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Thread: XCOM: Enemy Within Multiplayer Balance Update is Live on PC and Console

  1. #1
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    Exclamation XCOM: Enemy Within Multiplayer Balance Update is Live on PC and Console

    Hello Commander,
    XCOM: Enemy Within has received an update which adjusts the costs of units in multiplayer.

    The changes are as follows:


    Here are those changes again, in a text format in case you would like to be able to grab them.

    Needle Grenade now costs 300, original cost decreased by 200

    Heavy Floater now costs 3000, original cost decreased by 750

    Sectoid Commander now costs 2700, original cost decreased by 500

    Muton now costs 2200, original cost decreased by 650

    Elite Muton now costs 2900, original cost decreased by 900

    Lurkernow costs 1200, original cost increased by 800

    Psi Guardian now costs 2200, original cost decreased by 300

    Imperator now costs 1700, original cost decreased by 300

    Sectoid now costs 500, original cost decreased by 100

    Thin Man now costs 1100, original cost decreased by 300

    Drone now costs 400, original cost decreased by 300

    EXALT Sniper now costs 1400, original cost decreased by 600

    Chitin Plating now costs 500, original cost increased by 200

    Floater now costs 1000, original cost decreased by 300

    Torch now costs 2000, original cost increased by 200

    Bruiser now costs 1500, original cost increased by 500

    Phoenix now costs 3500, original cost increased by 300

    Demolisher now costs 2200, original cost increased by 500

    Ifrit now costs 3800, original cost increased by 200

    Typhoon now costs 2600, original cost increased by 500



    We will be watching, Commander.
    Last edited by Ga1Friday; 01-08-2014 at 04:09 PM.

  2. #2
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    Love the effort that went into balancing MP.

    One note on lurker. Although it's strong, it might've been nerfed a little too hard. Tile scanning and nades often easily counter lurkers. I can predict a slight drop in costs maybe 600-1000 range. =)

    Great job on everything and thank you for caring about MP.

  3. #3
    I love all the point decreases except for the Drone and the Sectoid Commander (already an amazing unit!). Lurker needed a nerf badly, but I agree that 1200 may have been a bit much. Still, it should cut down on unsatisfying endgame stalemate situations, so I'm basically in favor.

    I'm not sure about the logic behind making MECs more expensive while making Drones cheaper. MEC/Drone combo squads should be basically unaffected, but there's now even less incentive to build squads including MECs without drones. Strange, but I guess we'll see once we begin building squads under the new regime.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the comments everyone. Let me know how things play out after you have a chance to give these new prices a try.

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    Sectoid Commander squads will be a big deal now. Psi Guardian/Sectoid Commander squad will be especially strong.

  6. #6
    Already tried out a 4 Muton 1 Floater squad. Very satisfying : )

    Next up 3 SC + 3 sectoids or 3 SC + 2 drones + floater.

    Please drop the Chrys and CD next. They are out of the game at current prices. Also Psi armour could get a major drop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Water Gasoline View Post
    Already tried out a 4 Muton 1 Floater squad. Very satisfying : )

    Next up 3 SC + 3 sectoids or 3 SC + 2 drones + floater.

    Please drop the Chrys and CD next. They are out of the game at current prices. Also Psi armour could get a major drop.
    Have you tried out:

    2x SJ, LPR, Scope, Berzerker
    2x Muton
    1x Muton Elite

    100 Aim Muton Elite with 18 move is pretty awesome.

    Mutons are now stronger than soldier equivalents.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by amanasleep View Post
    Have you tried out:

    2x SJ, LPR, Scope, Berzerker
    2x Muton
    1x Muton Elite

    100 Aim Muton Elite with 18 move is pretty awesome.

    Mutons are now stronger than soldier equivalents.
    Aww, that is sweet like Chryssalid honey.

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    I think SCs were fine where they were before, now being able to field an entire squad with them is going to make games really annoying, especially since we still can't hear footsteps.

    Also, why weren't the Berserker or Chryssalid adjusted? Why not just remove them completely at this rate?

    EDIT: Whoops, thought that was class+soldier cost. Still, 2x SC and Psi Guard is the new meta.
    Last edited by V1cT; 01-08-2014 at 04:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V1cT View Post
    I think SCs were fine where they were before, now being able to field an entire squad with them is going to make games really annoying, especially since we still can't hear footsteps.

    Also, why weren't the Berserker or Chryssalid adjusted? Why not just remove them completely at this rate?

    EDIT: Whoops, thought that was class+soldier cost. Still, 2x SC and Psi Guard is the new meta.
    Yep. You can even afford 2x Sectoids and some gear for the Psi Guard.

  11. #11
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    MECs were expensive before....

    Ouch. They'll need some careful play now, which is a good thing. Sometimes MECs with damage control got a bit too tanky unless you played hit and run for several turns.


    Also, the chyssalids are unloved by all and are crying in the corner, but it was the muton buff we needed it to be.

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    I agree, with Sectoid Commander being cheaper and easily integrated into squads, MEC troopers are more often countered than before. There isn't any need to make them more expensive. Commando Mec trooper is really the only "hard counter" for 6x nader squads.

    On another note, most exalt units are still overpriced. They have weak aim and yet still cost more than soldiers pound for pound. The slight additional will doesn't prevent any psi attacks to a degree that justifies the extra cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent604 View Post
    I agree, with Sectoid Commander being cheaper and easily integrated into squads, MEC troopers are more often countered than before. There isn't any need to make them more expensive. Commando Mec trooper is really the only "hard counter" for 6x nader squads.

    On another note, most exalt units are still overpriced. They have weak aim and yet still cost more than soldiers pound for pound. The slight additional will doesn't prevent any psi attacks to a degree that justifies the extra cost.

    To be fair, the EXALT sniper isn't all that bad now.

    The EXALT medics are still both relatively good for what you get: a basic support unit.

    The other guys? Well, oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Claws View Post
    To be fair, the EXALT sniper isn't all that bad now.

    The EXALT medics are still both relatively good for what you get: a basic support unit.

    The other guys? Well, oh well.
    I think the Exalt snipers are all pretty bad even with the buff to the basic one. The Exalt Heavies and Elite Heavies are actually pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amanasleep View Post
    I think the Exalt snipers are all pretty bad even with the buff to the basic one. The Exalt Heavies and Elite Heavies are actually pretty good.
    Are they good for their costs though? Can you not make a soldier version that's superior for the same price?


    Santa Claws: The Exalt medics are actually great, yes. The sniper is still totally rubbish. What's the point of bring a Exalt sniper that misses more than a soldier rookie, and does less damage than spitting on the enemy when it does hit that 1 in 1000 chance./

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    I played quite a few games last night. Most of my favorite builds were no longer viable with the increase to chitin and lurker but a few were salvageable. However, thinking about how the new price structure makes aliens so much more appealing I believe there is now going to be a dramatic shift in strategy as PSI heavy and an abundance of grenades can easily enter the field.

    There is an enormous variety of SC + support builds one can build that should have a high level of success. This concerns me a little, so I ran with 3 HF and 2 sectoids. Let me just say this about that build.... Holy *^$@ does it own. Having 3 HF's plus enough points left over for some minor support is extremely powerful to the point you feel guilty of doing something wrong. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is a couple of DE plasma snipers or a plasma agent. Staying out of LOS until you are in grenade range takes care of that problem. Staggering the HFs out a little makes using a SC a death sentence for your opponent. So I am a little on the fence about the price drop to HFs, 3 of them are just brutal.

    The second build i ran was 2 SC and a PSI Guardian, LPR, Skelly, mind shield, bastion. This build was not as deadly as the HFs but still had little problem taking anyone out. In one match I easily rolled over twin agents.

    At this point i am at a loss as to how to counter so much PSI and nades, because you have to be able to counter both at the same time now. Maybe a plethora of Tac officers or exalt heavies? I guess it will come down to more of a game of discovery hoping your opponent wastes abilities on your sacrificial unit you put on point. My advice, lots of units and spread them out.

  17. #17
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    Great

    Just fix the Ironman breaking save corruptions and I'll play your game again. I tried playing with autosave on and quitting to the dashboard like people suggested. My save file still became corrupted after it froze on a supply ship yesterday.


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by amanasleep View Post
    Have you tried out:

    2x SJ, LPR, Scope, Berzerker
    2x Muton
    1x Muton Elite

    100 Aim Muton Elite with 18 move is pretty awesome.

    Mutons are now stronger than soldier equivalents.
    I had the same idea! I ran basically the same thing last night, but with a Berserker Hunter instead of two smokejumpers. Having both buffs was pretty rad, but elevation was a problem on a few maps. Double grenading Sectoid Commanders is just as much fun as it ever was, though, and having all those plasma rifles helps a lot against MECs.

    Speaking of, the other squad I ran was

    1x MEC Commando, railgun, Typhoon Armor
    2x Drone
    1x Medic, LPR, Medkit, Watcher
    1x Thin Man

    Before the changes, I played this same squad without the Thin Man, and with Lurker on the Medic. This is 100% an improvement. Opponent running around your MEC to get at your drones? Drop some poison on 'em to reduce their aim. Trying to run away from your punchy MEC? Drop some poison on 'em to reduce their movement. Poison is also excellent for finishing off wounded units (after a MEC grenade, say). Just having an extra gun makes a big difference in the squad's offensive ability as well.

    I agree with Mauduke about Heavy Floaters and Sectoid Commanders being the highest impact point reductions, but don't forget about the lowly Thin Man! At 1400, he was overshadowed by Watcher Smokejumpers, but he is a steal at 1100.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent604 View Post
    Are they good for their costs though? Can you not make a soldier version that's superior for the same price?


    Santa Claws: The Exalt medics are actually great, yes. The sniper is still totally rubbish. What's the point of bring a Exalt sniper that misses more than a soldier rookie, and does less damage than spitting on the enemy when it does hit that 1 in 1000 chance./
    The Exalt Heavy for 2900 is more expensive than a Rocketman, but for 300 points gets Holotargeting, Suppression, and a Frag Grenade (trading aim for will). The Elite Heavy costs 3600. A Machinegunner with a Heavy Laser and Alien Grenade would cost 3950. The Elite Heavy trades Shooting ability for defense and cheap explosives.

    In particular, there is no good XCOM soldier build that gets you Holotargeting on the cheap (only the Demolitionist has it, starting at 4950).

    Exalt Heavies excel in squads that have a lot of other soldier who can benefit from the cover destruction of the rocket or the aim bonus of Holotargeting.

    In many cases if you want Rockets you would be better off going with a Rocketman or Machinegunner, but I am hard pressed to say that Exalt Heavies aren't worth the points.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsTriflin View Post
    I had the same idea! I ran basically the same thing last night, but with a Berserker Hunter instead of two smokejumpers. Having both buffs was pretty rad, but elevation was a problem on a few maps. Double grenading Sectoid Commanders is just as much fun as it ever was, though, and having all those plasma rifles helps a lot against MECs.
    The thing that makes this build so dynamic is the incredible mobility. All those Mutons can rush people down fast on many maps, and have a lot of direct damage and fire support. In a firefight, Mutons can trade punches with just about anything.

    Speaking of, the other squad I ran was

    1x MEC Commando, railgun, Typhoon Armor
    2x Drone
    1x Medic, LPR, Medkit, Watcher
    1x Thin Man

    Before the changes, I played this same squad without the Thin Man, and with Lurker on the Medic. This is 100% an improvement. Opponent running around your MEC to get at your drones? Drop some poison on 'em to reduce their aim. Trying to run away from your punchy MEC? Drop some poison on 'em to reduce their movement. Poison is also excellent for finishing off wounded units (after a MEC grenade, say). Just having an extra gun makes a big difference in the squad's offensive ability as well.

    I agree with Mauduke about Heavy Floaters and Sectoid Commanders being the highest impact point reductions, but don't forget about the lowly Thin Man! At 1400, he was overshadowed by Watcher Smokejumpers, but he is a steal at 1100.
    Agreed, Thin Man is now playable again, and probably a much better metagame choice since he couldn't really do much in an environment dominated by Lurkers and MECs. But he is great against soldiers, Sectoid Commanders, and Mutons.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauduke View Post
    I played quite a few games last night. Most of my favorite builds were no longer viable with the increase to chitin and lurker but a few were salvageable. However, thinking about how the new price structure makes aliens so much more appealing I believe there is now going to be a dramatic shift in strategy as PSI heavy and an abundance of grenades can easily enter the field.

    There is an enormous variety of SC + support builds one can build that should have a high level of success. This concerns me a little, so I ran with 3 HF and 2 sectoids. Let me just say this about that build.... Holy *^$@ does it own. Having 3 HF's plus enough points left over for some minor support is extremely powerful to the point you feel guilty of doing something wrong. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is a couple of DE plasma snipers or a plasma agent. Staying out of LOS until you are in grenade range takes care of that problem. Staggering the HFs out a little makes using a SC a death sentence for your opponent. So I am a little on the fence about the price drop to HFs, 3 of them are just brutal.

    The second build i ran was 2 SC and a PSI Guardian, LPR, Skelly, mind shield, bastion. This build was not as deadly as the HFs but still had little problem taking anyone out. In one match I easily rolled over twin agents.

    At this point i am at a loss as to how to counter so much PSI and nades, because you have to be able to counter both at the same time now. Maybe a plethora of Tac officers or exalt heavies? I guess it will come down to more of a game of discovery hoping your opponent wastes abilities on your sacrificial unit you put on point. My advice, lots of units and spread them out.
    I think there are many ways to deal with SC builds. I think there is a good build to make around Medics with Bastion which should hard counter SC builds easily. Not certain it can deal with Mutons or Snipers though. Many builds will have access to double nades or Rockets to reliably kill post MC, too. I don't think that SC necessarily dominates even with the price reduction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent604 View Post
    Are they good for their costs though? Can you not make a soldier version that's superior for the same price?


    Santa Claws: The Exalt medics are actually great, yes. The sniper is still totally rubbish. What's the point of bring a Exalt sniper that misses more than a soldier rookie, and does less damage than spitting on the enemy when it does hit that 1 in 1000 chance./

    It's not too bad if you get the high ground.

    Of course, having no method of getting there is kind of jarring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V1cT View Post
    Also, why weren't the Berserker or Chryssalid adjusted? Why not just remove them completely at this rate?
    Yeah, Chryssalids were barely used in EU, even less in base EW and now with these new changes the tumbleweed is rolling in the
    Chryssalid hive (I mean come on, a Chryssalid isn't worth a Heavy Floater, they're just too situational)...

    Definitely appreciate the changes to the other alien costs though, as a xenophile and someone who likes using Muton squads the point reductions make me very happy =)

  24. #24
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    I refuse to play MP with so much ephasize on sectoid commanders and mind control stuff. If they added SHIV to mp it would be interesting as a counter.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Autoclave View Post
    I refuse to play MP with so much ephasize on sectoid commanders and mind control stuff. If they added SHIV to mp it would be interesting as a counter.
    Cyber disc, even at the unfortunate current price, does a nice trick on most SC squads. Double rocket or rocket grenade combo plays another trick of the similar nature. Hell, as a radical measure, you could even run a jumper spam with mind shields.

  26. #26
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    These multiplayer changes cry for another multiplayer tournament! Either get together the 2k squad for another nice stream, or the community should host another caster tournament, like FWG did in the past. Please make it happen!!


    Also why didn't the Cyberdiscs drop in price, my assumption was that the deathblossom, which is heavily underused and lacks opportunities to use it anyways, is responsible for this.

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    I was upset when EW first came out and my SC, cyberdisk and 3 sectoids was no longer workable.

    but thanks to this, I get to go with the same squad mostly. SC, cyberdisk, 2 sectoids PLUS 2 drones!

    should be fun when I get a chance to play it.

  28. #28
    SC in no way needed the buff... crysallid did however, so I am surprised an already very powerful unit (made even more so by improving Mutons, which SC was declared the official counter for, even in the beta interviews) got the price reduction instead of a unit used primarily for the satisfaction of it's kill animation. Even though devs said that they'd only modify point total costs, instead of actual stats, I'd say that a better solution would be to increase Chrysallid damage to say 9, something to actually oneshot weak humans in nanofiber/chitin/etc. Or you know, make them able to implant eggs into sectoids (if they can do it in dead whales and sharkes, the relatively humanoid sectoid really should be no problem!)

    At least you made some other aliens good, not to mention brought back skeleton armor from the dead (who needs grapple when you can jump up tall buildings?) with lurker nerfs.

  29. #29
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    Wow, the game has gotten exponentially worse thanks to the SC price decrease.

    I have no idea what the hell your testers are doing with their time, but SC point value has destroyed the game now.
    You can run SCs, drones, and typhoon mecs in the same god damn squad. That is unbelievable. SCs are now fodder placement units, that is mindblowing. Instead of being forced to run hard counters to 2 types of units now we have to run hard counters for 3.

    Please hotfix this, this is unbelievable. The only thing that needed adjustment was the price of melee MECs (Still stupidly cheap), lurker, and alien foot soldiers.

    SCs were too cheap in EU, now they are replacing smokejumpers. Drones were fine at 700.

    Can someone also explain to me why flamethrower MECs cost so much more than melee MECs but are inferior in every way? Why isn't the Typhoon 3800?
    Last edited by V1cT; 01-12-2014 at 08:42 AM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1cT View Post
    Can someone also explain to me why flamethrower MECs cost so much more than melee MECs but are inferior in every way? Why isn't the Typhoon 3800?
    I'm guessing the theory is in Flamer being AoE and 6dmg plus panic, but considering you only get 2 uses out of it and lose the extra movement range it's not so great a benefit that a tier-2 Flamer MEC should cost the same as a tier-3 Punchy MEC, which gets more hp, more Will and an extra weapon.
    I don't think I've ever faced someone using a Flamer MEC in a 10k game...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1cT View Post
    Wow, the game has gotten exponentially worse thanks to the SC price decrease.
    Not certain if I agree. The SC price decrease was unnecessary, but I prefer SC spam to Lurker spam.

    I have no idea what the hell your testers are doing with their time, but SC point value has destroyed the game now.
    You can run SCs, drones, and typhoon mecs in the same god damn squad. That is unbelievable. SCs are now fodder placement units, that is mindblowing. Instead of being forced to run hard counters to 2 types of units now we have to run hard counters for 3.
    You could run that before. Not certain what has changed. The main build that got boosted was SC + Psi Guard. Secondarily multiple SC builds got a boost too.

    Please hotfix this, this is unbelievable. The only thing that needed adjustment was the price of melee MECs (Still stupidly cheap), lurker, and alien foot soldiers.

    SCs were too cheap in EU, now they are replacing smokejumpers. Drones were fine at 700.
    One thing that prevents SC from taking over the game is that Muton spam is a viable build now, which means that double nade is a constant threat.

    Can someone also explain to me why flamethrower MECs cost so much more than melee MECs but are inferior in every way? Why isn't the Typhoon 3800?
    I agree with this. Flamethrower is not as good as melee and needs a point reduction.

  32. #32
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    You know, the game's become an interesting game of hunting SCs.

    Lurkers still make great scouts for SC kill teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amanasleep View Post
    One thing that prevents SC from taking over the game is that Muton spam is a viable build now, which means that double nade is a constant threat.
    I wasn't complaining about SC teams, I was complaining about SC teams that mix in high HP high threat enemies.

    It's hard to deal with Two SCs when you have a 24 hp MEC running around punching your Mutons, much like how it's hard to deal with a MEC has it's being healed by 3 Drones while it is running around punching all your Mutons and the SC is in the back.

    You have to disable the MEC, which requires another MEC... You also need to disable the SC, which requires another SC. The cheapest counter is itself and that's a big problem.

    Also a kitted out max level MEC is still cheaper than a damn Cyberdisc.

    Quote Originally Posted by amanasleep View Post
    I agree with this. Flamethrower is not as good as melee and needs a point reduction.
    No, no more reductions. The problem with the Flamethrower is not that it's too expensive, its that the KS MEC is too cheap. Most games are already looking like 20k matches, we don't need to make it worse.

    Having no footsteps is also compounding the issue of dealing with these types of teams.

  34. #34
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    ^
    At least we can hear MECs.

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    Hmm, I'm quite curious whether Ethereals would still be considered OP in 10k games with these balance changes, plus all the content in EW...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KjcKiesh View Post
    Hmm, I'm quite curious whether Ethereals would still be considered OP in 10k games with these balance changes, plus all the content in EW...
    The current problem is that low will units are useless because every squad has a Commander, and the only units that are half decent at killing MECs are low will units.

    Ethereals would not help the issue. MECs have solid will so Ethereal attacks wouldn't be all that devastating against them, but they would make regular soldiers even more worthless.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1cT View Post
    The current problem is that low will units are useless because every squad has a Commander, and the only units that are half decent at killing MECs are low will units.

    Ethereals would not help the issue. MECs have solid will so Ethereal attacks wouldn't be all that devastating against them, but they would make regular soldiers even more worthless.
    No soldier has good enough will to resist a commander except MECs (and even they will fall to a Psi Inspired or Mind Merged commander), and Etherials can MC MECs at 80-90% chance.

    Commanders are not beaten by mind shields or hard counters. They are beaten by having enough firepower to retaliate after they MC a unit, or by running away properly. The environment has a lot more explosives than EU, which means that far more squads can kill the commander the first turn after MC now. MEC + SC build gained nothing from the point change to SC because they lost the same points to the MEC price increase. It's the Drone price change that made it more powerful. Above all the death of Lurkers made this build more powerful since Lurker Snipers were the greatest way to beat MECs and SCs, and the Chitin increase made punch better (not that anybody was playing chitin).

    IMO that build is not so unbeatable. 6 tough units should be able to win by spreading out, nading the SC when it shows, and ignoring the MEC to kill the drones. The MEC can only kill 1 unit a turn and in practice often not even that since they need to be at point blank range to kill and they have terrible accuracy.

  38. #38
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    MECs have grenades too, and will grenade your squad while you move up to deal with the Commanders, that's the rough part. They can take a ton more punishment than you can, and when the Commanders are dead you still need to deal with a 24 hp Damage Control/Shock plating MEC that can run farther than your units can.

    I agree though, it's the Drones that make the team tough to deal with without resorting to a six grenade fodder squad.

  39. #39
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    ^ The key then is hunting drones.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Claws View Post
    ^ The key then is hunting drones.
    All it requires is running to the opposite end of the map and landing a few 50s without getting killed, easier said than done.

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