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Thread: *Top 10 WORST and Top 10 BEST of Civ 5*

  1. #1

    Exclamation *Top 10 WORST and Top 10 BEST of Civ 5*

    I have played every Civ since Civ 2 including the call to power series. I am defiantly enjoying Civ 5, but am very disappointed in the way much of the game has turned out. I almost never post to forums, but I really love Civ and hope that changes are made.

    After reading the forum and steam rolling through the game once (Prince difficulty and domination victory at start of the industrial era) this is the culmination of what desperately needs changed in the game and what was a great addition.

    First the WORST
    10. No Multiplayer animations

    9. Mini Map looks plain terrible.

    8. No Hot Seat (I believe Civ 4 started without hotseat and then added it)

    7. Steam DRM (having to download the game even if you buy a disk is completely unacceptable. I won't get into the DRM issue on this thread and I don't mind having to legit the copy the first time you play, but the disk should install.)

    6. Unit controls (no facing command, yet flanking can happen. Seriously? Even Sid M's PIRATES! has this option. Also naval units going long distance route poorly. This has been an issue since Civ 2. lol remember the back forth movement of civ 2 )

    5. Myriad of AI issues (mass garbage units and throw them at you)

    4. Occupied City happiness issues (Annexing every City is impossible, and creating puppet states that never convert over time is unrealistic. This addition is simply a way of making the game more accessible by taking control away from the user and giving you less to worry about. It as if the dev said "you didn't build this city so clearly you don't care about it.")

    3. Diplomacy (There is no diplomacy, you cant see how other people feel
    about you. That is a complete joke. Can't trade maps and can't trade techs I can live with but come on. Pacts of secrecy are worthless because you don't know how anyone feels so you can't pit them against each other. Research Pacts are also stupid. Everyone wants one with you because there is absolutely no downside.)

    2. System requirements (I have a sweet rig so I am not having many issues, but some people with acceptable rigs are. This is Civ 5 not Crysis. For the marginal graphic upgrade over Civ 4 the hardware cost is to high)

    1. Simplicity : "Accessibility" in gaming means let's mass market this and sell as many copies as possible PERIOD . They are dangerously close to alienating the main fan base. No religion / corporation I can live with, but as so many has said the game feels automatic. There are no bell's and whistle game play features that get you deeply involved. No UN Sanctions, no entangling alliances, less unit upgrades. Even little things like no interface options like skip opening, no real time clock, weaker civlopedia, no hard manual and even the exclusion of simple sound effects are all issues. I would like to see them add more customization too. The option to name Armies (1st Infantry and such, you will easily know what you have had since the start of the game) and the option to name landmarks (Civ Revolution did this and it was a nice touch for an otherwise bad game) would be sweet.

    *sorry for a branching #1*

    Top Ten BEST
    10. Nice terrain effects (mountains look like mountains)

    9. Clean interface

    8. Natural Wonders

    6. Art Deco Art style (looks simply beautiful)

    5. Other Victory Styles are more viable options (nothing was worst than going for a cultural victory only to have your best city nuked and stolen in Civ 4. Hitler agrees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUg3v...ext=1&index=19

    4. Naval and Air Units actually matter

    3. City States (Add a cool aspect to the game. If diplomacy existed at all this would be even more amazing.)

    2. Range Units (From Archers to Artillery it adds an amazing aspect to the game.)

    1. One unit per title. (This is almost indisputably awesome. It alone will keep me from ever playing Civ 4 again.) !!!!!!


    I am not trying to get anyone upset, there is a lot of good, but a lot more bad. Save the "go back to civ 4" and "OMG I paid $50 for this game so I need to twist every blatant negative into a positive to justify my purchase" and "patches will fix everything comments". We all know patches fix things, but nothing gets patched without these posts.

    Verdict: if you like Civ by all means buy this game (if you haven't already). Mods, patches, and DLC will likely help, but the vanilla is really weak to the brink at this point. There is little to dispute that fact. If you came from Rev you certainly are going to be wowed and impressed, but a seasoned civ vet is defiantly left wanting.

    If you respond to one aspect of my post (which is huge now I am sorry) please quote the aspect so people know what you are talking about.

    ***Also if anyone is looking for someone to play a casual long term multiplayer game and is committed to finishing it PLEASE let me know. I am always looking for a fun not ultra competitive paced game. ***

  2. #2
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    I agree about the minimap. I wasn't worried about this during preview screenshots because I figured it was a placeholder.

    It looks like it was made in mspaint! win7/vista mspaint, granted, but still.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nuh uh no way View Post
    I agree about the minimap. I wasn't worried about this during preview screenshots because I figured it was a placeholder.

    It looks like it was made in mspaint! win7/vista mspaint, granted, but still.
    Yeah I think you hit it spot on. I said to a buddy today that it looked like it was drawn with an iPhone app

  4. #4
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    hvala slicno misli...!

  5. #5
    Hvrska!!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    ne, ne; srbin.

  7. #7
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    agree on all points really, but the important issue is that firaxis does have good support, so eventually civ5 will jump past civ4, especially with its expansions, i have high hopes for this game.

    PS: love hitler's ranting about civ4

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus Lowa View Post
    agree on all points really, but the important issue is that firaxis does have good support, so eventually civ5 will jump past civ4, especially with its expansions, i have high hopes for this game.

    PS: love hitler's ranting about civ4
    I am optimistic too. Friaxis should be about to get it done. BTS Was a VERY good expansion

  9. #9

    Thumbs down

    Another thing I noticed:

    In all the videos they said "The map wouldn't be cluttered with roads on every tile because now roads don't produce trade." Now they decided ok lets clutter it with GIANT TRADE CENTERS that auto workers build everywhere. Tell me that it doesn't look 100 times more cluttered.

  10. #10
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    spaghetti roads lacked strategy

  11. #11
    finally a well-written, objective, no-whining feedback on the game.

    thanks for this input!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    7. Steam DRM (having to download the game even if you buy a disk is completely unacceptable. I won't get into the DRM issue on this thread and I don't mind having to legit the copy the first time you play, but the disk should install.
    The steam thing is your fault.. you can DL from disk but people not familiar with steam will inevitably mess this up. Its not hard to DL from disk but if you put in the activation code and let it go it will DL from net you need to select DL from Disk.

    and Simplicity thing I do agree with to a point.. Also you CAN name your units they did it in the 2 hour play threw.. I just dont care enough to figure how to.

    And religion was a good concept in Civ 4 but I think they messed it up. I'm happy that they took it out.

    Other then that your reasoning is sound

  13. #13
    Your points are valid

  14. #14
    one word - Mods!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kruelgor View Post
    one word - Mods!
    they cant fix the bugs lol

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    7. Steam DRM (having to download the game even if you buy a disk is completely unacceptable. I won't get into the DRM issue on this thread and I don't mind having to legit the copy the first time you play, but the disk should install.)

    6. Unit controls (no facing command, yet flanking can happen. Seriously? Even Sid M's PIRATES! has this option. Also naval units going long distance route poorly. This has been an issue since Civ 2. lol remember the back forth movement of civ 2 )

    I would like to see them add more customization too. The option to name Armies (1st Infantry and such, you will easily know what you have had since the start of the game) and the option to name landmarks (Civ Revolution did this and it was a nice touch for an otherwise bad game) would be sweet.
    Very good points, but I just wanted to comment on these.

    The Steam thing to people who understand about it won't be any difficulty, but will definitely stuff up some people who have never even heard of Steam. But there are some advantages about Steam (don't turn this into a steam thread)

    The flanking thing is a bit stupid. If you can flank an enemy, shouldn't you be able to choose which direction you unit faces? Say it was your frontline unit. If you got it flanked, then the enemy could easily come through your chokepoint (like a mountain range). You should be able to control directions (hopefully this will be in an early patch)

    Well, there are no more armies in the game, but I think you mean naming units.
    In the Ustream video Greg did rename one of his Pikemen (to Joe) but only after it had won a certain amount of victories, or something like that. I'll have to look at the video again to confirm it.

    But there is one thing I disagree on. From what I've seen and heard there are slightly more positive points about this game then negative. And after a patch (that will probably come before tomorrow's int. release) I'm sure the game will be excellent.

  17. #17
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    Maybe a good way to "fix" the issue of diplomacy is to give scouts the ability to "eavesdrop" or spy on city states or civs that they are near, during that brief moment in time you can get a "feel" of what that particular civilization thinks of other civs.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Saczva View Post
    spaghetti roads lacked strategy
    I agree with you. I am just saying they, in my opinion, created a bigger problem by replacing them with a trading post on every flat tile.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    I agree with you. I am just saying they, in my opinion, created a bigger problem by replacing them with a trading post on every flat tile.
    so... having lots of towns made more sense? trading posts are civ5's cottages.. though they don't ever grow. still makes as much sense as building farms everywhere... at some point the agriculture industry would collapse

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Davetopia View Post
    Maybe a good way to "fix" the issue of diplomacy is to give scouts the ability to "eavesdrop" or spy on city states or civs that they are near, during that brief moment in time you can get a "feel" of what that particular civilization thinks of other civs.
    That might be cool. I miss the old line relationship chart though. If you used the filters it was effective

  21. #21
    I am really hoping you are right abotu the patch

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Craigy1722 View Post
    The steam thing is your fault.. you can DL from disk but people not familiar with steam will inevitably mess this up. Its not hard to DL from disk but if you put in the activation code and let it go it will DL from net you need to select DL from Disk.

    and Simplicity thing I do agree with to a point.. Also you CAN name your units they did it in the 2 hour play threw.. I just dont care enough to figure how to.

    And religion was a good concept in Civ 4 but I think they messed it up. I'm happy that they took it out.

    Other then that your reasoning is sound

    I am very glad that they axed religion as well. It wasn't well done.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Troneas View Post
    finally a well-written, objective, no-whining feedback on the game.

    thanks for this input!
    Thanks I try. I hate the trolls, but also hate the "Civ 5 is clearly better just because it is new so go play Civ 4" crowd.

  24. #24
    Onondaga there is definitely no real time clock

  25. #25
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    press shift+TAB.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    Onondaga there is definitely no real time clock
    There is a clock mod in the mod section you can activate

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Onandoga View Post
    press shift+TAB.
    The steam overlay that often isn't coming up for people who have more average rigs doesn't really count.

  28. #28
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    then activate it from the mod screen.

  29. #29
    That isn't really the point anyway. Things like diplomacy being absent from the game are bigger issues.

  30. #30
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    your the one who pinpointed the clock...

    Diplomacy is more realistic instead of being easily manipulated and sometimes irrelevant numbers. Whats the problem?

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Onandoga View Post
    your the one who pinpointed the clock...

    Diplomacy is more realistic instead of being easily manipulated and sometimes irrelevant numbers. Whats the problem?
    You have no idea how anyone feels about you. You don't know what causes them to react positively or negative over time. I nearly brutally killed France in a game and had to call peace to regoup and 20 turns later they loved me, wanted to share research, and wanted a protection pact.

    Pacts of secrecy are worthless. You cant ruse anyone over because you have no idea how anyone feels toward one and other. It is guess and check.

    I believe that this all happens because there is no political history programed in. If you simply don't have enough military units even though you have never been aggressive and only traded with a neighbor they will attack you for no reason. They AI just reacts to its immediate needs regardless of what happened in past turns.

  32. #32
    Good points. Many have been made in various threads and attacked mercilessly. I'm glad you put them into a single post for clarity.

    I think I've come to realize that I've been playing civ more for rpg feel over the years. I want to grow and manage a civilization. Micro doesn't bother me. I'm increasingly less concerned with combat tactics. In that respect, without the items you list the experience of civ5 is very flat to me so far.

    Frankly I've been waiting for a decade for the game to go beyond the modern era. Surely civilizations that stand the test of time wouldn't collapse all at once in 2050. I may have to go play CTP2 to satisfy the need.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ctiberius View Post
    Good points. Many have been made in various threads and attacked mercilessly. I'm glad you put them into a single post for clarity.

    I think I've come to realize that I've been playing civ more for rpg feel over the years. I want to grow and manage a civilization. Micro doesn't bother me. I'm increasingly less concerned with combat tactics. In that respect, without the items you list the experience of civ5 is very flat to me so far.

    Frankly I've been waiting for a decade for the game to go beyond the modern era. Surely civilizations that stand the test of time wouldn't collapse all at once in 2050. I may have to go play CTP2 to satisfy the need.
    I play it a lot like a RPG as well. I do like the combat and tactics though. I would like to see it go a little further out into the future, but for my C2P took it way to far.

  34. #34
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    arguably from the AIs perspective it has no idea how you feel about it and let's face it human players would be ready to backstab anyone if the moment came along rather than saying "well we're like +10 so i cant hurt my wuvvly fwend "

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Saczva View Post
    arguably from the AIs perspective it has no idea how you feel about it and let's face it human players would be ready to backstab anyone if the moment came along rather than saying "well we're like +10 so i cant hurt my wuvvly fwend "
    Yeah true. I would much rather have the +- as some guide. As of right now it just relies on AI reacting to what is happening in the now. Probably unit proximity to boarders, number of units, amount of gold / resources, and how close you are to victory conditions are all they take into account. I feel like if you have been peaceful or aggressive to them should count for something. They don't seem to care about who you are allied with at all.

    I think the +- breakdown isn't there because nothing like that is being calculated. Its just one more watered down aspect.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    I have played every Civ since Civ 2 including the call to power series. I am defiantly enjoying Civ 5, but am very disappointed in the way much of the game has turned out. I almost never post to forums, but I really love Civ and hope that changes are made.

    After reading the forum and steam rolling through the game once (Prince difficulty and domination victory at start of the industrial era) this is the culmination of what desperately needs changed in the game and what was a great addition.

    First the WORST
    10. No Multiplayer animations

    9. Mini Map looks plain terrible.

    8. No Hot Seat (I believe Civ 4 started without hotseat and then added it)

    7. Steam DRM (having to download the game even if you buy a disk is completely unacceptable. I won't get into the DRM issue on this thread and I don't mind having to legit the copy the first time you play, but the disk should install.)

    6. Unit controls (no facing command, yet flanking can happen. Seriously? Even Sid M's PIRATES! has this option. Also naval units going long distance route poorly. This has been an issue since Civ 2. lol remember the back forth movement of civ 2 )

    5. Myriad of AI issues (mass garbage units and throw them at you)

    4. Occupied City happiness issues (Annexing every City is impossible, and creating puppet states that never convert over time is unrealistic. This addition is simply a way of making the game more accessible by taking control away from the user and giving you less to worry about. It as if the dev said "you didn't build this city so clearly you don't care about it.")

    3. Diplomacy (There is no diplomacy, you cant see how other people feel
    about you. That is a complete joke. Can't trade maps and can't trade techs I can live with but come on. Pacts of secrecy are worthless because you don't know how anyone feels so you can't pit them against each other. Research Pacts are also stupid. Everyone wants one with you because there is absolutely no downside.)

    2. System requirements (I have a sweet rig so I am not having many issues, but some people with acceptable rigs are. This is Civ 5 not Crysis. For the marginal graphic upgrade over Civ 4 the hardware cost is to high)

    1. Simplicity : "Accessibility" in gaming means let's mass market this and sell as many copies as possible PERIOD . They are dangerously close to alienating the main fan base. No religion / corporation I can live with, but as so many has said the game feels automatic. There are no bell's and whistle game play features that get you deeply involved. No UN Sanctions, no entangling alliances, less unit upgrades. Even little things like no interface options like skip opening, no real time clock, weaker civlopedia, no hard manual and even the exclusion of simple sound effects are all issues. I would like to see them add more customization too. The option to name Armies (1st Infantry and such, you will easily know what you have had since the start of the game) and the option to name landmarks (Civ Revolution did this and it was a nice touch for an otherwise bad game) would be sweet.
    1- Big complaint arround here, they said the animations were causing big problems with the engine apparently.

    2- Minimap is pretty bad, worst thing for me is no zoom features.

    3- No hot seat does suck, but they will be patching it in.

    4- You don't have to download the game if you have the disk, I installed directly from my DVD then patched through Steam.

    5- AI is much better then in Civ 4.

    6- I had over 50 citys at the end of my game and only 6 were built by me. I had 2 puppets. ( population was over 30 happiness )

    7- You can tell how they feel about you, not sure why people haven't figured this out yet. I pit lots of civs against eachother using pacts.

    8- System requirements are quite large, but nothing to crazy for this day and age.

    9- You can download the clock mod easily with Steam. No entangling alliances? Yes there is. Naming units and locations would be cool.

    10- Facing command would be very nice to have, Naval units aren't that much of a problem for me anyways.
    Last edited by Prexxus; 09-22-2010 at 12:11 PM.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Prexxus View Post
    1- Big complaint arround here, they said the animations were causing big problems with the engine apparently.

    2- Minimap is pretty bad, worst thing for me is no zoom features.

    3- No hot seat does suck, but they will be patching it in.

    4- You don't have to download the game if you have the disk, I installed directly from my DVD then patched through Steam.

    5- AI is much better then in Civ 4.

    6- I had over 50 citys at the end of my game and only 6 were built by me. I had 2 puppets. ( population was over 30 happiness )

    7- You can tell how they feel about you, not sure why people haven't figured this out yet. I pit lots of civs against eachother using pacts.

    8- System requirements are quite large, but nothing to crazy for this day and age.

    9- You can download the clock mod easily with Steam. No entangling alliances? Yes there is. Naming units and locations would be cool.

    10- Facing command would be very nice to have, Naval units aren't that much of a problem for me anyways.
    6 Difficulty?? And how low did it drop before you used all the civics to support your expansion

    7 How can you tell how they feel about you? There is no number chart. It is all in the now calcs. 1 turn you have lots of units and they like you. then in 1 turn lots die to an enemy civ. then the next turn you are a target. There is no political history.

    9. Still pretty heavy for a turn based board game. SC2 runs smoother and it defiantly should be more hardware intensive.

    Other than that I pretty much agree
    Last edited by CroatThunder; 09-22-2010 at 12:16 PM.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CroatThunder View Post
    6 Difficulty?? And how low did it drop before you used all the civics to support your expansion

    7 How can you tell how they feel about you? There is no number chart. It is all in the now calcs. 1 turn you have lots of units and they like you. then in 1 turn lots die to an enemy civ. then the next turn you are a target. There is no political history.

    9. Still pretty heavy for a turn based board game. SC2 runs smoother and it defiantly should be more hardware intensive.

    Other than that I pretty much agree
    I played on Prince, the lowest it ever got was -2 while I did a HUGE push across russia. Like 10+ cities in a very small ammount of time. Then I just created coloseums/circus in my older cities and courthouses asap in my new ones.

    Have you looked at the diplocatic overview window? It's all there. You can also see the hole history of your deals with specific leaders and when they happened.

    It's so easy to pit people against eachother. I just played a world domination game with France and made pacts with a bunch of people on the American continent while I was taking over europe. When I was ready to invade that area everything was so screwed up from fighting eachother I just steam rolled in and cleaned up.

    And you don't need an army for people to like you. I had basicly no war units until I had gunpowder just by using diplomacy to keep people busy with eachother.
    Last edited by Prexxus; 09-22-2010 at 12:34 PM.

  39. #39
    I agree with the OP.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prexxus View Post
    I played on Prince, the lowest it ever got was -2 while I did a HUGE push across russia. Like 10+ cities in a very small ammount of time. Then I just created coloseums/circus in my older cities and courthouses asap in my new ones.

    Have you looked at the diplocatic overview window? It's all there. You can also see the hole history of your deals with specific leaders and when they happened.

    It's so easy to pit people against eachother. I just played a world domination game with France and made pacts with a bunch of people on the American continent while I was taking over europe. When I was ready to invade that area everything was so screwed up from fighting eachother I just steam rolled in and cleaned up.

    And you don't need an army for people to like you. I had basicly no war units until I had gunpowder just by using diplomacy to keep people busy with eachother.
    Quoted for agreeability, truth and awesomeness.

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