What made X-COM unique (from a fan)
* Randomly generated levels.
* Totally destructible environment.
* Electro flares.
* Flying heavy armor.
* Tactical control over AI units.
* Resource system that requires capturing without destroying.
* Base defense.
Those are unique core features of the original that still no other game to this date has replicated.
If it delivers that, then I can accept it as an FPS.
Otherwise, I'll wait ten more years...
Originally Posted by Julian Gollop
To other 'hardcore' fans:
People who complain about it not being TBS forget that there are a lot of similar games out there, like Jagged Alliance, Silent Storm, etc and even Julian Gollop himself has released two games since called Laser Squadron Nemesis and Rebelstar Tactical Command (and it's your own bloody fault that he isn't the guy behind new X-COM games because not enough of you bought those titles).
This is very much a case of pragmatism on behalf of the developers. A turn-based game just won't sell enough copies to justify the costs that would be involved in making an update to X-Com that we all would be happy with. We want fancy graphics, sound and TBS but to appeal to the general game playing public, this needs to be a FPS. It's just the way things have gone and it's what the punters want. What we hope will happen is that the crucial X-Com elements such as those you've mentioned are incorporated into the action.
As for Julian's releases, these have catered for small markets and had limited impact due to being quite niche products(PC play by email and the Gameboy-I played this on my DS and enjoyed the time-limited fun it gave me!)
I was mulling this over today, and it occurred to me that maybe they avoided a straight TBS remake because it simply can't be done. Even the original people making XCOM moved away from TBS because I think they knew they couldn't top their first effort. If 2K kept the underlying game the same but updated the graphics and interface, fans would be underwhelmed. If they tweaked the basic game while also updating it, I have a feeling they would lose the fans as well because it "doesn't have the same feel". So it makes sense to take it in a new direction.
Originally Posted by fastestlouigie
I used to think so too, but the remake of Serious Sam has been well accepted for the most part. I get the impression that the same is true for the Monkey Island remake, but I could be wrong. The question in the case of such a remake of X-COM: UFO Defense is a matter of budget. Would it produce a profit? It's hard to say.
I think the MI remake is a graphical overhaul with voice-overs. Some day... I will buy it. Don't have enough money, but I'm itching to get it. Particularly because I want to support this kind of thing.
Originally Posted by japester
I think such an X-COM would make a lot of people happy, mostly because of the compatibility problems of the X-COM games on newer systems. The question again is: would they make a profit? Note that I don't know that for either of the remakes, just that the SS remake has been well received among its fanbase.
I'll agree that a turn-based game isn't necessarily going to sell as well as a real-time on (though I have to admit that agreeing to that in the forum of the same company that's publishing Civ 5 feels a little bit strange...)
Originally Posted by fastestlouigie
But doesn't that point merely argue why we haven't seen a "faithful" update? I don't see as how that exactly makes the case for justifying making it something else entirely. I'll probably never be able to go to outer space - that doesn't mean I need to go to the bottom of the sea instead.
OT: I guess if I really had to get down to it - and for the sake of argument we rule out the fact that it's my all-time favorite turn-based game series in a world where even back then it was a rather rare creature to begin with - but okay, it's real-time and first-person - and describe what I felt to be what made X-Com unique:
These games have long been hailed as an example of "emergent storytelling." There are no "personalities" in the game. The models themselves are often just this side of ugly, and there's not even your genre-standard comment texts (a la Fallout 1 and Jagged Alliance.) The only "story" is the origins of this group of evil aliens as you slowly uncover more and more info about them (and even then you're sort of given a bunch of info and it's still up to you to piece it together, to a certain extent.)
And yet it could be incredibly compelling. Five or six missions in, and it's really easy to grow attached what few of your team has actually managed to survive. I absolutely cannot be the only one who's reloaded a game in mid-battle simply because they decided they couldn't bear the thought of (insert randomly-generated name) dying like that.
I guess that's what always set this game apart from a lot of others for me if I was to look beyond the obvious gameplay elements.
to the OP:
very solid points!
to the posts above me:
TBS can sell quite nicely I would like to argue.
CiV iV sold twice as many copies as Bioshock 2 (close to 6 million I believe)
Heroes of Might and Magic V (without Add-ons) sold as many copies as Bioshock 2 (2,5 million copies)
(Just to name a two examples)
It just has to be a big developer with the resources and the will to shoulder a AAA TBS-title.
Laser Squad and all the other smaller X-Com-like/TBS games were made by small developer teams or were even fan projects that didn`t necesserily offer more then the "classics".
And there has to be a decent attempt to reinstall Jagged Alliance yet.
There is so much choice out there in terms of FPS that an FPS X-Com would have to compete with. I believe the TBS market is actually esier to harvest from.
On top of that the avarage gamer is in his/her 30ies today, financially strong (opposed to kids) and actually values solid gameplay over graphics.
Also think of nurturing an IP and a fan-base. How many shooters out there get played once and then are forgotten forever? How about replayability? Oh, a fps might have 2,3 different endings. But basically all is prescribed and there is little sandboxish there that offers long term motivation.
just my 2 cents
Last edited by Paendrag; 04-16-2010 at 01:31 PM.
Bioshock (the original) sold around 4 million actually and the sequel around 3 million. Neither game was a financial failure by any means though.
Not to say that I necessarily disagree, but if you want to prove a point, might I suggest that Bioshock 2 is a relatively recent release (especially if you want to be comparing it to Civ IV, which has had a good 5 years to make money?)
The point I was trying to make is, that TBS doesen`t necesserily means automatic failure, as some people seem to suggest. You have million selling tbs games out there that can easily compare to the fps saleswise.
Originally Posted by nu_clear_day
So I think I still can`t really understand why they made the move to develop a X-Com FPS and not a TBS.
Bioshock is half of what previous titles were...same goes for the Civ titles. Selling numbers don't say everything about a game.
Originally Posted by Aegeri
they could have stuck to a turn based version of xcom quite easily, sure the development team would have had to cut down on funding and possibly man power. But games like civ4 prove it possible and that with a very limited number of developers. xcom has its basic gameplay mechanics already in place and if companies can keep making xcom clones then they must be making money.
i agree that the fps market has so much competition that making a profit there is probably harder than in a TBS genre. Considering XCOM was the leading TBS game, its safe to say if done right it would outsell quite alot of other games in all genres even with it being a TBS. i would love for 2k to re-release any of the original xcom trilogy with improved grahpics. I would by them up fast.
I dont mind it being an fps had they stuck to some osrt of squad control similar to brothers in arms. Or prehaps having multiple camera views similar to xcom alliance and spacehulk. But it looks like the game will be heavily scripted and with little to no squad control. Also highly unlkely to have terrain destruction which was a key element to strategies in xcom.
Last edited by Gorkel; 04-18-2010 at 02:34 AM.
I doubt it will have anything your looking for, as they said you will be an FBI agent, It will probably be a story driven FPS game like splinter cell, with about 18 levels which you will do various things, and it will leave you at an inevitable open ending, to facilitate another lifeless sequel.
Originally Posted by eobet
And in regard's to your "To other 'hardcore fans" comment, Rebalstar tactical command sucks, and so does laser squadron nemesis, since their missing some of the key element's of the X-com games. and also you forgot.
UFO 2000 - I hate it (Fan Remake)
UFO Aftermath (Good if you liked Apocalypse)
UFO Aftershock (Good if you liked Apocalypse)
UFO Afterlight (Good if you liked Apocalypse)
UFO Extraterrestrials (About as close as you'll get to a modern UFO : Defense)
UFO Extraterrestrials 2 : Shadows over earth (Q4 2010)
And its not our fault he is not behind the new X-com game because I'm pretty sure most of us bought the game at least twice at this point, and the fact that the license was tossed around between company's like a drag-queen at a tractor pull.
im a big fan of xcom apoc, but i didnt like the UFO after... series. UFO extraterrestrials was good though.
I just found the UFO after, series more like X-com apoc in the real-time sense. however there was some improvements to the game, and quite a bit of short-comings which made it fail to me.
Originally Posted by Gorkel
I liked how you controlled training your soldiers got, as well as levelups
I liked how you could control construction of robot units and tanks
I hated real-time combat
I hated that the buildings we partially distructable, until the later ones. but the real-time combat ruined it a-lot for me, and I hated the biomass that was annoying.
I liked everything about Extra-terrestrials except that it was not on earth, and there was a lot of little functionality issues, mostly fixed by b-mans mod.
The After series is a big fat turd. Extraterrestrials is pretty decent, but I find it to feel a little clunky, which is bad for a TBS game.
About the Cengega Titles UFO Afterxxxx series...
I actually thought them quite decent (bought them all). Yes they had their issues and were quite buggy, but they got a few things right and even improved in some areas (RPG elements/training, customizable weapons, ground combat vehicles for example).
It wasn`t TBS, but their combat system was still squad based and tactical in its core. Since you could pause anytime and give commands, the major difference was that things happened simultanious and not sequenced like in "your turn, my turn".
I think considering the limited development resources available they made a good game. If they had a funding like 2k games can provide, I am sure they would have gotten it right.