Invisible Pirates vs. Real People!

[Eilarais]

I think it's time for the entire market to stop putting up with DRM. I just watched my most highly anticipated game get wrecked. Again. The only thing I can think of doing is sending a very load and a very clear message to the people responsible for doing this: I am not buying this game.

I'm genuinely sorry about the $3.5 billion dollars that the software industry loses each year to piracy. I'm sorry about the $33,295 you lost in sales during the 5 minutes it took you to read this (ahem). I'm especially sorry that in 15 years, nothing you have tried has even had an impact on this problem (ahem). However, I am not buying this game.

It's time that you understood that fictional gains do not compare to real losses. A potential sale is nothing compared to a lost customer. It is time you actually understood, instead of just reading, that I am not buying this game.. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one.

Fix the game. Apologize for your mistakes. Make an effort to work with your customers instead of force-feeding them garbage. And remember that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking the time to complain about DRM, because their games don't have any.

Arrr.

[TitoTrinidad]

Good luck. But your contribution is going to be snuffed out by the millions of hapless idiots who will buy this game on Day 1 anyway.

At the end of the day, they guys from 2K will still be sitting on top of their Ivory tower counting their money like Mr. Deeds from Monopoly.

[DeathByCactus]

more power to them. I am not buying the game either lol. I am not trying to make a difference in the world of corporate protection either I am gonna wait till I can get a copy without installing a DRM on my computer or...

Hopefully 2k will come around and release a uninstall feature for securom after I remove the game.

[Fergy33WF]

I think it's time for the entire market to stop putting up with DRM. I just watched my most highly anticipated game get wrecked. Again. The only thing I can think of doing is sending a very load and a very clear message to the people responsible for doing this: I am not buying this game.

I'm genuinely sorry about the $3.5 billion dollars that the software industry loses each year to piracy. I'm sorry about the $33,295 you lost in sales during the 5 minutes it took you to read this (ahem). I'm especially sorry that in 15 years, nothing you have tried has even had an impact on this problem (ahem). However, I am not buying this game.

It's time that you understood that fictional gains do not compare to real losses. A potential sale is nothing compared to a lost customer. It is time you actually understood, instead of just reading, that I am not buying this game.. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one.

Fix the game. Apologize for your mistakes. Make an effort to work with your customers instead of force-feeding them garbage. And remember that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking the time to complain about DRM, because their games don't have any.

Arrr.

You are a BAMF! Way to stick it to the man! Seriously though... no one important enough to make those decisions will be wandering around the forums looking for posts like these. And even if they were, you aren't gonna change their minds! Its like me trying to convince you that DRM is great... you aren't gonna care are you?

[Ondkatt]

They got the power they can do what they want

[Eilarais]

Good luck. But your contribution is going to be snuffed out by the millions of hapless idiots who will buy this game on Day 1 anyway.

At the end of the day, they guys from 2K will still be sitting on top of their Ivory tower counting their money like Mr. Deeds from Monopoly.

Well, sometimes that happens. I am not expecting the industry to turn on a dime, but one of the reasons why the anti-piracy argument is so prevalent is because publishers are not aware of how much it costs them.

[lastat811]

Well, sometimes that happens. I am not expecting the industry to turn on a dime, but one of the reasons why the anti-piracy argument is so prevalent is because publishers are not aware of how much it costs them.

you have a good point but im guessing that all the negative PI will be a downer for there sails

[Mongchimp]

Yes, but will you buy the game?

[Obturator]

you have a good point but im guessing that all the negative PI will be a downer for there sails

You would guess right. I have already convinced 10 people to cancel their orders.

[madmossy]

Who cares what copy protection the game has, its worth every penny regardless. Sure there have been some major problems with the launch but if you let something as little as that get in the way of quiet frankly the best game to be released in years then your priorities are way off.

It wouldnt supprise me for one second if 99% of the people complaining about the copy protection which obviously works as there are currently no illegal versions of the pc version available are most like either a. not going to buy it anyway as they dont have the money or b. because it hasnt been cracked they make up ways to make the game look bad.

No copy protection has ever caused me problems in games, even starforce. I understand all well they can and have caused problems but certainly not on the epedemic scale that people make out on these forums.

If you want to play bioshock and can afford it go out and get it, dont let some 12 year old kid who cant play it because he/she cant afford to buy it or cant find an illegal version make you think its not worth the money. £25 or $40 is small price to pay for something so incredible.

Finished it once and going back to play again, cant get that sort of value anywhere else tbh.

[Eilarais]

You are a BAMF! Way to stick it to the man! Seriously though... no one important enough to make those decisions will be wandering around the forums looking for posts like these. And even if they were, you aren't gonna change their minds! Its like me trying to convince you that DRM is great... you aren't gonna care are you?

I don't know which man you mean, but yes, businesses will listen to the aggregate opinions of their customers. If the majority of them react to stupid decisions by taking their money elsewhere, they will change their behavior. If the majority of them do nothing because they figure they have no power over anything, then they tend to get screwed. And if you are in any way representative of the video game market than I'm in the wrong business.

[Konn]

Good luck. But your contribution is going to be snuffed out by the millions of hapless idiots who will buy this game on Day 1 anyway.

Well yes but those sales won't be a result of the DRM they will be in spite of it (or in some cases due to the customer not being told about it).

If it's clear that the choice of DRM implementation has lost a noteworthy percentage of sales someone at a corporate level will indeed take it into consideration, especially because the result has also already caused unexpected costs in customer support as well as a wave of bad publicity, and entertainment companies are very conscious of public image.

[madmossy]

Well yes but those sales won't be a result of the DRM they will be in spite of it (or in some cases due to the customer not being told about it).

If it's clear that the choice of DRM implementation has lost a noteworthy percentage of sales someone at a corporate level will indeed take it into consideration, especially because the result has also already caused unexpected costs in customer support as well as a wave of bad publicity, and entertainment companies are very conscious of public image.

If you think a few hundred or maybe thousand people having a whine fest on some forums would actually even impact the number of sales you really need to stop back and look at the bigger picture.

I bet that if you tallied all the people who have said they would not purchase the game because of xyz reason it wouldnt even make 1% of the player base who actually did buy the game. That 1% is a very minor population and wouldnt really matter much.

I for one am fully aware of the implecations of some software copy protection being an IT professional by trade and 2K deserved my money for making such a great game, something other companies should take note of.

Good games will always sell regardless of any minor issues players have.

[Ssargon]

If you think a few hundred or maybe thousand people having a whine fest on some forums would actually even impact the number of sales you really need to stop back and look at the bigger picture.

I bet that if you tallied all the people who have said they would not purchase the game because of xyz reason it wouldnt even make 1% of the player base who actually did buy the game. That 1% is a very minor population and wouldnt really matter much.

I for one am fully aware of the implecations of some software copy protection being an IT professional by trade and 2K deserved my money for making such a great game, something other companies should take note of.

Good games will always sell regardless of any minor issues players have.

Not everyone that cancel their order or return the game will be posting on the forum.

[jonglover]

Who cares what copy protection the game has, its worth every penny regardless. Sure there have been some major problems with the launch but if you let something as little as that get in the way of quiet frankly the best game to be released in years then your priorities are way off.

It wouldnt supprise me for one second if 99% of the people complaining about the copy protection which obviously works as there are currently no illegal versions of the pc version available are most like either a. not going to buy it anyway as they dont have the money or b. because it hasnt been cracked they make up ways to make the game look bad.

No copy protection has ever caused me problems in games, even starforce. I understand all well they can and have caused problems but certainly not on the epedemic scale that people make out on these forums.

If you want to play bioshock and can afford it go out and get it, dont let some 12 year old kid who cant play it because he/she cant afford to buy it or cant find an illegal version make you think its not worth the money. £25 or $40 is small price to pay for something so incredible.

Finished it once and going back to play again, cant get that sort of value anywhere else tbh.

Hey, idiot: If you honestly think playing a video game is more important than having your consumer freedoms violated, you are the one with the f'ed up priorities. As Ben Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." So just play your game and keep fighting the good fight for a corporation who could care less whether you live or die.

And by the way, I sincerely doubt there are any pirates posting on these boards. They wouldn't waste the time since the game will be cracked within a week anyway.

[sam_justice]

I think it's time for the entire market to stop putting up with DRM. I just watched my most highly anticipated game get wrecked. Again. The only thing I can think of doing is sending a very load and a very clear message to the people responsible for doing this: I am not buying this game.

I'm genuinely sorry about the $3.5 billion dollars that the software industry loses each year to piracy. I'm sorry about the $33,295 you lost in sales during the 5 minutes it took you to read this (ahem). I'm especially sorry that in 15 years, nothing you have tried has even had an impact on this problem (ahem). However, I am not buying this game.

It's time that you understood that fictional gains do not compare to real losses. A potential sale is nothing compared to a lost customer. It is time you actually understood, instead of just reading, that I am not buying this game.. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one.

Fix the game. Apologize for your mistakes. Make an effort to work with your customers instead of force-feeding them garbage. And remember that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking the time to complain about DRM, because their games don't have any.

Arrr.

Do you actually think they care? Get over yourself, you post as though people and the devs actually care?

[Ferhling]

Do you actually think they care? Get over yourself, you post as though people and the devs actually care?

Any one post matters, any 50 bucks that they don't get matters. If they don't want to support their customers then they can lose money. 50 bucks may not seem like alot, but it will add up and add up, take a look at all the people who have canceled their orders... it will eventually add up, and odds are 2k won't nut up and admit the mistake they made... odds are they aren't going to chance a damn thing about it, and plain and simple that is their mistake because not only are they affecting their sales now, they are affecting every sale they will have future wise and are losing more and more customers as the days drag on and what 2k doesn't seem to notice is that the longer they put this off , the more customers they will lose.

[Konn]

Good games will always sell regardless of any minor issues players have.

I certainly agree, and to be fair the team who actually made this game weren't in charge of what copy protection to use and I don't want to see their success hurt by a publisher's decision.

However, customers got pissed off about starforce protection... and it actually led to publishers deciding to avoid it. If enough customers are sincerely upset about this someone is likely to keep it in mind. Given a reasonable range of options, nobody at a corporate level is willing to ignore something that could have potentially helped sell a thousand more games.

[greenphishman]

I think 5 is a good compromise, but no DRM would be awesome to. It gives you more room to play around with, if you accidentally eat a code due to uncontrollable problems; but if you uninstall when your not playing the game often, you shouldnt use them up quickly. People will have to uninstall games they are not playing much in the future, it seems. You can always call and get more codes. Hopefully if the server is going to crap out on Bioshock; 2K or whatever company has the Bioshock rights at the point, will patch the game to not need codes. Im thinking by the time Bioshock 2, or whatever the heir to the game comes along, 2K will back off security on the original Bioshock.

I hate the idea behind DRM, but I also hated paying for MP3s after I got them for free for a long time. The industry is changing and we are going to have to get use to. I dont think the issue is going to go away, just because some refuse to put up with it. You have to adapt and accept there will be some time of security and protection in the game, or get left behind. Some type of security has been in gaming for a long time, some more intrusive than others. Hopefully as time goes and companies experiment more, the security will be more streamlined and less of a headache. Some of the experiments will go up in fire, lock things down to much or take things to far. I remember back before Authentication Keys were common place, many people were up in arms about it. People were upset that if they lost the code for whatever reason, they wouldnt be able to use the software again and would be forced to buy the software all over. Authentication Keys are almost a given now and people dont give them a second thought.

[SharpeShot]

I think it's time for the entire market to stop putting up with DRM. I just watched my most highly anticipated game get wrecked. Again. The only thing I can think of doing is sending a very load and a very clear message to the people responsible for doing this: I am not buying this game.

I'm genuinely sorry about the $3.5 billion dollars that the software industry loses each year to piracy. I'm sorry about the $33,295 you lost in sales during the 5 minutes it took you to read this (ahem). I'm especially sorry that in 15 years, nothing you have tried has even had an impact on this problem (ahem). However, I am not buying this game.

It's time that you understood that fictional gains do not compare to real losses. A potential sale is nothing compared to a lost customer. It is time you actually understood, instead of just reading, that I am not buying this game.. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one.

Fix the game. Apologize for your mistakes. Make an effort to work with your customers instead of force-feeding them garbage. And remember that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking the time to complain about DRM, because their games don't have any.

Arrr.

While you complain about the game ill be playing it and enjoying it. Sucks to be you have fun crying. Its a single player game and theya re fixing the activation thing.

[Lineus]

I just registered an ID here so I could add another vote for not buying this game. DRM has been out of hand for ages now, but this is simply over the line. I've already canceled my order for Bioshock, and I've finally convinced a few friends to do the same. I'd count us as at least 5-6 more people that have either canceled orders or simply decided not to buy the game.

Copy protection is something I've always seen as a necessary evil. A CD-key so I could play online...sure no big deal. Having to put the CD in to play, stupid, but as long as nocd patches are made, I don't care about that. Those were the good old days though. The PR for the fiasco that is the Bioshock installation is enough to keep me away. I can't even install without an internet connection? Heh, yeah, that's a feature that's obviously in the best interest of the legitimate buyer. You can't get that to work right anyway. Congrats on surge of customer confidence. I can only install/reinstall twice? That's another huge boon to the legit buyer right? You wouldn't be actively trying to discourage legal buyers would you? Hordes of people that gave you money can't use your product or had great pains doing so. How many do you think will be repeat customers?

DRM is not a solution. It'll be yet another broken copy protection soon enough. Those people that didn't want to spend their money, they're cheap enough to just wait it out. Those of us that were willing to spend our money, well, some will undoubtedly tuck tail and suckle the corporate teat. Some will resort to piracy. More and more people are saying that they've had enough though. Just like with all those damned starforced games, I can add Bioshock and 2k in general to my list of companies that don't get my money. How many real sales do you have to lose before you see that 'potential sales' aren't nearly as profitable? I'm going to guess it's a big number.

[Lineus]

... the result has also already caused unexpected costs in customer support as well as a wave of bad publicity, and entertainment companies are very conscious of public image.

Let's not forget the money they spent on the copy protection in the first place. That's good money these days.

[Charon Xeno]

I also won't buy this game.
Why? Because I want to BUY this game, not rent or lease it, at Sony's (SecuRom's) and 2K Game's mercy.
"Please let me play that game I paid 50$ for. Please activate it so I can play. Please allow me to reactive it after I bought a new Graphics card or installed new RAM. Please let me re-install it after I had to wipe my HD."
You are treating me, and the rest of your customers as potential pirates who first need to prove they are really customers.
I was a great fan of System Shock and System Shock 2 (yes, I'm that old) and I bet Bioshock would be a great game. But like HalfLife 2, unless I buy the whole game when I buy the game, and not "playing at 2K game's pleasure" I won't purchase it.

[madmossy]

Hey, idiot: If you honestly think playing a video game is more important than having your consumer freedoms violated, you are the one with the f'ed up priorities. As Ben Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." So just play your game and keep fighting the good fight for a corporation who could care less whether you live or die.

And by the way, I sincerely doubt there are any pirates posting on these boards. They wouldn't waste the time since the game will be cracked within a week anyway.

I know my rights as a consumer but I also respect the rights of a corporation to protect its intellectual property. As for the software getting cracked maybe so but atleast it kept the game from being cracked at its launch which is when a majority of sales will take place.

Imho those that are ☺☺☺☺☺ing about the protection have no intentions of buying the game in the first place.

[madmossy]

I also won't buy this game.
Why? Because I want to BUY this game, not rent or lease it, at Sony's (SecuRom's) and 2K Game's mercy.
"Please let me play that game I paid 50$ for. Please activate it so I can play. Please allow me to reactive it after I bought a new Graphics card or installed new RAM. Please let me re-install it after I had to wipe my HD."
You are treating me, and the rest of your customers as potential pirates who first need to prove they are really customers.
I was a great fan of System Shock and System Shock 2 (yes, I'm that old) and I bet Bioshock would be a great game. But like HalfLife 2, unless I buy the whole game when I buy the game, and not "playing at 2K game's pleasure" I won't purchase it.

Umm Bioshocks copy protection doesnt kick in unless there is a major hardware change. ie motherboard, cpu and gfx card not just one item, as for that you can just un-install it without issue. You can install the game upto a max of 5 on different systems (your legally only allowed to play one at a time though)

If for any reason your system dies and you are unable to un-install the game and have used up your 5 allowed installations you just contact the publishers and get those 5 activations reset. The same system is in place for Armed Assault if you buy it from online etailers and it works perfectly fine.

[Logon]

Software in my eyes is like this BF2 ex HOW FUN IS THAT PIRATED ?! you can play online and so on and so on i think that dont make it so hard lol it is going to get cracked anyways whatever you do in MP games they just dont care about the pirateing cus if u pirate the game you dont get all the features

[impar]

Something interesting is that the game has been released to Xbox360 and to PC.
Xboxers dont have any sort of DRM/Rootkit to deal with so will buy the game.
Some PCers will avoid buying the game because of DRM/Rootkit.

End result is more sales to Xbox 360 than in PC.
Expect to read someone blaming the poor PC sales in the pirates.

[Arrias]

Imho those that are ☺☺☺☺☺ing about the protection have no intentions of buying the game in the first place.

1) How is that opinion humble?

2) Yes, people who are concerned about how they as consumers will be treated now and in the future means they must be pirates! [/sarcasm]

3) All the fanboys who happily call these people whiners etc. are losing their beloved company even more money! Think about it, I'm a bit irritated at the legitimate concerns with this copy protection, I read the forums to find out more and I find anyone who has these concerns is being called a whiner, telling people they are having a great time with the game or being as backwards as to question the complainers age (as always, there were people saying "well I'm ***, son"). Now, not only am I worried about the copy protection, I'm pissed off that if I'm worried I'm automatically a pirate or a whiner... almost not worth buying just to counter the fanboy vote.

There's always the excuse that for every "whiner" there are X people playing it happily with no complaints, but then take into account all the people who are reading and not buying and telling others to not buy (how many thousands of views have all the associated threads had?), but whom are also not posting. That's normally what I do when this sort of problem arises with an highly anticipated game, but I changed this approach with starforce for the very same reasons I am now.

You also have to take into account that a percentage of the "you're all a bunch of whiners, I'm having a great time" are employees of securom (happened with starforce, after all) and astroturfers (PR people do seem to love them so) if they can get away with it.

So many people who are worried wont want to post because of all the fanboys who rabidly defend the publisher (no evidence the dev's are responsible for this, after all), so they just don't buy the game instead.

Well done you.

[M-O-S]

Lol @ "fanboy", "fanboys" word.....didn't know gamers used that word, to be honest, I never used that word lol.

[KelsieKatt]

You are a BAMF! Way to stick it to the man! Seriously though... no one important enough to make those decisions will be wandering around the forums looking for posts like these. And even if they were, you aren't gonna change their minds! Its like me trying to convince you that DRM is great... you aren't gonna care are you?

Actually it's possible that if they get enough complaints they will stop. Ubisoft used to put Starforce on everything, but people got upset and now its gone.

[Arrias]

Lol @ "fanboy", "fanboys" word.....didn't know gamers used that word, to be honest, I never used that word lol.

It's a pretty common word, especially around these forums at the moment.

Regarding my previous post...
I really should learn to wake up before I post, the grammar and punctuation are awful, but I guess it still gets my point across.

[elessar777]

It's a pretty common word, especially around these forums at the moment.

Regarding my previous post...
I really should learn to wake up before I post, the grammar and punctuation are awful, but I guess it still gets my point across.

bah don't worry about it. Lack of edit function sucks bigtime

Oh btw guys. It has been cracked.

[Bigpapa360]

I think it's time for the entire market to stop putting up with DRM. I just watched my most highly anticipated game get wrecked. Again. The only thing I can think of doing is sending a very load and a very clear message to the people responsible for doing this: I am not buying this game.

I'm genuinely sorry about the $3.5 billion dollars that the software industry loses each year to piracy. I'm sorry about the $33,295 you lost in sales during the 5 minutes it took you to read this (ahem). I'm especially sorry that in 15 years, nothing you have tried has even had an impact on this problem (ahem). However, I am not buying this game.

It's time that you understood that fictional gains do not compare to real losses. A potential sale is nothing compared to a lost customer. It is time you actually understood, instead of just reading, that I am not buying this game.. And I seriously doubt that I'm the only one.

Fix the game. Apologize for your mistakes. Make an effort to work with your customers instead of force-feeding them garbage. And remember that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking the time to complain about DRM, because their games don't have any.

Arrr.

Thanks for the concern, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED. I hate people who say " Oh I'm not buying this game because blah blah and this isnt what I want, so you have one less customer". Who the hell cares!?! You are one person, see that ONE. At most thats $80 down, at the same time they just made $1,000,000 from all the smart people who knew what the PC version had on it and opted for the 360 version. Boy I'm loving that LE Bouncer statue of mine! And as I said beforeYOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!

[elessar777]

Thanks for the concern, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED. I hate people who say " Oh I'm not buying this game because blah blah and this isnt what I want, so you have one less customer". Who the hell cares!?! You are one person, see that ONE. At most thats $80 down, at the same time they just made $1,000,000 from all the smart people who knew what the PC version had on it and opted for the 360 version. Boy I'm loving that LE Bouncer statue of mine! And as I said beforeYOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!

that's very short sighted thinking

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+.......

It's that exact same type of thinking that makes people beleive nothing they do in life will ever affect the world. WRONG!!!!! If that was the case then nothing anyone does has any significance......in which case we wouldn't be typing on a forum connected by 1s and 0s and wires....lol wake up

[Markasaurus]

OP: I like your message. If you want it to be read by someone other than forum trolls, type it, print it, and mail it to 2K games. Thanks!

[undead4110]

Something interesting is that the game has been released to Xbox360 and to PC.
Xboxers dont have any sort of DRM/Rootkit to deal with so will buy the game.
Some PCers will avoid buying the game because of DRM/Rootkit.

End result is more sales to Xbox 360 than in PC.
Expect to read someone blaming the poor PC sales in the pirates.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...xboxpiracy.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...kgiggleby7.jpg

[thurauh1]

I think I have one game with Starforce. It is the adventure game 'dreamfall'. At least this game makes no secret out of that it will install starforce drivers on your system. There also is a starforce removal tool to clean up your system after you're finished installing the game. This is how it should be.

In a different thread, a veteran gamer said that developers for Realms of Arkania released one of the games in that series for DM 29,99 (about 15 Euros, games normally were priced at about 45-50 Euros). The game still sold heaps and heaps and heaps while the game also were pirated in heaps and heaps and heaps. (still not a recommendation to pirate stuff, though). People that wanted to buy the game anyway did so and people who wanted to pirate the game did so (still not a recommendation). This just goes to show that you can't say that if the people pirating the game all would have bought the game, we, the game publishers etc. would have made that more amount of money. Sadly, this isn't so - on a larger scale, anyway.

As for people not buying the game, I'm torn here, but think I have decided that it IS better for people to buy the game, since IG and Ken Levine then gets money for their hard work. And can his employeed and maybe make a new game or Bioshock 2 game...

[moofactory]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...xboxpiracy.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...kgiggleby7.jpg

ROFL..

now thats funny.

I think if 2k's mods keep digging that hole their in.. they will end up in china.

[chl]

I agree. I preordered this game unknowingly of all this, and I still haven't opened it. I will wait until the last day on which I am able to ask for a refund, and if they haven't announced a DVD replacement program by then, I will have to return the game.