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Thread: Mouse Acceleration ruining Bioshock for you? Post HERE.

  1. #441
    You are correct, mixed it up with another game for a moment there.

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by chl View Post
    You are correct, mixed it up with another game for a moment there.
    well tbh it does feel like more than two months.

  3. #443
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    It's been long enough for there to be no excuse asking retarted questions like that. We have been describing the problem since the day the game came out and posting our specs and mouse setting, now the guy asks if we are using tablets? wtf? this is like selling a car with screwed up alignment and a month later asking is we are using correct octane gas.

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by chl View Post
    Just admit you ripped the code from the analogue stick code for the 360 and get that patch out already.
    I keep seeing this accusation, which is made to imply that 2K tried to take a shortcut in the PC version, but it's completely wrong.

    A joystick is an "absolute" input device and a mouse is "relative". They are two totally different beasts, and you can't "rip the code" from one to use in the other. There's no shortcut to take.

    The mouse code is FUBAR, no doubt, but it wasn't "ripped" from the Xbox joystick code. It just sucks and needs to be fixed.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit View Post
    two months later and still blaming it on the hardware lol. rewrite you mouse code.
    Do you mean 2k are blaming it on hardware? If this is the case they clearly have absolutely no idea. I can run Crysis on high and the mouse is smooth as silk. 2k need to have a chat to Valve and Crytek about pc fundamentals.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
    2k need to have a chat to Valve and Crytek about pc fundamentals.
    QABFT!

    (Quoted and bolded for truth)

  7. #447
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    Same problem here; I have an MX 518, and have to have the mouse sensitivity set to 1, but even that doesn't feel right. I hope this is fixed in the patch.

    P.

  8. #448
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    Windows XP
    Logitech G3
    same problem,
    also sensivity seems to be very low @respawn, then increase...

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
    Do you mean 2k are blaming it on hardware? If this is the case they clearly have absolutely no idea. I can run Crysis on high and the mouse is smooth as silk. 2k need to have a chat to Valve and Crytek about pc fundamentals.
    Sadly, I don't think they really give a crap about pc fundamentals as long as the money is coming in from the xbox. Valve added a 90 degree fov to TF2 within a week of the BETA release, this game has been at retail for almost two months and we still have to use the hack.

  10. #450
    Hey all,

    Please give this a shot and post back if it makes the mouse movement feel better to you:

    1.) Open BOTH DefUser.ini and User.ini in NotePad
    2.) Copy and paste the following lines into the bottom of both files

    [Engine.PlayerInput]
    MouseSmoothingMode=0
    MouseAccelThreshold=0

    3.) Save both files and launch the game

    This will disable the mouse smoothing and acceleration code. If possible, remove any prior tweaks before trying this so that you have a clean baseline to make further minor adjustments.




    If you are still having trouble, please answer as many of the following as possible (and applicable):

    What is your current mouse? (Razer Diamondback, MX518, etc..)

    What mouse driver software do you have installed, and what settings have you changed in these programs? (Logitech SetPoint, Razer Control Panel, etc..)

    What polling rate is your mouse set to?

    What DPI is your mouse using?

    Are all Windows and Mouse Driver acceleration features disabled?

    Have you made any modifications to the BioShock .ini files?

    What is the value of the In-Game Mouse Sensitivity?

    What frame rate are you averaging?

    What resolution are you normally running?

    What is the exact behavior you are seeing? (Lean toward being overly-detailed in your description, please.)

    It's always our goal to make sure everyone enjoys the title to it's fullest, so thanks in advance for working with us!

  11. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    Hey all,

    Please give this a shot and post back if it makes the mouse movement feel better to you:
    Tried that already. It doesn't work for me. I've tried it with an existing config, and I've tried it with a brand new config after removing my existing .ini files and letting the game re-create them from the defaults. Didn't work either way.
    If you are still having trouble, please answer as many of the following as possible (and applicable):

    What is your current mouse? (Razer Diamondback, MX518, etc..)
    I've tried a Kensington Expert Mouse, a CH Products DT225, and a Logitech MX518. Separately, and in combinations.
    What mouse driver software do you have installed, and what settings have you changed in these programs? (Logitech SetPoint, Razer Control Panel, etc..)
    Just the standard Windows Vista HID mouse driver (mouhid.sys 6.0.6000.16386). I've used the "CPL fix", which changes the registry setting for the acceleration curve used by the driver, and flattens it. I've also tried a "hacked" version of mouhid.sys that has had the instructions to enable acceleration NOOPed, so that is impossible for the driver to add acceleration, even if an application changes the settings. And I still get the acceleration in BioShock.

    BioShock was the first application I installed after installing Vista. I have now also installed the ET:QW demo, and it does not exhibit any mouse problems.
    What polling rate is your mouse set to?
    The HID standard 125Hz.
    What DPI is your mouse using?
    The Kensington uses an Avago, nee Agilent, ADNS-2051 optical sensor. It is specced at 800cpi. The DT225 is old-school opto-mechanical tech. I believe it is supposed to be in the 400cpi range. The MX518 uses the ADNS-3080, which can do 400, 800, or and 1600cpi, and BioShock exhibits the same symptoms in all of them.
    Are all Windows and Mouse Driver acceleration features disabled?
    Yes. Permanently. See above.
    Have you made any modifications to the BioShock .ini files?
    The problem occurs with brand new INIs, or heavily modified. It doesn't matter.
    What is the value of the In-Game Mouse Sensitivity?
    I have tried 1, 2, 3, and 9. Nine, of course, is ludicrously fast, and even if there was a human alive who could effectively control the game at that setting, it still has the acceleration. Worse, in fact.

    The lower the Sensitivity, the less noticable the acceleration. However, setting sensitivity to 1 results in the cursor becoming more-or-less unusable. When the mouse speed drops under a certain amount, the cursor doesn't just slow, it stops completely.
    What frame rate are you averaging?
    I don't know, as there's no in-game display, and I don't feel like installing a third party app to figure it out.

    It doesn't matter if I'm facing a blank wall and maxing out my framerate, or looking at some complicated framerate-clobbering geometry, though, the acceleration problem is still there. The effects are more noticable when the framerate dips, of course, because you don't get the instant feedback that you get from higher framerates.
    What resolution are you normally running?
    1280x1024, which is the native resolution for my monitor. I've also tried it at 1024x768. I've also tried both at 60Hz and 75Hz, with no difference (I had to use DirectX 9 for 75Hz, because with DX 10 the refresh rate is locked at 60Hz).
    What is the exact behavior you are seeing? (Lean toward being overly-detailed in your description, please.)
    When moving the mouse at normal speeds, it feels a bit "sloppy", but it's workable. However, when the mouse speed slows down, i.e. when I'm trying to draw a bead on some splicer's head, the on-screen movement slows down proportionately to a point, then drops off a cliff, and barely moves at all, so then you have to speed up to compensate and hopefully get your crosshairs on target. However when you go past the "acceleration threshold", the movement takes off at full speed again and you overshoot your target.

    This is what experienced gamer-types call, "highly ☺☺☺☺ing annoying."

    It is very easily reproduced objectively. I can place a mouse on the left edge of a mousepad and slowly move it right until the on-screen player turns 180 degrees. Then, if I move the mouse back to the left somewhat quickly, the player will turn back 180 degrees by the time the mouse is about half way back to the left edge of the pad. That there's some craptastic acceleration.

    I think I've covered all my bases here. Sure, I haven't tried replacing my motherboard, video card, or sound card, nor have I wiped my drive and installed Windows XP to see if that helps. Nor have I sacrified a live chicken at a makeshift altar in a graveyard under a full moon while sprinkling holy water on my computer and shouting, "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!"

    But I think I've tried all the other reasonable options, and I'm pretty sure the problem's not with my computer.
    It's always our goal to make sure everyone enjoys the title to it's fullest, so thanks in advance for working with us!
    If you fix the mouse problems, I'll never ask 2K for anything else as long as I live. Except for a fix for DX10 turning vsync on every time. And DX10 being stuck at 60Hz. And for BioShock asking for the damn DVD in my drive every time I play. Also, some cake would be nice.

  12. #452
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    What is your current mouse?
    -- Copperhead


    What mouse driver software do you have installed, and what settings have you changed in these programs?
    --Razer Control Panel

    What polling rate is your mouse set to?
    --1000

    What DPI is your mouse using?
    --2000

    Are all Windows and Mouse Driver acceleration features disabled?
    --YES

    Have you made any modifications to the BioShock .ini files?
    --YES

    What is the value of the In-Game Mouse Sensitivity?
    --4 so that my menus work properly. and so that I can use the hacking game.. but then I have F9 bound to changing my mouse sensitivity to 0.3 which does not change the In-Game Mouse Sensitivity or the menu sensitivity at all. (i did this to tolerate the game the 1 night I was bored)

    What frame rate are you averaging?
    --it would help if you could easily turn on the frame rate but it's probably over ---- 120 FPS

    What resolution are you normally running?
    --640x480 .. because it seems laggyer on higher resoloutions even though the game still runs fine on higher as far as fps.

    What is the exact behavior you are seeing?
    -- Well well whenever i load up a game or start a new game the mouse barely moves at all.. after waiting for about 1 min the sensitivity evens out. (this is when I usually use my keybind to change sens to 0.3)

    -- Prior to all of my config changes and the bind. I was experiencing not being able to move my mouse at all with in game sens of 2 or 1 on the menus .. and the mouse turning really really really fast in game. I maybe did a 360 when I should have been doing 20 degree turn or so. now.. let's say I turn my dpi on my mouse way down to 400. depending on how fast I would move the mouse it would turn a different amount. and it was really really weird.. there was a point where if I moved my mouse slow enough I would barely turn.. and then if I moved it really fast i would turn like crazy. It was so weird.. it was like there was no in between. So to reiterate .. depending on how fast I move my mouse .. in game SLOW SLOW SLOW SLOW .. FASTEST FASTEST FASTEST .. there was no in between speeds.. kind of like an analog pad on gamecube with mario running.. you either walk or run..

    anyway here's to getting it fixed.

  13. #453
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    Greetings!

    Ok, was reading the thread looking for a fix to this problem when I bumped into this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Logy View Post
    Actually, there are several other possible explanations:

    • The devs deliberately made the mouse input the way it is to give PC users a simulation of the clunky experience of playing an FPS with a gamepad.
    • The PC testers had never actually played a FPS before, and assumed that the mouse behavior was supposed to simulate the movements of a drunken spastic.
    • The PC testers were actual drunken spastics, and therefore didn't notice.
    • There were no PC testers.
    • There were PC testers, they did notice, but the devs/publisher decided it was more important to get the game on shelves than it was to have it playable.

    ...
    Pure gold! And, sadly, so verosimile...

    So, what seems to be the best fix to the crappy mouse control?

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by impar View Post
    So, what seems to be the best fix to the crappy mouse control?
    Uninstall. And dont forget to delete the rootkit.

  15. #455
    Is there anyone running XP, who has disabled the Mouse Smoothing and Mouse Acceleration in BioShock and Windows, and is still seeing a problem? The issue seems to be localized to those running Vista, particularly with a very high-DPI mouse and mouse registry edits applied.

    Please understand that this is not a global issue and mouse acceleration is not a problem for the majority of users. Thanks again for working with us in determining the exact setups in which the problem occurs. We are in no way ignoring the issue, but we have been unable to internally reproduce some of the behavior a few of you are seeing, such as the mouse dying completely on small movements.

    Logy and Shiznit, have you tried playing on a setup in Vista that does not have the CPL Fix? The CPL Fix was originally intended for XP only, it's still unclear what effect it has on Vista installations.

  16. #456
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    2k Jake, you are either delusional or just full of it. This is not a Vista problem, it's is a Bioshock problem, I run XP Pro and XP x64 and Vista x64 on three separate partions, I tried Bioshock on all of them and the mouse control was FUBAR, every other game I own works perfectly. I have acceleration disabled in windows (i even tried a hacked system file to completely get rid of it), i am not using any drivers (i set my dpi and then uninstalled, Deathadder remembers the setting) and the mouse control was still FUBAR. Before I bought the Deathadder i used my 3 year old MX510 (withough any drivers also, i dont like interpolation) that has never had any issue in any game and never failed me through three seasons of CAL Counter-Strike Source and Call of Duty. By the way, the mouse sensitivity scale in-game is retarded, setting 2 is way to fast for low sens players (which most counterstrike players are), and the cursor doesnt work right on setting 1 making hacking and other tasks that require the cursor impossible (my mouse is already on the lowest dpi setting and am not changing the windows sens from 6/11 i hope you understand why or you should re-read this thread).

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit View Post
    2k Jake, you are either delusional or just full of it. This is not a Vista problem, it's is a Bioshock problem, I run XP Pro and XP x64 and Vista x64 on three separate partions, I tried Bioshock on all of them and the mouse control was FUBAR, every other game I own works perfectly. I have acceleration disabled in windows (i even tried a hacked system file to completely get rid of it), i am not using any drivers (i set my dpi and then uninstalled, Deathadder remembers the setting) and the mouse control was still FUBAR. Before I bought the Deathadder i used my 3 year old MX510 (withough any drivers also, i dont like interpolation) that has never had any issue in any game and never failed me through three seasons of CAL Counter-Strike Source and Call of Duty. By the way, the mouse sensitivity scale in-game is retarded, setting 2 is way to fast for low sens players (which most counterstrike players are), and the cursor doesnt work right on setting 1 making hacking and other tasks that require the cursor impossible (my mouse is already on the lowest dpi setting and am not changing the windows sens from 6/11 i hope you understand why or you should re-read this thread).
    Uh apparently you don't read. The issue seems to be centralized around people who have the CPL/CAL mouse acceleration fix. What about that didn't you understand? xD...

  18. #458
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    I forgot to add, its not just the acceleration that is an issue. As i and many other have said, the mouse sensitivity seems to function in separate tiers making smooth control unpredictable and frustrating. You move the mouse a certain speed and then you speed up your hand motion just a little bit but the game increases it exponentionally. The high dpi users dont notice this and i think it's because they are in the highest tier 99% of the time, but for a 450dpi low sens person like me the switch in speeds happened constantly as i was trying to shoot enemies. Besides, high dpi users are generally used to a lesser degree of control anyway and might not notice.

  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitaLbraVo View Post
    Uh apparently you don't read. The issue seems to be centralized around people who have the CPL/CAL mouse acceleration fix. What about that didn't you understand? xD...
    I have tried w/o that, makes no difference.

  20. #460
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    I support you completely. I *HATE* mouse acceleration. It really ruins it, and your aim in other games too.

  21. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    Is there anyone running XP, who has disabled the Mouse Smoothing and Mouse Acceleration in BioShock and Windows, and is still seeing a problem? The issue seems to be localized to those running Vista, particularly with a very high-DPI mouse and mouse registry edits applied.

    Please understand that this is not a global issue and mouse acceleration is not a problem for the majority of users. Thanks again for working with us in determining the exact setups in which the problem occurs. We are in no way ignoring the issue, but we have been unable to internally reproduce some of the behavior a few of you are seeing, such as the mouse dying completely on small movements.
    As I've mentioned, I've tried this with a variety of different input devices ranging from low to high CPI, initially without any modifications to the registry whatsoever. It was a brand new install of Vista, with only the most recent drivers for the sound and video cards, Direct X, and OS patches installed before installing BioShock. It doesn't get much cleaner than that.

    All I have to do to reproduce the "non moving cursor" is drop the sensitivity to 1. It's more easily noticable with a low-CPI mouse.

    Logy and Shiznit, have you tried playing on a setup in Vista that does not have the CPL Fix? The CPL Fix was originally intended for XP only, it's still unclear what effect it has on Vista installations.
    I did a lot of research experimentation with this, and found that it apparently behaves the same way in Vista as in XP, i.e. the mouse driver reads the two registry entries that set the acceleration curve, and the "CPL fix" changes those entries to "flatten" the curve.

    Since the mouse problem was happening before I even modified anything, I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with the "CPL fix".

    Another indication that it's happening in BioShock and nowhere else: Sometimes when I start the game I get two cursors (until I click something), the desktop cursor, which has been changed into a thin cross, and the shiny golden game cursor. If I move the mouse slowly, the desktop cursor and the game cursor will stay the same relative distance apart, but as soon as I move quickly, the game cursor will take off and leave the desktop cursor in the dust.

    Also, I installed the Unreal Tournament 3 demo today, another Unreal Engine game. It does not have any noticable mouse acceleration. Just an FYI.

  22. #462
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    "Please understand that this is not a global issue and mouse acceleration is not a problem for the majority of users."

    I firmly believe that this just means that most people don't recognize mouse acceleration. I know many people that run XP or OS X with mouse acc without even knowing it - even though, too me, the pointer feel horribly inaccurate and borderline unusable with it turned on.
    The issue may be better/worse depending on what mouse and DPI you have, but there's not a doubt in my mind that Bioshock's mouse code is broken. It's just more apparent to people with "unsual" mouse set ups.

  23. #463
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    Greetings!
    Quote Originally Posted by komihag View Post
    It's just more apparent to people with "unsual" mouse set ups.
    PC gamers using gaming mouses, you mean?

  24. #464
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    All the CPL fix does is edit the registry adding a little negative acceleration to flatten out the positive acceleration that is hardcoded into windows. It will in no way add positive acceleration, and if you use Anin's excellent accelfix from razerblueprints you can get rid of it entirely, he hacked the win32.sys file to get rid of acceleration at the source and that doesn't help Bioshock either. Let us please stop looking for excuses and get this fixed so we can all safely buy Bioshock 2 w/o worrying about the mouse code.

  25. #465
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    After the mouse crap in Bioshock it was so nice to play all the Orange Box games and see what a mouse is supposed to feel like. Also Call of Duty 4, Timeshift, and new FEAR demos all have normal mouse function. Bioshock is the ONLY modern game with a up mouse feeling.
    Last edited by Tech John; 10-13-2007 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Bad language

  26. #466
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    2kJake - thanks for your interest in this problem. Can i just say though, that this thread should not exist. The easiest way to understand this problem is to go and play Portal, see how the the mouse interacts with the environment, and then realize that Bioshock is miles from that good.

    You said that this is a problem that is only being experienced by a minority? Is this really the case? Or is it just that some people don't care about it/ don't know the difference? Because it feels as though this is a problem that's built into the game, not just dependent upon setup. Can someone clear this up?

    Thanx

    Dharm

  27. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    If you are still having trouble, please answer as many of the following as possible (and applicable):

    What is your current mouse? (Razer Diamondback, MX518, etc..)
    Microsoft WheelMouse Optical

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What mouse driver software do you have installed, and what settings have you changed in these programs? (Logitech SetPoint, Razer Control Panel, etc..)
    Microsoft Intellipoint. Haven't changed anything other than modifying my Windows sensitivity to preference.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What polling rate is your mouse set to?
    I don't know how to find this information out by poking around in Windows, but I downloaded a program which gives me three numbers, see the image:

    http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5185/pollingqf0.png

    The Current and Average values change constantly as I move the mouse, the one that stays constant is Peak... which you can see is 9.70ms 103Hz

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What DPI is your mouse using?
    I have no idea. It must be default, I looked around my Mouse settings in Control Panel but I didn't see anything that looked like it would govern the DPI. Maybe it's because I picked the cheapest mouse Staples was offering?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    Are all Windows and Mouse Driver acceleration features disabled?
    Again, not sure only because my driver interface is very basic and it doesn't give me many options to choose from and customize. But, I did disable "Enhance Pointer Precision", and I can't imagine I would be using mouse acceleration. That's supposed to increase movement speed as you move the mouse in a given direction? Well my mouse doesn't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    Have you made any modifications to the BioShock .ini files?
    None.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What is the value of the In-Game Mouse Sensitivity?
    Lowest possible sensitivity: 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What frame rate are you averaging?
    ~60. It won't dip below 40 even when there are flames covering a scene in front of me, and while firing the machine gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What resolution are you normally running?
    1280x1024, all graphic settings maxed (DX9).

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Jake View Post
    What is the exact behavior you are seeing? (Lean toward being overly-detailed in your description, please.)
    It's not really complicated, it's just that the in-game mouse sensitivity is waaaay too exaggerated. Even on the lowest setting, it is much much faster than other games I play. Just as an example, VALVe developed the Half-Life franchise with a wonderful sensitivity range. The user can opt for a value between 1 to 20, with 0.1 increments. I play Counter-Strike at a sensitivity of 2.1 ... and BioShock's lowest setting seems more than twice as fast. It makes it very awkward to switch between games when the sensitivities are not closely matched.

    And THANK YOU for looking into this. I'm very much looking forward to this issue being patched!

  28. #468
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    You have to be kidding me...

    Did I read correctly? Was 2KJake implying that the mouse control issues are not global?

    The fact that you have managed to sell the game to a lot of people that don't know the difference is hardly relevant to a discussion of this problem.

    If you think you don't have a problem, you are on crack. My site has received several thousand hits since your game was released because of this article:

    http://truecarnage.com/quake-4-news-217.php

    Clearly, the implication is that some people are looking around on the web for a solution.

    That fix makes the game better but still intolerable, and frankly I didn't go back and play it after I tested it. It was closer but it still sucks when compared to.....anything else.

    If you people at 2K are thinking for a split second that this is acceptable in a pc game, you have no business making games for the pc. Go back to making games for consoles where your "expertise" can be applied appropriately.

  29. #469
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    what a joke.. you really think the people who can recognize this as a problem are the ones with windows accel enabled? FACT: we are the ones who are OCD about mouse control and are most certain to have it disabled everywhere, it's people that don't have accel disabled that cant recognize it as a problem because they live with it every day.

    I'm really irritated about 2k saying this is not a "global" problem and they can not replicate these issues, there are plenty of foolproof methods of testing to use in this thread.. maybe you guys need to hire on some real PC gamers.

    I've been checking this forum for months now looking for a patch so I can replay Bioshock properly, just to find this ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ blaming it on Vista.. give me a F***ing break...GoodBi-oshock.

  30. #470
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    How about just giving us DIRECTINPUT mouse and be done with it.

  31. #471
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    In the interest of getting this fixed, overlooking the passing of the buck to Vista and triple posting (gg, no edit) here are my specs

    Vista x64
    Razer Deathadder 1800dpi & 450dpi (both tested same result)
    500hz, newest razer driver set for 1:1 windows & hardware mouse (windows sens 10 in registry, max razer sens, no accel in razer driver or "smoothing" in windows)
    60+ fps
    sens 2 in bioshock

    mouse issue 1:
    when the mouse is moved as slowly as possible (im talking the speed of a snail, as slow as humanly possible.. ever so slightly nudging the mouse) a lot of the movement feels like it is canceled out or ignored by the game's input system. When moved fast back retracing the slow movement the crosshair will by far overshoot where I started.. indicating a huge amount of accel.

    mouse issue 2:
    when starting a new game or map the mouse is sluggish until the input system has "broken in" then it behaves as described above.

    Enemy territory Quake wars (good implementation of a software mouse)
    NO ACCEL

    Source Engine (HL2, EP1, EP2, Portal, TF2)
    NO ACCEL

    UT3 (same engine as bioshock, maybe you can get some pointers from them)
    NO ACCEL

    COH4
    NO ACCEL

    CRYSIS
    NO ACCEL

    Quake3
    NO ACCEL

    Bioshock
    ACCEL

    oh and don't bother testing for accel with a sensitivity less than 10" of mouse movement = 360 degree turn of the character.

  32. #472
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    In the interest of getting this fixed for Bioshock 2 (i lost faith for the first one, hopefully a future fix will be retroactive), here are my specs.

    Windows XP x64 and Vista x64
    Razer Deathadder - 450dpi - 1000hz
    Pointer Precision OFF - i tried w/ and w/o both the CPL reg fix or the Anin's excellent kernel fix, no dice in Bioshock
    8800GTX
    Q6660 @ 3.4 ghz
    4GB ddr2-1000
    Sony FW900
    my sensitivity in other games is 35cm/360 (something you cant even measure unless you get rid of acceleration)
    Windows sensitivity: 6/11 (this is 1:1 and is not negotiable)
    Bioshock ingame sens: 2 (1 is broken)

    I played at 1440x900, i like that resolution because my monitor can run it at 120hz and I can run vsync OFF to cut down on the terrible mouse feel as the high refresh rate makes the image super solid and you dont even see the tearing anymore.

    My average framerate was 100+, 80ish while fighting big daddies.

    Problem 1: Broken sensitivity scale

    The ingame scale is really bad, setting 2 is way too fast for low sens players making the game unplayable while setting 1 breaks the cursor making the game unplayable

    Problem 2: Acceleration

    This needs no explanation, its there and we cant get rid of it. A 180 degree turn should be the same distance on your mouse pad no matter how fast or slow you move it. 2k needs to try their games on real gaming mice and pads, we use our whole arm and not just the wrist, my pad is 44 inches wide.

    Problem 3: Sensitivity Tiers

    This is the one that really made me quit playing. The seem to be varying degrees of sensitivity that the game switches arbitrarily as you move your mouse. When you first start a level, it is super slow and actually feel linear. After a few seconds it goes crazy. Moving the mouse very slowly feels like the game is downsampling the input and you have to move it more than usually necessary for it to act. As a result of this I move the mouse faster to compensate and all of a sudden it switches to a much higher tier of sensitivity that is way higher than the initial one and makes me overshoot the target, almost as if there was a gap in the scale. When you slow down to correct your aim it reverses back to the super slow tier, and the cycle starts all over again. Dont test this with high dpi and high sens, for obvious reasons. It reminds me of playing a space sim like Freespace 2 with mouse control were you can set a deadzone in which the mouse response is downsampled until you cross a certain threshold. No other first person game behaves like this and it makes Bioshock unplayable.

    We need linear mouse control, go play and Source engine game for a couple of hours using low dpi and low sens and come back to Bioshock, you won't be able to aim at all. I'm done with this thread, to many good PC games coming out very soon to worry about Biosuck.

  33. #473
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    7

    Another Unsatisfied Player

    Hi, I'm another one who's highly bothered by this issue in Bioshock. I played the game for a couple of hours and thought it was unplayable so I will stop playing until (or if?) I have found a way to fix it.

    This quote sums up what I think after experimenting and reading the thread :

    Quote Originally Posted by komihag View Post
    "Please understand that this is not a global issue and mouse acceleration is not a problem for the majority of users."

    I firmly believe that this just means that most people don't recognize mouse acceleration. I know many people that run XP or OS X with mouse acc without even knowing it - even though, too me, the pointer feel horribly inaccurate and borderline unusable with it turned on.
    The issue may be better/worse depending on what mouse and DPI you have, but there's not a doubt in my mind that Bioshock's mouse code is broken. It's just more apparent to people with "unsual" mouse set ups.
    I am very unpleased that I bought a game that isn't playable, by PC gamers standards. Please be fast in identifying the problem and fixing the mouse code in a patch, if it is indeed what has to be done.

  34. #474
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    105
    Greetings!
    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS View Post
    I am very unpleased that I bought a game that isn't playable, by PC gamers standards.
    Have to wait for a patch that, hopefully, fixes it.
    If anyone needed a proof that Bioshock is a X360 port, there it is. 2K didnt even tested properly in a PC environment. And forced PC gamers into draconic DRM schemes.

  35. #475

    The same mouse problem

    I too have similar trouble with the issue. I have also entered a separate thread asking for a fix after having spent 50 buying extra RAM on the advice of a 2k support person in the UK. You do not seem too expect that 2K will provide a fix for this. If they do not I will never buy another piece of software from them even for an xbox.

  36. #476
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    19

    success?

    Well it's not perfect but the fix posted by 2k Jake seems to have sorted me out to some extent - though it's still a bit wierd to play.
    System:

    XP
    0.30000 mouse sensitivity is the only tweak in ini file (and 2k Jakes accelleration tweaks where suggested)
    125 poll rate
    2000dpi (Logitech G5)
    all windows mouse accel disabled using Logitech Setpoint software

    as I said, not perfect but I'm happily playing the game (has my playing style adapted to the problem?) and am at Hephaestus

    and it wasn't limited to Vista

  37. #477
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    21

    Best Workaround Yet

    I started experimenting again, and I think I've finally found a decent workaround (this is not a solution, as a solution would mean that regular users could do this without needing to edit INI files), one much better than binding setsensitivity to a key.

    Anyway, this still requires a key bind that you must hit every time you load a saved game, or change maps, but it doesn't require you to set outrageous sensitivity levels.

    In the [Default] section of your User.ini, just bind a key (in this case, F10) like so:
    Code:
    F10=set Engine.PlayerInput MouseAccelThreshold 0.0 | set Engine.PlayerInput MouseSmoothingMode 0
    When you load a game, hit the key, and this will eliminate acceleration. NOTE: it doesn't affect mouse acceleration on the cursor, which I don't know how to adjust.

    So basically, your steps to getting decent mouse control are:

    • Adjust mouse sensitivity through the menu so that the cursor moves at a comfortable speed for you. I don't know of any other way to adjust this, so this is your baseline.
    • Adjust your turning speed in game by globally replacing the "Speed=2500.0" number with a higher or lower (most likely lower) number. This is a trial and error process, and will require multiple restarts to get it right.
    • Use the bind I mentioned above and hit that key every time you start, before adjusting your sensitivity, because it slightly changes the sensitivity by disabling acceleration.



    How I figured this out:

    I had already tried putting the MouseAccelThreshold setting in the User.ini, which had no effect. But I found that when I used the "SetSensitivity" command, the game would actually add the following to the User.ini:

    [Engine.PlayerInput]
    bInvertMouse=False
    MouseSmoothingMode=1
    MouseSmoothingStrength=0.300000
    MouseSensitivity=3.000000
    MouseSamplingTime=0.008333
    MouseAccelThreshold=100.000000
    DoubleClickTime=0.250000

    Note the MouseSmoothingMode and MouseAccelThreshold values. Editing these does no good, as it appears the game doesn't actually read them, and if you use the SetSensitivity command, it will overwrite whatever values you've changed with these default values.

    But, if you change the settings in-game with the "set" command, it actually affects the input, though it won't write the changed settings to the User.ini file.

    So... 2K... Would you kindly have a programmer look into your code and change these default values to turn off acceleration, and/or make the values read properly from the INI file, before the final patch is relased?

    Also, fixing the sensitivity scale to something sane (can ANYBODY use a sensitivity value greater than 3 without whirling around like a ballerina on crack, even with a low-resolution mouse? And why did they continue this madness all the way up to 9?) would be much appreciated.

  38. #478
    TRGZ, thanks for the report that disabling mouse smoothing and mouse acceleration improved your experience.

    To be clear, the steps to remove acceleration and smoothing are as follows:

    1.) Open BOTH DefUser.ini and User.ini in NotePad. Editing User.ini alone is not enough as the values can be overwritten and ignored.

    On both XP and Vista, DefUser.ini is located at:
    C:\ProgramFiles\2KGames\BioShock\Builds\Release

    On Vista, User.ini is located at:
    C:\Users\YOUR_LOGIN_NAME\AppData\Roaming\BioShock

    On XP, User.ini is located in the same directory as DefUser.ini

    2.) Copy and paste the following lines into the bottom of both files

    [Engine.PlayerInput]
    MouseSmoothingMode=0
    MouseAccelThreshold=0.0

    3.) Save both files and launch the game

    This change is permanent and running a command after level load should not be necessary.
    Last edited by 2K Jake; 10-23-2007 at 11:06 AM.

  39. #479
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    19

    sensitivity scal

    to add to what Logy entered
    Also, fixing the sensitivity scale to something sane (can ANYBODY use a sensitivity value greater than 3 without whirling around like a ballerina on crack, even with a low-resolution mouse? And why did they continue this madness all the way up to 9?) would be much appreciated.
    I have to add that this is by far the most twitchy game I've played in years - to run at 2000dpi a sensitivity value of 0.3 or thereabouts is required and 3 for a 200dpi mouse (note the relation?). Now I'm not sure if there is a 'real' sensitivity scale for mouse input (in DirectInput perhaps?) but all the other games I've played at 2000dpi I've happily set at or around the bottom end of the sensitivity scale, whether it be 1 or 2, or an arbitrary decimal figure between 0 and 1, but this is the first that's needed 'hacking' - I appreciate that games are long in development and that hardware changes over the eons whilst some titles go through many changes but I'd say that launching a game with little appreciation of the variations in mice, and monitor proportions (ahem), shows immaturity on the part of the developers and also whoever interprets the beta-testing results. I was so convinced those guys on the podcast had actually developed a seperate PC interface after listening to them - well maybe that just applied to the pipegame and plasmid selectionscreens (though not the savegame one) - but the mouse input was just plain flawed

  40. #480
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    12

    Mine is fine.

    My mouse works fine on Bioshock so I don't know what your complaining about.

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