i thought about the live on of Rapture after BioShock is released and ask you:
wouldn't it be nice to reincarnate Rapture in another gameplay setting?
for example: an innovative adventure in first person using Rapture to show how the utopia looked like before it turned into a dystopia...
A prequel? Interesting idea. But I doubt they'll continue with this title. Unless the ending will be left open. Then, everything is possible.
Last edited by Necros; 02-24-2007 at 02:28 PM.
Nice idea: I imagine how you start as a normal citizen and realize how the chaos breaks out.
But in the end it depends on the success of the game. And I agree with Necros that the IP of this games is already used then and that Irrational prefers to concentrate on something completely new. Well, but you can never know...
I don't really see point in creating a prequel since the action seems to be all after the society's fall (IE anyone in the society at the time of the end would either go insane or be dead).
A sequel wouldn't be a bad idea, perhaps Andrew Ryan created other endevors and you've been sent to destroy them.
Prequel as mod?
This sounds like something that might be possible once the PC version of the game comes out.
If we're allowed to make our own maps and props into the engine there shouldn't be much of an obstacle to presenting Ryan Andrew's dream before the magic plot slugs were found and all hell broke loose.
While you couldn't have a full teeming city the early days before the mass exodus undersea might be a plausible point in the timeline. NPC scripting for construction workers and the first chosen few essential to Ryan Andrew's finishing touches to Rapture would likely be possible.
It might not even have to be 'finished' or even resemble the final product seen in the original release. The Tech in BioShock is merely an explanation for the cool shooter stuff you can do and isn't so 'hard' as to keep this early proto-Rapture from being fun to explore.
In terms of gameplay it proubably wouldn't be that much fun for someone new to playing the game, however it would be rewarding to players who already experienced the entire original retail release. It would be a real labor of love fan project if there were little clues to boards and twists that blossumed in the later pro-release.
So mostly exploration and visual exposition. You could find blueprints for what will be actual boards later on. Talk to the plot's "Big Names" and perhaps do a few errand tasks that would draw you deeper into the facility.
For a real twist there could be a level undersea where you're in one of the Big-Daddy diving suits, before they get kit-bashed into goliath babysitters, and be the original discoverer of the Adam sea-slug colony.
Great idea jackinthebox please don't hesistate to share more of them.
The kind of game BioShock is, it'd only really make sense to play the scene of Rapture after its fall.
However, other game styles can be applied to the other possible scenarios; like for the war scenario of Rapture, a multiplayer FPS game. Or how about an RTS? A lot of possibilities.
I think that the story of something should be its own self contained little unit. They should fit with other stories but be able to stand alone. I think this was the problem with the ending to halo 2. I once read a novel and didnt relize until halfway through it that it was the sequel to another novel that I had not read but the plot all still made sense. I think all things should be like that.
What about an MMORPG *ggg*? Ahh, many big IPs get slayed and become a MMORPG in these days, but I have to admit that a MMORPG set in a huge underwater city could be nice. And imagine its set right in the beginning of Rapture's fall. Just an idea..^^
Several of the devs have talked about BioShock 2 and, I think, Ken said somewhere that they (might? probably? definitely? I don't really remember his words) do a BioShock sequel if BioShock 1 does well. If anyone knows where he said this that would be great. I think if there is BioShock 2 though, it won't be started until after Irrational's secret (X-COM?) game is released.
Originally Posted by jackinthebox
here's my idea:
A city-building simulation game, where you are Andrew Ryan and have to build up Rapture such as a SimCity, but with a complex econimic simulation and in 3D.
If Bioshock is a good game, and I don't think anyone here doubts that, a sequel will obviously be welcome. I just assumed the game would end with your escape from Rapture? If not, there would be more adventures down there. I don't know about a prequel - it seems like this kind of social deterioration wouldn't happen in the amount of time that would make it intense (although it would make an awesome novel). One aspect of stories like this that always rock in my book but don't seem to be done much is essentially the same story but from another character's point of view. You couldn't be a Little Sister or Big Daddy and have the story work too well... maybe one of the locals that didn't dither too much in the plasmids, has been surviving down there for some time, and suddenly there's a visitor from the surface.
Originally Posted by pn18
For some reason the name "Andrew Ryan" always reminds me of Ayn Rand, A Philosopher who promoted rational self interest, reason and individual rights. I wonder if perhaps the fall of rapture had something to do with this philosophy taken to an extreme, without having societal checks and balances in place in the "new world" of rapture, things advanced to far and too fast in the name of "rational self interest" to be reversed. Just a thought of course I would have to play this game through completely to see if I'm even close to on the mark...
Just something that passed through my mind anyhow.
Maybe Rapture isn't the only city that was built. Maybe there's a whole underwater sub-way system linking various places together. Mines, factories, water processing plants, kelp farming, whatever. Maybe there's another city on the polar cap. Maybe there's one hidden in the dense rain forests. Who knows... could go on and on.
As far as a prequal is concerned, it could be a type of building game. Maybe up to and beyond the part where things get crazy. Maybe you're trapped there for years, or maybe you're part of the reason things went so wrong to start with. Maybe you're fighting for dominance in Rapture. Maybe you were the original survivor. Sounds like fun no matter which way it's done.
I'm pretty sure you'll find Rapture is a one off. As for Sequels or prequels, they're better off being the same genre. Spinoffs would seem like they were simply trying to milk the cash cow for all it's worth IMO.
A prequel on the rise and fall of Rapture would be awesome. A sequel, well, we don't know what state Rapture will be left in at the end of this game. There might not be anything left to come back to.
You're bang on, actually. Ken has stated in several intviews that Ayn Rand is is a big influence, especially her book Atlas Shrugged. Andrew Ryan is indeed named after her, and Bx is the story if such ideologies being taken too far.
Originally Posted by the_bUg
Last edited by v.dog; 02-25-2007 at 11:46 PM.
Well, Ayn Rand is a frightening monster, so it seems a fair leap to make.
I think a prequel would be a wonderful idea, but not as a shooter. Instead it could be an adventure game in the same vein of Dreamfall, Fahrenheit or the upcoming Alan Wake. Just a normal citizen there who uncovers a mystery that is found in Rapture. Wouldn't have to end with the whole place going to hell, but it could get very close to that.
Or even lead up to it the "end" of prosperity and having you try to survive the changes and escape -- survival adventure; creating a new genre. Not like RE or Silent Hill, too much combat in those games. Just the amoujnt of combat in the games I mentioned before (Dreamfall, Fahrenheit...)
Bx - shooting = suicide. Starting a new IP and building a fanbase is incredibiliy hard. Once you have them you want to keep them. To turn arround and say 'Our next game in this universe will be an adventure ala Dreamfall' is to slap them in the face, especially if you're touting your current game as the 'Shooter 2.0'
You then have to start building another fanbase from scratch.
It's much easier to keep existing fans on board than it is to get new ones.
To be honest, I think a prequel would be a very bad idea. A sequel completely depends upon the 'end' of the story in Bioshock, or what avenues are left open to expand the series.
The prequel, I think, would be bad because it seems like the whole point of the story is the player is not supposed to entirely know EXACTLY how the world went to ☺☺☺☺. When you throw a player into a destroyed world that gives you hints that something huge happened in the past, it has a much larger effect than flat out explaining everything to you or even just letting you see it or experience it yourself. Think of the Fallout universe for example. The player is basically given a small synopsis of the history and then thrown into the world: "There was more war. Someone nuked someone. Everyone nuked everyone. Vaults were created. You are a resident of one of those vaults. GO." The user CAN find much more details about the past if they choose to look, but it comes with exploration, time, and the ability to piece together loosely kept historical information in a post-nuclear age.
This type of atmosphere is so much more important to me than fully understanding, up front, what is going on. I hope Bioshock has this type of atmosphere. And, if it has a good implementation and story, I hope that an outlet is left for a sequel. But only time, and their storyline, will tell.
The type of atmosphere is so much more important to me than fully understanding, up front, what is going on.And, if it has a good implementation and story, I hope that an outlet is left for a sequel.
I think the prequel idea would depend on just how much you find out about how Rapture got to the state it's in during the course of BioShock.
Even if you know "Okay at some point this city's society collapses and everyone mutates" you could still have a game like that if you don't know exactly what events led up to that.
However since both SS1 and 2 queued you in on enough of what happened prior via the audio logs, you basically learned how things got from A to B to C.
Why does there have to be a difference between Adventure and FPS? There's not much of a difference aside from First or Third person.
I wouldn't mind a 3rd person game in Rapture's world as long as it's done with quality (as hopefully FO3 is since it's transition from 3rd to 1st). I would mind if you took away all weapons as I tend to be weak vs. stabby things.
I hasten to disagree. It's all about pacing and your primary method for dealing with the issues of the world. FPS (First Person Shooters) move quickly, have lot of enemies, and you simply deal with them by killing them (hence the 'Shooter' part of the acronym). Adventure games have a slower pace and the emphasis is on solving puzzles to move forward. physical combat is infrequent, if it's there at all.
Originally Posted by nmrahde
I was going to quote a whole bunch of people and respond to each in turn, but it just looked like it would take too long and feel very disjointed, so as a response to some of the above, here are some of my thoughts on adventure gaming:
I think the main difference is in the people you're trying to reach. Dedicated adventure gamers mostly won't play a game that involves jumping or shooting. So if you wanted to make a game purely for that kind of gamer, it's probably best to either put those things aside, or make sure it's never a required option.
If you did use the BioShock engine to make a pure adventure game, you could essentially make it for a totally different audience. You might not reach the existing fans (or at least not all of them) but there is an audience that will play it, and almost regardless of its quality (as long as there's no shooting, no jumping, timed sequences etc. (and providing you could get it into their hands))
Dedicated adventure gamers will virtually play anything as long as it barely resembles an adventure game and doesn't include timed sequences, shooting, jumping puzzles, or action sequences requiring great dexterity and/or hand to eye co-ordination. They have very low expectations with regards graphical polish and, well, basically 'quality' (they'll basically play anything no matter how clunky or broken or ugly, as long as it at least resembles an adventure game, which is greatly frustrating to me as I love adventure games, but since the typical adventurer is willing to accept what I'd consider to be substandard products, the genre is basically stagnating).
The adventure gamer is ultimately a different kind of animal.
Whats more, generally speaking, they're roughly divided into two types. The adventure gamer who likes 3rd person adventuring and those who like 1st person adventuring.
3rd person adventuring (e.g. Syberia, Grim Fandango, Still Life) generally involves item-based puzzles centred around collecting and combining objects so as to use them on or in the environment to affect some kind of positive result that allows the player to continue through the story (these stories generally don't have themes and the combinations and uses of items, more often than not, totally defy logic).
1st person adventuring (Myst, Riven, Exile), can include item-based puzzles but more often than not feature self-contained logic puzzles that either exist on a single screen, or are dependent on switches, buttons etc. located somewhere else within the environment. These puzzles are generally solved with pure logic, rather than through either interaction with the game's character (and as a result, the game's story) or general experience of adventure-gaming conventions, which (along with the characterisation and behavior of the player-character) tend to drive the 3rd person adventure game (Generally speaking, the 'player-character' in the 1st person adventure game remains silent and undefined.)
I think an adventure game based in Rapture would be really good. I think it would be good as a prequel also, since that would give it a lot of atmosphere. A sense of foreboding— a sense of doom even. It could dictate the direction of the story and suggest the basic plot points and puzzles and interactions that might be necessary. Also, if you had prior knowledge and/or experience of the plot of BioShock it might actually help guide you in the right direction in a way that could aid you in solving the puzzles (the thing is I'm not sure how happy Ken et. al. would be with a group of moders re-defining the BioShock universe )
Personally I'd like to see an adventure game either nested in the existing BioShock game, or it might be cool for someone to take advantage of the existing engine etc. just to make an adventure game. Kind of like the BioShock equivalent of Island of the Dead
Edit: Also— there is already a 'servival' themed adventure game, and as adventure games go, it's one of the best. It involves a lot of realistic and logical improvisation of tools etc., plust you have to keep yourself fed, and your pda device charged (and there are multiple solutions to the puzzles).
Last edited by Hatesink; 03-29-2007 at 06:29 PM.
I think FPS's can have a slow pace, such as Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth. In that game, for the first half, your just solving mysteries and such although there are fast paced moments but it's pretty slow sometimes.
Originally Posted by v.dog
However, I get what your saying and do agree that the genre's are different although FPS's can be slow as well without killing enemies.
I apologise for making sweeping generalisations, but games like that are more the exception than the rule.
I think Knights of the Old Republic is the perfect example of how a game, like the one suggested at the onset of this topic, can succeed.
It is true, KotOR is an RPG, but if you encourage your imagination a little, and bring into focus the city of Manaan, I can see a beautiful representation of Rapture (only atop the water).
Also, if you maneuver your perspective into the first person and make a few other necessary adjustments, you find yourself playing a top-notch FPS with a mighty arsenal of Adventure and RPG elements.
With the ability to murder all the obstacles standing in your way, or spend the effort to conversationally and diplomatically remove or befriend or mend them, you have for yourself a game like Deus Ex, which just about anyone can play.
I would love to play a prequel of BioShock in the form of an Adventure RPG. I can see such a game working very well. A sorrowful cross-section of fans will abandon the game, because some people simply cannot abide more than one, decisive, answer to any given friction they encounter in their games. But if the superior sales and acknowledgements that do swirl about Knights of the Old Republic allude to nothing more, they surely speak of the mass fan-base that such a stimulating idea could hold to its bosom.
That would be cool to have a pre or sequel.Anything could happen
it should be the prequel so you are there when rapture fell and you have to try to survive during its downfall
Rapture in Space