The same goes for expanding: you want to expand when the time is right, when you have excess happiness, not just expand like crazy as soon as your capital is 2 pop and you can build settlers.
    - about science: getting the National college early will be better then expanding in many cases. It's science boost is huge, while expanding increases your science cost. +3 science and +50%, you can never do better for science by building a new city.
    - about the population comparison: I agree you want a pop 20, 15, 13 and 10 instead of just one city, but again that's a matter of timing. Cities aren't pop 15 immediately when you build them. You need happiness to grow them. If you go for tradition, that happiness can be produced by your capital.
    I have found that it is usually best to make your first 3 settlers as soon as possible so that your cities are growing as soon as possible. Going 2 - 3 pop settlers is very strong with tradition and sets you up for the rest of the game. Otherwise you run the risk of liberty players snagging all the good territory as well. Getting writing early and starting your last couple cities out on libraries will get your national college early enough. Those 4 cities growing early will also result in more population and science than just 1 city growing the entire time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    That depends on what difficulty you play. Difficulty determines how much happiness you get at the start. On higher difficulties (like emperor and higher) you don't have enough hapiness to pull that of.

    Something else to take into account: if you have more cities, you need more workers too to make them efficient. You can build libraries first, but in that case you will need to steal workers from city states or have your capital produce them quickly. I usually prefer a granary or lighthouse in the capital instead, so it grows even faster.

    Anyway, we should all play by the strategies we like, since it's a game and therefore should be played to be fun Good game!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Robrechtds View Post
    That depends on what difficulty you play. Difficulty determines how much happiness you get at the start. On higher difficulties (like emperor and higher) you don't have enough hapiness to pull that of.

    Something else to take into account: if you have more cities, you need more workers too to make them efficient. You can build libraries first, but in that case you will need to steal workers from city states or have your capital produce them quickly. I usually prefer a granary or lighthouse in the capital instead, so it grows even faster.

    Anyway, we should all play by the strategies we like, since it's a game and therefore should be played to be fun Good game!
    I usually play anywhere from emperor to Immortal and make it a priority to improve luxuries first and foremost for the happiness. Monarchy usually cleans up any happiness problems if there are any. But, like you said I have to get out a couple workers and units to protect them before my capital granary. Stealing workers from CS is always a plus.

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