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Thread: Bioshock 2 on Steam. SecuROM + GFWL = No Purchase

  1. #41
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    Fallout 3 was a special case. It's the only GFWL title I know of that didn't require a profile for you to save the game. It had the capability but was mainly for content distribution (the reason I've never played any of the DLC despite thoroughly enjoying the main game). Possibly because it was an early GFWL release.

    I've never figured out the offline mode thing. In GTA IV I had to use an app to hack it out. Not my first choice of action I grant you.
    Last edited by Treebiter; 01-20-2010 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #42
    I've been looking forward to this game for months, and was going to pre-order it as soon as it was available. But now this Securom BS AGAIN, plus Games for Windows Live? After purchasing another game that forced you to use GFWL (GTA4), I will never again go through that ordeal. Are companies like 2K TRYING to kill PC gaming? If I wanted the "xbox experience" which GFWL is trying to provide, I WOULD GO BUY AN XBOX. As for Securom and the activation limits, these should not be on the Steam version in any shape or form. After the sh!tstorm that surrounded Bioshock's release, I figured you guys would get it right this time. Valve has been doing DRM right with Steam for years. Steam is unintrusive and seamless to the user, the way it should be. I just don't get it. I was ready to happily drop 45 bucks for this game, but I won't be doing that now. 2k, don't treat your PC customers like this...

  3. #43
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    Greetings!

    Lost sale here, at least at release date.
    Might get it at 9.99, in a year or two.

  4. #44
    Well that's 2 pre orders canceled unfortunately. You really think 2k would have learned something about this kinda crap from bioshock but they really felt the need to take it even further and bring gfwl into the mix, just a real shame.

    I've been gaming on my pc for around 12 or so years now and i've never pirated a game before or even thought of it but i've been looking forward to the single player experience alot and this may be the first game I pirate. I can guarantee ill buy the game if you remove the activation limit but theres an awfully big difference between $120 canadian preorder at retail or $10 on steam for when you finally decide to remove it. (2 copies btw)

    Do the smart thing 2k and remove the activation limit now and not later, these kinda things tend to anger the pc gaming community and cause the # of pirated copies to go through the roof.
    Last edited by ManWithCheese; 01-20-2010 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #45
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    I feel 2k should be brought to court along with Microsoft for aiding them in anti-competitive practices in making it where games are further bound to only function on the Windows operating system via the mandatory requirement of the GFWL software package.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimhound View Post
    I feel 2k should be brought to court along with Microsoft for aiding them in anti-competitive practices in making it where games are further bound to only function on the Windows operating system via the mandatory requirement of the GFWL software package.
    Damn straight, I can't wait for the day, if it ever comes, that the courts of the world decide that securom violates consumer rights and deems it illegal, PC gaming will be fun once more.

    I kept saying over the last few months how I was looking forward to Bioshock 2 much more than ME2, but on principle, ME2 is much more appealing now, and in years to come, I will re-install ME2 and won't have to say please or thankyou to the internet activation man.

  7. #47
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    What's Securom? I've noticed a lot of people on different forums upset that Bioshock2 has it. Most aren't getting it for that reason, or because it has GFWL.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
    Damn straight, I can't wait for the day, if it ever comes, that the courts of the world decide that securom violates consumer rights and deems it illegal, PC gaming will be fun once more.

    I kept saying over the last few months how I was looking forward to Bioshock 2 much more than ME2, but on principle, ME2 is much more appealing now, and in years to come, I will re-install ME2 and won't have to say please or thankyou to the internet activation man.
    Legal action is a tad extreme. It's just disappointing when customers' feelings on something seem to be so utterly disregarded.

    Looking forward to ME2 tons...got it on preorder as soon as I heard how friendly the DRM is (i.e. virtually nonexistent).

  9. #49
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    I was definitely going to buy this. I was actually considering just pre-ordering it on Steam right away. Then I noticed that.

    Now I'm almost certainly not going to buy it. Though, I might buy it when it sees a big price drop. It's a shame you don't want my money.

    Go figure.

  10. #50
    I just registered on these forums because of this debacle. Yesterday, my friends and I were going to buy a 4-pack on Steam. Today, none of us will be buying the game.

    Games for Windows Live is an abomination, and forcing me to participate in it just to play singleplayer is absolutely ridiculous. I use Steam because it's a fantastic platform, I don't want more DRM *and* another frontend forced on me just because the publisher was too lazy to add steam support.

    Maybe I'll rent it for my PS3 instead.

  11. #51
    I just pre-ordered it. I could care less. Mmm Bioshock 2 on PC. Nomnomnom.

    I'll get to play it on release day while you guys still quibble over the securom and what not. (Oh and I paid less :P)

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifluous View Post
    Legal action is a tad extreme. It's just disappointing when customers' feelings on something seem to be so utterly disregarded.

    Looking forward to ME2 tons...got it on preorder as soon as I heard how friendly the DRM is (i.e. virtually nonexistent).
    I didn't say legal action, I just mean them being prohibited from including DRM in games.

    GFWL is a service for retarded console A.D.D console players who need a pat on the back in the form of achievements to give them an incentive to play the games, god damn fickle fools.

  13. #53
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    Well that sucks. BioShock 2 is gonna be a great game! Your missing out on a fortune.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaPanda View Post
    I just pre-ordered it. I could care less. Mmm Bioshock 2 on PC. Nomnomnom.

    I'll get to play it on release day while you guys still quibble over the securom and what not. (Oh and I paid less :P)
    paid less than what??, you do realise the people here are pc gamers, so you won't have paid anything less, even if they did buy it, and the fact that people are not buying it means you paid more...where's your brain at?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
    paid less than what??, you do realise the people here are pc gamers, so you won't have paid anything less, even if they did buy it, and the fact that people are not buying it means you paid more...where's your brain at?
    5$ less with a pre-order. Not everyone pre-orders so they'll pay the good ole 50$ price. Oh and if someone is such a hater of securom and decides to get it on console.. they'll pay 15 dollars more than me + tax.

    Also at least 80% of the people here who are complaining will most likely buckle down and buy it anyway. People never stick with their ideals and beliefs.(Especially when it comes to games lol.)
    Last edited by NinjaPanda; 01-20-2010 at 12:58 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaPanda View Post
    I just pre-ordered it. I could care less. Mmm Bioshock 2 on PC. Nomnomnom.

    I'll get to play it on release day while the pirates get it a week beforehand, and don't have to deal with draconian bull****(Oh they'll get it for free :P)
    Fixed that for ya'

    Get back to us in 10 years, when you can't go back and replay the game, because the SecuROM servers are long down.

    Me? I think I'll just play through Deus Ex, or System Shock 2 again.

  17. #57
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    5 installs = "Our Game is not A Classic"

    So apparently, the developers for Bioshock 2 took a look at games like Deus Ex, Planescape, KOTOR, Grim Fandango, Diablo 2, and then looked at their game and said to themselves:

    “Did we just make a classic game that people will still be playing and re-playing 10 years from now?”

    “Nah, Are you kidding? No one’s gonna want to install this twice, much less 3 or 4 times, so 5 installs is more than anyone could ever possibly need.”

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychopomp View Post
    Fixed that for ya'

    Get back to us in 10 years, when you can't go back and replay the game, because the SecuROM servers are long down.

    Me? I think I'll just play through Deus Ex, or System Shock 2 again.
    Who uninstalls games?

    Silly people.

    Oh and I'm not a douche that pirates ****. Even if Securom is annoying. I'm just to the point where I don't care anymore.
    Last edited by NinjaPanda; 01-20-2010 at 01:04 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaPanda View Post
    Who uninstalls games?

    Silly people.
    Do you upgrade your hardware?

    Install a new OS?

    Hard drive gives out?

    These things will require a new authentication.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychopomp View Post
    Do you upgrade your hardware?

    Install a new OS?

    Hard drive gives out?

    These things will require a new authentication.
    1. Depends on how much upgrading is done, one little piece doesn't cause a fully new authentication.. I'm pretty good for another 2 years, and even then its just one more activation.(And the new stuff I buy will last me even longer still)

    2. I want Windows 7.. but XP is fine.

    3. Possible. I'll give ya that one. But I haven't had a hard drive die. Ever.

  21. #61
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    I can understand the need of DRM, however delusional it could be in the real world; I guess the publisher has, at the very least, a right to try and stop zero-day piracy by whatever means they can. I don't have much of an issue with the limited activations either, I'm very unlikely to upgrade my PC / reinstall my OS so many times during Bioshock 2's life span --but why the **** do I need GFWL?

    Seriously. I was gonna buy this over Steam (1), so why in God's Green Earth do I need Microsoft's useless piece of bloatware eating up resources? Really, just give one reason why I shouldn't find it to be a f'ing burden --let alone considering it anything remotely close to "useful". I beg you. Just one. I'm a big boy, I can manage my own savegames just fine (and besides GFWL does a pretty crappy job at that anyway), and I don't give a flying **** about those worthless achievements. So, what gives?

    Plus, I assume any eventual DLC will only be available through Microsoft's pretended money for people too young/imbecile to be trusted with credit cards of their own. Just fantastic.

    So, to sum it up: WHY?!?? =(


    (1) I probably will buy it anyway, I won't try to fool anyone -I'm too much of a BS fanboi-, but sweet Jesus WHY MOTHERF'ING GFWL, HOLY MOTHER OF F'ETY F'CK?!? =(
    Last edited by schadenfreude; 01-20-2010 at 01:30 PM.

  22. #62
    Securom - unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

    ~LoA

  23. #63
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    I've registered here with the express intent of informing you that my credit card, with £24.99 of English pounds ready and waiting to be deposited into your bank account... just went straight back in my pocket.

    And that's where it's staying until SecuROM, GFWL and the activation limits are removed.

  24. #64
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    I still have almost every PC game I have ever bought - dating back well over a decade and a half. All of them are still playable now & will still be playable in future as long as I keep the disks/discs safe. Without resorting to cracks, too (although some require either old hardware or software like Dosbox to run now).

    Will I be able to say the same thing in 10 years' time about games that require online activation? I very much doubt it.

  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Oppopji View Post
    I still have almost every PC game I have ever bought - dating back well over a decade and a half. All of them are still playable now & will still be playable in future as long as I keep the disks/discs safe. Without resorting to cracks, too (although some require either old hardware or software like Dosbox to run now).

    Will I be able to say the same thing in 10 years' time about games that require online activation? I very much doubt it.
    That's the thing, console players don't understand because new console's often don't support backwards compatibility as well as the consoles dying and them no longer being manufactured, so a console game purchase is only ever temporary. But when you buy a pc game, you expect it to last, and I can guarantee I will upgrade at least 5 times in the next 10 years, and anything else could go wrong in the mean time, limited activations and even unlimited, yet still lonine activations, will not last forever

    there is no way in hell they would release patches to remove DRM at launch if they went under either...

  26. #66
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    So, hello. Just registered to say the following:

    I don't begrudge you using Securom, as counterproductive and lame as it is. Of course, since I tend to buy games via Steam, it is entirely redundant. Oh, and GFWL required for saving games in singleplayer? That's just silly.

    Please reconsider, and I may do the same.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatrox View Post
    I believe this quote is pretty relevant to the case:

    "Sure, the boys in Ryan's lab can make it hack-proof. But that don't mean we ain't gonna hack it."
    Pablo Navarro

    C'mon 2K, don't repeat the mistakes you made in BioShock 1...
    That may be the most relevant use of a Bioshock quote that I've ever seen on this forum.

    Anyways, I feel sorry for you guys that were planning to purchase Bioshock 2 for the PC. I never play any games on my laptop, so I'm not completely sure what SecuROM and GFWL are. That's why I just stick to Xbox 360.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaPanda View Post
    5$ less with a pre-order. Not everyone pre-orders so they'll pay the good ole 50$ price. Oh and if someone is such a hater of securom and decides to get it on console.. they'll pay 15 dollars more than me + tax.

    Also at least 80% of the people here who are complaining will most likely buckle down and buy it anyway. People never stick with their ideals and beliefs.(Especially when it comes to games lol.)
    I like your attitude. I really do. I've been stressing about SecuROM since it's been announced - I have very badly been anticipating BioShock 2, and this is like being served a delicious pizza pie inexplicably covered with a thick plastic sheet with locks and keys, and will inject toxins into the pizza at one wrong move.

    I have been using Steam for awhile... since the Orange Box came out. I bought the original BioShock over Steam and fell in love with it. I have since, for everything from hard drive wipes, to computer swaps, to new hard drive wipes, to an OS upgrade (happily running Windows 7 now), and reinstalled EVERYTHING with no problems. Including BioShock.

    It will be a tragic irony if in five years I'm not allowed to play BioShock 2 anymore, but can still load up boys like the original, or Half Life 2. Clearly no thought has been given to longevity here.

    My hope (and I pre-ordered BS2 over steam, gave the spare BioShock to a friend) is that Steam users will get some slack as the DRM matures, or when/if 2K begins to cave. Who knows? They caved for the first so with the right button-pushing they may relax on the second.


    On another note: what a great scam those SecuROM boys cooked up. Doesn't protect the game worth a damn, installs a rootkit, and turns great software into canned tomatoes. They must have had a damn convincing pitch.

  29. #69
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    You know what, I'm just going to elaborate slightly, I'm really not that fussed about SecuROM, we all know its utterly pointless, intrusive and in my case when I purchased Mass Effect, actively prevented me playing the game 5 times out of 6. What I'm most irked about, is the utterly pointless machine activation limits (I've already reinstalled Bioshock over five times, thank god the activation limits were removed), and the necessity of logging into GFWL when I'm already friggin' logged into Steam.

    The utter pointlessness of this is laughable, and I'm definately not buying it.

  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Electro-Bolt View Post
    That may be the most relevant use of a Bioshock quote that I've ever seen on this forum.

    Anyways, I feel sorry for you guys that were planning to purchase Bioshock 2 for the PC. I never play any games on my laptop, so I'm not completely sure what SecuROM and GFWL are. That's why I just stick to Xbox 360.
    It means that whenever you want to install the game, you have to be connected to the internet, and it uses up 1 activation slot ( out of 5 ), and when you uninstall it ( while connected to the internet ) it gives you your slot back, so you have 5 again, BUT, if your harddrive dies, or if you reinstall windows, without first de-activating the game, there is no way to get you install slots back, so lets say those things happen, thats 2/5 gone.

    once you use up all 5, you can NEVER install the game again....so you're not really buying it to keep, it's really only a matter of time until something F's up. I recently re-installed windows on a new HDD and although I made an effort to uninstall and de-activate all my games, I forgot to uninstall Dead Space and Mirrors edge before formatting, so I lost 1 install slot for each of those games...

  31. #71
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    Hey everyone. Check out the thread from 2K Liz. Clears some stuff up
    Like you DON'T need to be online to save, ect.
    Link

  32. #72
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    Hey guys Liz just stickied a message hope this clears up any confusion:

    Also Liz has posted the PC specifications on the Cult Homepage: http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture...specifications

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    Hey guys,

    As many of you are aware, yesterday Steam's pre-purchase program began and the specs for BioShock 2 were posted along with that announcement.

    These specs were taken from the retail packaging of BioShock 2. And since bullet points on the back of the box don't always explain the full story, here is a little more detail about what that means.

    BioShock 2 is using a standard Games for Windows Live activation system, much like other games you have played in the past. That doesn't mean you always have to be online to play or save the game - you can create an offline profile for the Single Player portion of the game (you just won't earn achievements and you can't play Multiplayer, of course.)

    We are using SecuROM only as a disc check method for the retail copy of BioShock 2. That is it's only use.

    I am now checking the final plans for BioShock 2's specifications for Steam - and I'll get you a more complete answer by the end of the week. I have also been compiling a feature that will help answer a host of questions about BioShock 2 on the PC, including a podcast and screenshots of the PC version, and that should be out within a few days as well.

    I'm sorry for the confusion, and I hope to clear it up entirely for you soon.

    -Elizabeth
    Last edited by Judgeofwings; 01-20-2010 at 02:14 PM.

  33. #73
    Ok a few questions, you kindly chaps may have just made my day.

    Am I to understand that the DRM is simply a disk check, and that you can use an offline account in GFWL, without ever having to register online?

    , please tell me it is so

  34. #74
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    Unfortunately not

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    There is a one-time online activation for the game...

  35. #75
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    Hey guys,

    I've posted a statement about what's going on here: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55023

    These specs were taken off our retail packaging and I'm checking to see exactly what's happening with Steam.

    Please post in the thread I linked. Feel free to voice your concerns and complaints - but I want to be able to talk to you guys and I need to keep it in one thread to make sure I don't miss anyone.

    Thanks.

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