someone on reddit brought up a good point that i havent seen addressed here. since i dont own the game at all i cant say anything. but where there any immediate updates that were requried to play the game right after you install or play it for the first time on 360?
ive played a few games that i buy on release day that require/recommend patches immediatly. maybe the content was patched in after gold and they are releasing the unlock code for that patched in content?
like i said, i dont own the game or such, just covering bases before deciding whats going on here
The only patches for this game so far have been the two ones on PC that made no difference at all, 360/PS3 is supposedly getting a patch soon, though when I say "soon" that could be a month with the way 2K is making progress at the moment.
Originally Posted by nattylife
I edited the #1 post with all the links you've posted! Thanks guys!
I'm surprised that so many people are defending 2k. Suppose two cars were released without cup holders, one from ford and one from chevy. A few weeks after these cars hit the streets ford says, "gee, we've got a lot of feedback from customers saying they would like to have cupholders. If you'd like, you can buy some for $5." Now chevy says, "cupholders are chained to the bottom of the car. Give us $5 and well give you the key." Do you see the difference in these two scenarios?
My other objection is that the "on disc dlc" (lol) should have been present since day one. Most multiplayer games go to at least level 65. Well why not bioshock 2? Oh, they want more money for it. Extra weapon upgrade slots? 2 new characters? Please. These aren't things worth paying for BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Its not like there's new maps FFS! I wouldn't be as pissed if I felt the "dlc" actually added something original and unique (like the bioshock 1 dlc), but in this case, they are essentially selling you the game, then shaking you down for the ending.
Speaking of selling you the ending, would all of you defending 2k have the same opinion if it was the last cutscene from single player that cost $5 to "download"? I ask because there is little difference and all of the arguments I've heard could easily apply to that scenario as well. If you don't like it then don't buy it right? 2K isn't a charity, they need to make money right? 2K doesn't "owe" you anything right? These arguments are all technically valid but life and relationships between companies are a bit more colored and complex. You would think that a bunch of bioshock fans on a bioshock forum would realize the consequnces of unfettered capitalism at the expense of human decency. In closing, 2k is well within their right to play dirty tricks, but I'm also within my right to feel dirty when I realise I've been scammed and to not do business with them again.
PS - Elizabeth, all the good will you and 2K spent so much time and energy to cultivate with me over the years has been severely damaged by this stunt. Not irreparable, but pretty close. You can defend yourself and 2K but that doesn't change the fact that people feel burned as a result of your decisions. Weather it was intended or not is irrelevant. Perhaps you should consider this incident next time you plan dlc for a game.
Last edited by willis575; 03-12-2010 at 01:36 AM.
Having just read the entirity of this thread, the most shocking thing about it is not 2K Games' unquestionably duplicitous business practices - it's the number of you lot jumping to their defense.
And the technical explanantion offered by Elizabeth is clearly nonsense. Surely you can all see that? She made no attempt to actually answer the key question whatsoever.
If a developer wishes to carry producing content post-release that's great. To charge for that is absolutely reasonable.
But to lock content that's clearly already finished and on the disc and require players to pay for accessing that? Shameful.
Originally Posted by BanjoTed
Amen brother! Seems like there's never any shortage of people willing to defend people who screw them!
Jesus christ, does nobody on the Internet know how to spell the past tense of "pay?"
I must say that I'm very disappointed in 2k, and very upset about this. If I had known that this whole debacle was going to occur, I would NOT have purchased Bioshock 2. I would not even have considered it. I definitely enjoyed the game, but I consider myself to be strongly in favor of consumer rights; at least when Dragon Age came out they announced beforehand that it would have launch day "DLC." They did me the favor of letting me know that I didn't want to give them my money straight up, unlike what's happened here. This is an angle that nobody else has mentioned yet, and it's one that I find very frustrating. You say "vote with your wallet," and I'm saying that I can't. At least, not to the degree that I'd like to.
I'd also like to agree with the others about out how insulting it is to have this ODC put up for sale when there are myriad other issues that should be dealt with first. It doesn't matter that putting the ODC up for sale doesn't drain resources from the bug fixes; it's an issue of appearances, priorities, and respect for the consumer. I'm currently blocked off from getting my precious platinum because of an odd combination of the so-called "ApocalyPS3" and shoddy coding on the part of 2k.
Speaking of appearances, the fact that this completely nonsensical "explanation" has been trotted out makes things worse. I appreciate that you're a real person with real emotions and a real brain Elizabeth, and as such I give you the benefit of the doubt in being able to properly parse and interpret the following statement:
You lied to us. Just now, when you talked about dividing the player base. That justification for putting the content on the disc is, as many others have pointed out, not only false, but completely absurd to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. I say "that justification" instead of "your justification" because I find it very unlikely that it's your fault it got posted. However, in delivering such a hollow explanation, you have injured your own credibility. Given the inane circle jerk the mods were engaged in before, I'm starting to even wonder about their credibility.
I'm sure you're a nice person (you certainly seem to be nicer than lots of other people on this thread), but I do hope you don't get confused if people aim unkind sentiments your way and at your company. I'm not ready to toss 2k into the rubbish bin along with Bethesda and Bioware, but it's starting to look unlikely that I'll be buying any more products from you in the future, and picking up things before they've had a few months to mellow is definitely right out of the question now.
To be honest I don't really care about this anymore, all I care about is 2K fixing the game I paid £40 for so I can actually play it at a good standard, of course if 2K were to fix the game then I'd be much more happy to part with more money to buy DLC, but alas it would the single player DLC and not this lame attempt at getting extra cash.
I think we can all agree that this "DLC" is becoming more of a PR nightmare than what it's worth. I'd hate to see 2k lose customers and tarnish it's reputation over 2 new playable characters, some weapons add ons and new trials.
...and YES, I did go onto the network last night and paid my $5 for the new content. I was going to vote with my wallet and boycott the new DLC, but people couldn't seem to get over the fact $5 was not worth having an opinion over.
Yeah but Dragon Age also included vouchers in the first run prints of the game for the dlc for free, same with ME2 to reward those who support them from the beginning which is a very fair concept at least and I mean that was nickle and dime you to death E.A. doing that.
Last edited by BanjoTed; 03-12-2010 at 02:07 AM.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-12-2010 at 02:20 AM.
Just awful. Another game tried this before and it didn't go well. Poor form, 2k.
And on top of the fact that I can't even finish single player because of a game breaking bug that MIGHT get fixed sometime, I think I'm done with 2k.
Holy crap, I was quoted again.
Don't know what point you are trying to make but those content was not available in the game in the first place.
Originally Posted by blissskr
Despite what misgivings you have the EA, Rewarding customers is right way forward.
I was replying to someone else. And rewarding customers was my point I mean if EA can do it surely 2k could have.
Originally Posted by Lawliet89
2K should reward the customers by fixing the game, we've been told they are (hopefully) so after this has blown over I may be able to enjoy the game to it's full potential.
Originally Posted by blissskr
Yeah sorry, I forgot to mention that. My bad
Originally Posted by Vonderbach
Thanks very much for the links guys.
I still can't believe there were people who one day ago tried to tell us to "stop whining" or that they were "proud to pay 2K again" for the content that's on the disc they paid money for because "they deserve it"
2K = Sophia Lamb
Do it for the family guys. The family needs your money so we can continue our work. Nevermind that our work requires us to screw you over as a consumer, it's for the overall good of the family.
Yes, the family.
If there is any more content on the disc we are soooo not getting the code for it, just to avoid another uprising.
You are a consumer and have every right to ask questions. I have a very high opinion of 2k and I feel like it's my responsibility to provide feedback. It's like Liz said, if they don't know about it then they can't fix it right?
Originally Posted by doomed
Something positive will come from this, it just sucks that this could have all been avoided if the content was available from launch. The small amount of extra content is really not worth all of this bad publicity and controversy and name calling.
Also, take a look at some of the other links, it makes our discussion here look like an episode of Mr. Rogers. People are calling for 2k's head and using lots of colourful language. I think for the most part we have been very fair and conservative in our discussions here and still love and support 2k.
Last edited by Steinmans_Apprentice; 03-12-2010 at 02:35 AM.
My first time reading this thread. It's absolutly amazing that 2k could even DREAM of doing such a thing.
Good job. I totally agree with this.
Originally Posted by Vonderbach
Sorry about that.
Originally Posted by blissskr
Thankfully, or not, I have given up on this game. Going to finish it at my leisure when I feel like it.
Tops my regrettable purchases list.
I buy a car.
I notice one morning that a tire is flat.
I open the trunk to get out my spare, which came with the car.
I see that the spare tire is locked down with a padlock, with a note saying I can unlock the tire by calling a number and paying $5 with my credit card and get the combo for the lock.
I get pissed and post on the companies forum.
Someone replies "Well, did the car manual SAY that the spare tire was included with the car????!!?!??!?"
Yes, that's exactly how stupid the "It didn't say it came on the disk, on the package" argument sounds. I bought the disk, I bought everything that CAME on the disk. I am surprised that there is not some law about this shifty business practice.
I honestly don't know which is more disgusting: The semi-ripoff antics of 2k, or the Cheerleading Moderators that rush in to defend this poor business practice. Just bad, all around.
Good analogy, I tried to compare 2k's DLC patch to going to the store and buying a can of half-eaten soup, but it really didn't make any sense, so I have to give you credit for this one!
Originally Posted by HeavenlyDemonic
Ok, i am abandoning this thread because it obviously is pointless to reason
with people who are stuck on "Bash 2K' Mode.Just continue venting and repeating
each other until someone actually cares. let me know when someone actually
has something useful to say. in the meantime I'm off to play Bioshock 2
Last edited by Whitey_347; 03-12-2010 at 03:11 AM.
Lucky you, i cannot play Bioshock 2 beceause they spent 1-2 months working on a key that unlocks the DLC.
Originally Posted by Whitey_347
THANK YOU! Great analogy! It just does not make sense why they would bite the hand that feeds? Why would you try to squeeze more money out of the loyal fans that make your games so popular? It’s immoral. And then it blows me away how some people can defend that type of business?! They should work their butts off to fix all the game glitches, they should reimburse our $5 and unlock the rest of the content for everyone else that ALREADY PAID for the game! Please do the right thing 2K and redeem yourselves!
Originally Posted by HeavenlyDemonic
Last edited by levendis; 03-12-2010 at 03:56 AM.
Originally Posted by levendis
Not only that, they are scaring away first-time customers like me... not only I feel cheated, but I will be sure to tell everyone I know, to stay away from 2K as a whole, given how bad I've been cheated...
In fact, I wanted to get the DLC, I really did, until I saw it wasn't DLC, but an unlock key to stuff I already own... my purchase of a 4000 Microsoft Points card has been postponed until I find another reason to buy points (which will probably be Perfect Dark and next week's Deal on GOD for Windows.
Last edited by DarkPGR; 03-12-2010 at 04:04 AM.
Well, I purchased what I thought it was a game with balanced multiplayer but apparently I'll get my ass handed to me with player that bought new weapon upgrades. How about that for an answer?
Originally Posted by The Helvetica Scenario
Can I at least play the new levels if someone is hosting? Am I going to be kicked out? At least mask that with a game crash because I've grown costumed to them after a few matches.
Besides that bug, I'm still waiting for this to get fixed: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62753
Did 2K just ordered the multiplayer and extra content for DLC from Digital Extremes and it's over? No support? Nothing?
I should have waited to buy the game, maybe in second hand too. I pre-ordered the Special Edition, it took 3 weeks to arrive and never got a pre-order DLC code. Didn't I pay enough already?
Last edited by Kamikaze_Tutor; 03-12-2010 at 04:18 AM.
You know, if they didnt use GFWL we would never have found out about it only being 24kb. *Not including the whole xbox live fact.*
Made a poll awhile back about if 2K should apologize, and/or offer compensation, and predicted that the DLC would be an unlock and suck, vote if you feel ripped off, or if you still feel happy with all that 2K has done.
Hot Dog - they've done it again...
jeez...they've gone and screwed us again folks...
second rate expansion pack...sorry Bioslag 2...and now this!!!
stinks as bad as one of my farts after a guinness and curry meltdown!
Oh and by the way....patch???....widescreen fix???
no - just another rip off!
I've been calling this DLC a joke ever since it was confirmed.
This material was deliberately left out of the game to force consumers to pay an extra $5.00 to buy something that should have already been in the game.
And anyone who states that 2k isn't forcing us to spend more money is clearly mistaken. It's obvious that people without the DLC will be at a great disadvantage compared to players with DLC.
Why else was it decided that players could play with each other regardless of whether or not they had the DLC? To get people to buy it.
But like I've mentioned in other threads, 2k is a company, and like any other, its main goal is to get as much money as possible.
I respect that, but it's too obvious to see that we're all being taken advantage of. This move is making 2k look very greedy. At least don't make it that obvious next time and at least take the time to add new achievements.
Yeah, but on the PC side you would have still needed to get the DLC somehow. If you downloaded it from 2K's site, or if the game downloaded it automatically, you would still either see the size or see how fast it downloaded.
Originally Posted by soodle
Besides, it's not like we would have never known. It was guessed and verified that the finished first round of DLC content was in the game files from day one (well, maybe not day one, but pretty shortly after the game's release). We were just quiet about it.
One of the main points that's been made is that it just doesn't reflect well on 2K in that, even though they've explained it now, it could and did give the impression that they were trying to hide it. If they had just explained, from the game's release, or when they announced the DLC, that the "DLC" would actually be an unlock, and that it was stored on the disc for technical reasons, half of this uproar would be non-existent.