How will the widescreen image be displayed?

[Laser Eyes]

Can one of the dev team on the PC version please explain the image adjustment from the standard 4:3 screen resolution to a widescreen resolution? Will it be the most desirable horizantal plus or the less attractive vertical minus? It surely wouldn't be a stretched image if it has native support.

What I mean by this is will the picture displayed on a widescreen monitor at a resolution of say, 1680x1050, show all of the image that would appear on a 4:3 monitor plus additional field of view on the sides? Or will the widescreen picture simply have the top and bottom cut off and show less image than what would appear on a 4:3 monitor?

If you don't understand what I mean then have a look at this excellent article which discusses these concepts:

http://www.techwrighter.com/index.ph...d=59&Itemid=44

[IG.CKline]

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

- Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

[Laser Eyes]

That's good Chris, but it doesn't really answer my question.

Unless the image is stretched then there must be a different image between a 4:3 display and a 16:10 (typical ratio for PC) widescreen monitor.

Going to a widescreen resolution there will either be additional image displayed on the sides - ie horizontal plus (the best); or the width of the field of view will remain the same but image will be lost from the top and bottom - ie vertical minus (not as good). Can you say which it will be?

Let me ask in another way. My question relates primarily to the PC version of BioShock. Since it's a "Games for Windows" branded game it must support normal 4:3 resolution, and also 16:9 and 16:10 widescreen resolutions, according to Microsoft's GfW technical requirements.

Let's say I run the game on a 4:3 monitor at 1024x768. If I stand in a certain position in game and look in a certain direction I will see a certain image. Now let's say I run the game on a widescreen monitor at 1680x1050; I stand in exactly the same position and look in the same direction. What do I see? On the widescreen monitor do I see everything I saw on the 4:3 monitor plus more on the sides; or have the top and bottom parts of the normal 4:3 image been cut off to produce a widescreen image?

[IG.CKline]

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.

[Jeff]

-froths- That's awesome, so many times I've seen widescreen end up being more agitating than anything.... Now there's absolutely no excuse for me to not get a new t.v. specifically for bioshock.

[Laser Eyes]

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.

Perfect! Thanks for doing widescreen resolutions right in this game!

[borgdrone89]

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

- Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

so, what you're saying is that if i have a 4:3, there will be a letterboxed game displayed? kinda like playing dvds at their native aspect ratio on a 4:3 tv? cool

[lurchibald]

so, what you're saying is that if i have a 4:3, there will be a letterboxed game displayed? kinda like playing dvds at their native aspect ratio on a 4:3 tv? cool

What? i dont want mine letterboxed, but i doubt they will it will most be that we will see less at the sides of the screen

[borgdrone89]

including the hud...?

[lurchibald]

including the hud...?

well im sure that will be made to fit

[Ectoplasm]

Widescreen resolutions are natively supported by most later videocards (Nvidia 7+ and Radeon 1X+).

Imagine viewing a scene through a window that is either 4:3 or 16:9. With 16:9, you always see more in horizontal plane than you see in vertical compared to 4:3. Horizontal field of view, however, is far more important for us - and 16:9 (as well as 16:10), being a close approximation of the golden ratio, is far more comfortable and pleasing to behold.

How much you actually see through that window, however, is dependent on how far from it are you. By changing this distance, you can have same horizontal with a 4:3 as you have with 16:9, but at the expense of seeing everything smaller.

Far as HUD goes, there is usually one layout for widescreen, and one for regular. I also understand that PC HUD will differ from Xbox in level of detail.

[borgdrone89]

the pc hud will have more detail right?

yeah, im not totally convinced widescreen is the way to go for fpses unless its split screen.

edit: widescreen display would be fine on a widescreen monitor, but i hope that the kind of output can be changed based on whether you want to play in 4:3 or 16:9, like as an option similar to hl2

[Ectoplasm]

That is what I've read - PC interface being designed with PC in mind, and is not an Xbox port. I sure hope, however, that Xbox HUD is available on PC version. On my PC, I can opt for 19" montor and headphones, or I can take my wireless keyboard/mouse to a coffee table and play on my HDTV and 7.1 HT.

Widescreen is the better way - for any game. Wider field of vision is always a plus. In fact, I think that 4:3 is on the way out. The reason for the ratio lies in the limitations of CRT tubes. In order for the electron beam to illuminate all pixels on the screen evenly, the screen must be spherical. 4:3 was the widest they could get from square without having to make the screen too convex - while keeping the depth of tube manageable. Thus, all TV (and later PC) content has been produced with 4:3 in mind, and there is a huge installed base of both content-producing equipment and TV sets/PC monitors in that format. However, HDTV is all widescreen, and wide PC monitors are gaining popularity - and all this tech gets more and more affordable.

Personally, I think that in not-so-distant future, as (S)OLED tech matures, we'll start seeing ultrawide screens that are concave, wrapping around the user to provide a complete field of vision - something that today is only possible with multiple monitors.

[Bioshock_FTW!]

Yeah widescreen is definitely the way to go these days. I have a ViewSonic 22" 1680x1050 LCD right now that I am in love with. The only problem I've run into with the whole 16:10 thing is with older games that obviously can't display widescreen resolutions, I have a list of games with their proper hacks for it but there are still plenty of great games that i can't run due to it. (Fahrenheit, Thief: Deadly Shadows, System Shock 2 won't display properly with the hack). Luckily developers have been releasing patches for most games with new widescreen resolutions (can you believe Quake 4 didn't have any widescreen support out of the box?).
I am going to buy another LCD, probably a 1280x1024 just to run the older games.

Someone really needs to make a program that will display the black bars on the sides for games that will only run in 4:3.

[IG.CKline]

Folks, don't fret, there's no letterboxing in 4:3, nor in 16:9. The game will use the most bad-ass resolution available to your video card and monitor.

The HUD elements are adjusted appropriately align nicely in each aspect ratio.

-Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

[borgdrone89]

woo! cheers to ckline for clearing it up

[Mistake]

Just to be totally clear, in addition to no letterboxing (Which wouldn't be terrible, I've been watching movies on my TV with letter box for years), there will be no stretching nor squishing of the image reguardless of what aspect ratio is used?

I recently returned a widescreen monitor because it bothered the hell out of me, stretching games. Fat Master Chief looks bad to say the least.

[CitrusFreak12]

Just to be totally clear, in addition to no letterboxing (Which wouldn't be terrible, I've been watching movies on my TV with letter box for years), there will be no stretching nor squishing of the image reguardless of what aspect ratio is used?

I recently returned a widescreen monitor because it bothered the hell out of me, stretching games. Fat Master Chief looks bad to say the least.

Did you read the thread? He specifically stated that "there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved."

[borgdrone89]

so, what ken levine means is that for widescreen the field of view will be adjusted right? (like in hl2)

[K3NNy]

Umm is BioShock natively output in 720p or 1080i for those of us using hdtvs?

[IG.CKline]

Umm is BioShock natively output in 720p or 1080i for those of us using hdtvs?

Native output is 720p on the Xbox 360.

-Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

[Gitaroo]

I want to hook up my computer to my 32 inch lcd, and it only support 1360 x 768 for widescreen, I hope you guys will include all kind of 16:9 resolution and 16:10 resolution.

[IG.CKline]

I want to hook up my computer to my 32 inch lcd, and it only support 1360 x 768 for widescreen, I hope you guys will include all kind of 16:9 resolution and 16:10 resolution.

Yes, we do.

-Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

[phoenixcreation]

I know this has been said many times before, but it bears restating:

You guys are awesome. Not only in the game you are developing, but in the responses and feedback you give the community.

<salute>

[MasterYoda]

I must say, i was excited when i read this post, but then i found out it really ISN'T true widescreen support.

You're cropping the top and bottom off of the 4:3 image to make it 16:9 or 16:10

Boo! fix this now...i made this account simply to make this complaint...i'm not buying your game until i hear you have fixed this problem.

[greylantern]

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

- Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

[greylantern]

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.

What happened Chris? Removed for some reason (so NOT an oversight, just as I thought - it was intended).

[MasterYoda]

it would be nice to get a response from one of the team...

this post shows they intended to have true widescreen support...i wanna hear from them why they don't...

hopefully it's a demo problem and not the full game...though i highly doubt it.

[Slochy]

I'm also interested in knowing why everything you've said in here, Chris, doesn't apply to the finished product now that it's done. What went wrong here?

Tom

[misterscaryface]

I have a 19" LCD Widescreen monitor at home 16:10 aspect ratio. I'm hoping that all of this will truly be fixed as I have been looking forward to playing widescreen (not 4:3). I'm still going to buy the game though as I have been waiting for this game way too long and cannot wait another day to play, if and when they do decide to fix it, then I guess I'll just have to play through the game again...oh darn...:P

[Paddywak]

hopefully it's a demo problem and not the full game...though i highly doubt it.

The full game has this problem on the 360 ... so my guess it is also this way on the PC version ...
Look here for photographic proof ... http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...=108187#108187

[phoenixcreation]

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

- Chris Kline, Lead Programmer, Bioshock

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.

I have to say this kind of worries me a bit based on the current implementation of widescreen. The prompt responses above were part of what convinced me to preorder the game (see thank-you message above). Kind of a bummer that it got changed for whatever reason. I'm still holding out hope though, and would love to hear some official word.

<salute>

[Naish]

Chris Kline, you have lied to us. Your game does -NOT- support widescreen. Your game FAILS the technical requirements for Games for Windows. You people have done nothing but BS your PC users over and over.

The activation on PC but not 360
VERTICAL MINUS WIDESCREEN IS NOT WIDESCREEN
No antialiasing after it was confirmed by you guys

You've spit on your PC community time and time again, and yet you wonder why people treat 2kaustralia like a disgrace. This is nothing but a port. A bad port.

[upstart_69]

Chris Kline, you have lied to us. Your game does -NOT- support widescreen. Your game FAILS the technical requirements for Games for Windows. You people have done nothing but BS your PC users over and over.

The activation on PC but not 360
VERTICAL MINUS WIDESCREEN IS NOT WIDESCREEN
No antialiasing after it was confirmed by you guys

You've spit on your PC community time and time again, and yet you wonder why people treat 2kaustralia like a disgrace. This is nothing but a port. A bad port.

Dude, calm down a bit.

I don't think anything is going to get solved by flaming the dev team. I am sure as long as the publisher permits, these guys will fix what is wrong with their game to keep up their outstanding reputation in the PC community. And what you are saying is completely false if you gave it a half a chance-it is not a bad port.

It is an excellent game, with issues that need to be addressed.

[flapjacks]

I think I am going to make a thread in here so people can compile all the problems they are having. The game is so amazing, and just these small (they should be small) technical fixes should be quick and easy for the developers.

[Glottis]

Naish....

I am with you brother,and I am severly pissed,as I spent a boatload for this game,but ease off a bit.


Now if this hasnt been addressed within say 72 hours in one way or another,then....then get the pitchforks out.

One thing that does get me is he never claimed proper 16:10 support.... in all of the posts he made.

[Osuperman]

Because the game's textures have been designed with 4:3 resolutions in mind, when you zoom in on that image, (much like STALKER did, pre patch) you end up lowering the resolution of those textures, therefore us widescreen users are unfairly getting a lower texture IQ than those on 4:3 displays, check it out for yourselves, the difference may be slight, but it's noticeable.

On my first play though I thought the backgrounds looked very blocky, and that my mouse was jumping around like mad, its all due to this zooming-in of the 4:3 native resolution of the game... Play through the demo in 4:3 and everything looks so much better (even without AA, but thats a whole different story... sigh).

[Naish]

Naish....

I am with you brother,and I am severly pissed,as I spent a boatload for this game,but ease off a bit.


Now if this hasnt been addressed within say 72 hours in one way or another,then....then get the pitchforks out.

One thing that does get me is he never claimed proper 16:10 support.... in all of the posts he made.

I'll be happy enough with the 16:9 they promised. That atleast does not give me headaches. Vert- does. We will never get 16:10, 2K doesn't care enough, but now that the 360 users got screwed too? Yea, we'll get 16:9 fixed. I don't mind the small black bar at the top/bottom, it's not noticable. My monitor doesn't do 1440x1050 or I'd be using it right now.

[Laser Eyes]

How the dev team could screw it up after I explained the difference between 'horizontal plus' and 'vertical minus' so clearly in my first two posts I will never understand.

[Glottis]

How the dev team could screw it up after I explained the difference between 'horizontal plus' and 'vertical minus' so clearly in my first two posts I will never understand.

True,I read it..


12+ Hours and STILL no 'official response'


Soon ? soon must mean something very different in Boston and Australia.