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Thread: Can I install Civ 5 without Steam?

  1. #1
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    Can I install Civ 5 without Steam?

    I was really excited, but now I frustrated!

    I just bought Civilization 5. I didn't see anything on the box saying the CD would force me to install Steam and need Steam to play my game. I've used Steam in the past and strongly dislike it - I will not allow Steam on my computer again. For some reason, I didn't expect this problem since I was buying a game at the store rather than buying online.

    So my obvious question is.....

    Is there any way I can install Civ 5 on my computer without it installing Steam?

    (I did try uninstalling Steam after the install, but that disables Civ 5)

  2. #2
    Steam is unfortunately integrated with CIV 5. Meaning the only legal way to play civ V is via Steam.
    As far as I can tell your choices are :

    1. deal with steam to play your game.

    2. attempt to return it and get a refund(Whether or not this is actually a viable option really depends on where you bought it from.. what country you live in etc etc.)

    3. Write it off as a loss.

    4. Do something Illegal which I will not spell out nor endorse.

    In the future I would suggest researching games a bit more before buying them as these types of systems in new PC games are becoming more and more popular with publishers. It'll save you money in the long run and reward only the publishers who use systems your willing to submit to. As it is now they view your purchase of CIV V as positive reinforcement of their inclusion of steam..which is apparently different from your actual feelings of it. Research research research any new purchase.

  3. #3
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    Good point about the research. I always research a game
    (check it's review/score on Gamespot) to make sure it's decent before I buy it. But it didn't occur to me, since I specifically chose to buy the game on disc from a physcial store, that it might force me to use Steam. I didn't think to research that. But in the future, I will. Lesson learned. Thanks for the reply.

    Just curious, has anyone been able to get an answer to the question.....

    What happens to our Steam integrated games if Steam goes out of business or their service becomes unreliable ?????

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    There's a lot of Steam hating on the forums for some reason. I've not really understood why since it's a pretty good balance of a DRM solution for publishers, yet provides a lot of consumer friendly benefits. You could do far worse than Steam.

    Your question really can't be answered. Since Steam/Valve is not out of business, we cannot speculate as to what will happen. If you're going to not buy the game simply because of some theoretical unknown in the future, then that's obviously your choice. But I don't think it's a very good, or well thought out one. There are lot's of unknowns in life, and many are much more likely than your scenario that you should be concerned about.

  5. #5
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    On your original question. You can play in Steam's offline mode.

    However, you do need to log onto steam for the initial install, if you want the patches or if you change your computer hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjsabella View Post
    What happens to our Steam integrated games if Steam goes out of business or their service becomes unreliable ?????

    Then please do three things if steam goes out of business. Very simple.

    1.) Main menu, steam, back up game. Back up all of your games.
    2.) Under c:/windows programs (x86)/steam, copy everything but the steamapps folder, because you just backed them up.
    3.) Log out of steam.

    You can then treat steams as you would any cd/dvd game. You do not need to activate the back up. IF you need to reinstall steam, just copy everything back to the steam folder, click on the steam.exe in offline mode. It will complain that needs to update, just ignore it. Open steam load the back ups in off line mode, you will never need steam after your first install. If steam goes out of business then you do not need to worry because you will no longer have a first install. Steam has always said that they go out of business the above will work. Secondly, they have promised that even if they fail as a business the companies that they sold for would fully support the games using the steam client.

    If that happens then you are probably looking at a zombie invasion and you really need to stop playing video games.

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    Thumbs down Where is the I Hate Steam "community"?

    I'm sorry but the suggestion that the OP should have researched before he bought the game to find out that it requires Steam is simply offensive.

    So is the first response item: "write it off as a loss" - that is so rude, why would you even consider writing that?

    I also detest Steam, and even more I detest not at least having the option of not installing Steam when installing Civ 5.

    When I ran Civ 5 today Steam popped up and said "Updating Civ 5" - now, I can't run the game at all, it crashes EVERY time whether in DX9 or DX10/11 mode, I tried deleting the cache, that didn't help.

    I had grudgingly accepted [for now] that I'll have to live w/Steam if I want to play Civ 5. However, I'm very upset that Steam installed an update WITHOUT ASKING ME FOR CONFIRMATIN FIRST! WTF? Seriously, WTF? What if I don't WANT to install the update???

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I'm sorry but the suggestion that the OP should have researched before he bought the game to find out that it requires Steam is simply offensive.
    How is it offensive to suggest that people should research a program before they buy it? I thought it was consumer rule #1.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    So is the first response item: "write it off as a loss" - that is so rude, why would you even consider writing that?
    Because its a viable option. I know it would be painful to do so for many people but if someone doesn't like steam they have to make the choice since 2k made it apparent from the get go there would be no "steam free" option. Some people may choose to write it off rather then deal with steam.
    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I also detest Steam, and even more I detest not at least having the option of not installing Steam when installing Civ 5.

    When I ran Civ 5 today Steam popped up and said "Updating Civ 5" - now, I can't run the game at all, it crashes EVERY time whether in DX9 or DX10/11 mode, I tried deleting the cache, that didn't help.

    I had grudgingly accepted [for now] that I'll have to live w/Steam if I want to play Civ 5. However, I'm very upset that Steam installed an update WITHOUT ASKING ME FOR CONFIRMATIN FIRST! WTF? Seriously, WTF? What if I don't WANT to install the update???
    For the record I can't stand steam.. but unlike the OP i decided NOT to buy Civ V because it required steam. Many others did as well. So its neither radical nor offensive to suggest that people research what games require steam and choose not to purchase said games if they do not like to submit to steam. It's sad I know but we have come to a point in computer gaming in which you must not only research the merits of a particular game it self but also what DRM methods they require BEFORE you purchase it. Cause to TBH they don't really care if you like it or not once they have sold you the copy. The only way they would consider steam a problem is if it actually hurt sales.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I had grudgingly accepted [for now] that I'll have to live w/Steam if I want to play Civ 5. However, I'm very upset that Steam installed an update WITHOUT ASKING ME FOR CONFIRMATIN FIRST! WTF? Seriously, WTF? What if I don't WANT to install the update???
    You do realize you dont have to update anything on Steam right? Right click on selected game>Properties>Updates>Do Not Keep game Up-to Date.

    Far to many people are hating on Steam simply because they dont know how to use or understand Steam.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servoinvicem View Post
    How is it offensive to suggest that people should research a program before they buy it? I thought it was consumer rule #1.
    Some things should be researched. With a game like Civ 5 some people know they want to buy it as soon as it comes out because of past experience with Civ games. It could be that simply knowing the game is Civ 5 is enough to know that you want it.

    This is the first time that I've bought a "retail" game at a store and had Steam forced on me to use it.

    If I go to a restaurant that looks decent on the outside, menu looks OK (comparable to finding out Civ 5 is out and it's a "Civilization" series game) I don't ask the waiter: "If I buy this hamburger, will it come stuffed with poop?" - because I don't expect any likelihood of that happening. Just like I wouldn't have expected a retail copy of a game like Civ to come with Steam.

    EDIT: I have found the setting to disable auto-update. I had basically been trying to ignore Steam, so as to not be irritated. It annoys me when it says something like "Please close Civ 5 before exiting Steam". I don't want to disable updates, I want to be AKSED and I want to easily be able to UNDO any updates/changes Steam makes if I don't like the results.

  11. #11
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    There alot of people who go out and look at a game and go oh wow I use to play civ #. Mybe this one better and they buy it. They played the other Civ games and loved them. So they do not do research. This happens with alot of Stuff. Food, games and other Items.

    I can see where steam could be a problem to some Locations it could give problems to people with Limited and No Access to the Internet. There a few areas in my Town that dont have access to the internet unless you call dialup Internet and that is a Long distance call.

    The price of Living in a Small Town - the traffic and smog.

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    I found out today the game in the box I thought I paid for, I never paid for. I don't own the game for the $50 I paid. I own the right to use the Steam service that lets me play the game. Distribution over the internet changes all the rules in terms of ownership. Now, think about that, and tell me if it pisses you off.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    Some things should be researched. With a game like Civ 5 some people know they want to buy it as soon as it comes out because of past experience with Civ games. It could be that simply knowing the game is Civ 5 is enough to know that you want it.
    Yes but as I previously stated.. one must not only pay attention to the particular merits of a game but also the DRM method. As long as some publishers think the more hardcore their drm is the more money they will make they will continue to increase the crazy hoops they require end users to jump through. The future of pc gamers involves either researching said hoops to make sure you're willing and able to jump through them first or being a pirate. If you're unwilling to do either of those i suggest finding a new hobby.. whittling can be fun
    Last edited by Servoinvicem; 11-09-2010 at 04:41 PM.

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    Personally... I have a horible internet connection. But I bought Civ 5 because Civ 4 was such an awesome game. If the next or any subsequent versions of Civilization involve this crap system, I will not be buying it. How is that for hurting sales?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubal93 View Post
    Personally... I have a horible internet connection. But I bought Civ 5 because Civ 4 was such an awesome game. If the next or any subsequent versions of Civilization involve this crap system, I will not be buying it. How is that for hurting sales?
    It doesn't appear to hurt sales because it is outweighed by the savings due to prevented piracy - so it appears.

    Xbox has become my preference now. Its much better than I thought. I never go online; I own my game; I can sell my game; I can trade in my game; I can buy a game that's used for a reduced price; when the business that created it dies, I can still play my game. My personal computer is unmolested from the point of installation on.

  16. #16
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    It's crap

    I'm replying to this after reading all the posts, I'm 40 y.o. I don't play on line games and as others I bought retail Civ 5 I did some research and it is not said in any game boxes,That Steam is needed to play, update and especially play a single player campaign the fact that there are file sites that mod builders and map builders have used for years. To caulk it up to piracy or drm is POOP I don't want to have my dsl connection used for auto updates I don't want an UNWANTED program running on my system,Nor do I want to pay more for a bundled pack and I also Don't shop online for the same reasons.

    I feel that this is a crap system[steam] I feel that it's a money making ploy and I feel that needs to be an option about steam. I'm not buying any DOW2s and I put Civ 5 in a box. This isn't some exclusivity gaming crap that you do online . It's an excuse to gouge
    the consumer... And I feel that those backing this Steam crap may just work for them.
    It's real simple I don't want the product in the game I purchase for 50-60 dollars at [stupid] best buy and deal with that pack of [uninformed people] only to come home and can't play my [game] cause of this service ... Oh and it's not my system I just paid 1200 for it and everythings updated and this crap crashes\ blocks my older games
    peace and 2k do something about this DISSATISFIED CUSTOMER
    Last edited by slowtarget; 08-27-2011 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Inappropriate language (See forum rules)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    I'm replying to this after reading all the posts, I'm 40 y.o. I don't play on line games and as others I bought retail Civ 5 I did some research and it is not said in any game boxes,That Steam is needed to play,
    Sadly, you're pretty obviously wrong here. It's noted on the box that a Steam account is needed to play. I know a lot of people who have little experience with gaming don't know what Steam is, and so just skip over the statement. However, it's still there. Furthermore, if you did any research at all, you'd have seen quite a few statements that Civ V requires Steam. Like, say:

    Civ5 Official Steamworks FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    To caulk it up to piracy or drm is POOP
    That's only a small portion of it and if you had done research you'd have seen it mentioned, several times, that the primary bonus studios get for using Steam is drastic cost reductions for manufacturing/distribution and really drastic increases in the portion of retail sales which goes back to them (eg: When you buy a game from Best Buy, the studio gets maybe 10% of the retail price, when you buy from Steam, the studio gets 40-50% of the retail price).

    Steam's main anti-piracy abilities are not from DRM, but from making it easy to buy games.

    [QUOTE=Mael;1450844]I don't want to have my dsl connection used for auto updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    I don't want an UNWANTED program running on my system
    Why not?

    I've never seen anyone argue this point who actually understood process models in Windows and knew about all the other processes running on their system. In short: they trot out this argument just to make an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    It's an excuse to gouge the consumer...
    How are you being gouged? The price for Civ 5 was the same as any other AAA game on the market. It's the same price as Civ IV was at release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    And I feel that those backing this Steam crap may just work for them.
    Ah yes, and then cognitive dissonance kicks in. Anyone who comes to a different conclusion than me must be part of the conspiracy to try and deceive me. It's not possible that they have fully researched the topic and decided to see things a different way based on their higher degree of information, greater understanding of the subject matter, different cultural expectations or alternative point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    and can't play my [removed] cause of this service ... Oh and it's not my system I just paid 1200 for it and everythings updated and this crap crashes\ blocks my older games
    Wait.

    Is that the reason for all this? Your game is crashing and you're blaming Steam? Why not actually present the real problem (the crashing) and see if we can help you?

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    If they have "drastic cost reductions" then why do they need to bilk so much extra $$$ out of us with "DLC" - they left SOOO much out that they could have included in the box, or at least tell us: "we couldn't finish some of the content in time and we didn't want to keep delaying the release so you will be able to download some additional nationalities later as a free update"...

    So upsetting I couldn't play as the Dutch when I bought the game - "the last four versions didn't come with ***** last time" doesn't mean they shouldn't have put it in the new version. It's lacking in so many other ways it's just insulting that they had to leave stuff out so that they could SELL it to us later.

    I didn't see it came with Steam when I bought it either and I was really pissed off that I couldn't at least CHOOSE to run without steam. It was ridiculous that a STORE BOUGHT game had to have Steam to run; it's simply not reasonable to blame somebody for not noticing the small print on the box where it says steam required - just like it wouldn't be reasonable to blame somebody for not noticing on their box of cereal in the fine print "this cereal contains 33% poop" then you'd blame them when they complain that it tastes like crap?

  19. #19
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    Seems to me there's alot of naiive people out there ..(40 yr olds included), steam is a software program.. it's not malware and it's not a virus either, basically it's there to protect the game from being abused by pirates or rather those who download games to play without paying for it, for all the people that say they hate steam you need to ask yourself why you really hate it? If you buy Civ 5 from an retail shop even without reading the back or have and still miss the fact that steam is required in order to play it.. steam installs with the game , it's only interference is it asks you for the games cd key that's it.. you also have the option to disable auto updates from steam, for the majority of people updates improve their gaming experience ,only a very small minority this creates problems due to their computers drivers for video cards and sound cards being way out of date... over all steam doesn't bother you so why hate it? best bit about it is you can play your game without listening to the dvd drive whirring in back ground or your disk being cooked inside the drive..keeping your copy on disk as good as new... so those who complain are those who have a very poor understanding of what steam actually is or don't have an adequate system to handle the game to play on and just use steam as an over all excuse.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    If they have "drastic cost reductions" then why do they need to bilk so much extra $$$ out of us with "DLC" -
    One has nothing to do with the other. With most businesses --and art/entertainment businesses in particular-- you sell your product for the amount that an acceptable amount of people are willing to pay. If you find a way to make it cheaper, that doesn't automatically mean that you drop the price. The price was never based on your costs in the first place. The fact that 2K/Firaxis found a way to increase their profits without changing the price of the game, should make you happy. I don't really care if some contract transport company lost a source of revenue. That's a shrinking market already. I want my game companies to stay in business and making games I like.

    And no one "bilked" you out of money. The DLC is optional. If you felt it was overpriced or felt it was their attempt to bilk you of cash.... then don't buy it. Seriously.

    Unfortunately, it seems all too common that people feel they are entitled to the DLC. So, instead of exercising fiscal responsibility or mental restraint, they just buy it and then complain that someone is stealing money from them because its just unthinkable that they would not buy the DLC. Presumably, the knowledge that someone else out there had it and was having fun with it would scar their very soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    they left SOOO much out that they could have included in the box, or at least tell us: "we couldn't finish some of the content in time and we didn't want to keep delaying the release so you will be able to download some additional nationalities later as a free update"...
    Wow... I find that level of entitlement depressing. The game included everything they said it would include (er... descriptions of the multiplayer experience are questionable, though). Nothing was left unfinished. However, it seems that you feel that it was their obligation to deliver more than what they said you were buying... because you wanted it. And when they do give you something for free (which its clear they originally meant to charge for) you're still bitter because you felt that your every desire wasn't served.

    Wow. I wish I lived a life where that was an expectation I could have.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    So upsetting I couldn't play as the Dutch when I bought the game - "the last four versions didn't come with ***** last time" doesn't mean they shouldn't have put it in the new version. It's lacking in so many other ways it's just insulting that they had to leave stuff out so that they could SELL it to us later.
    Then you shouldn't have purchased it. There was no mystery as to what was in the box. It was all very clear and well known. If you felt that it wasn't worth the price... why did you buy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I didn't see it came with Steam when I bought it either and I was really pissed off that I couldn't at least CHOOSE to run without steam.
    So, you didn't read the requirements or do any research on the game... and now you're upset because someone didn't go out of their way to make sure that you knew what you were buying? What more could anyone do?

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    It was ridiculous that a STORE BOUGHT game had to have Steam to run;
    Why? Do you want to make it illegal for companies to sell their games in stores? Civ V requires Steam. Do you want it to be illegal for them to sell a boxed version? Or did you want to insist that they willingly make more work and less profit for themselves... because you demand it?

    Are you also posting messages on the Starcraft forums that it's ridiculous that the STORE BOUGHT versions of Starcraft II had to have Battle.net to run?

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    it's simply not reasonable to blame somebody for not noticing the small print on the box where it says steam required
    Sorry, but yes it is. The system requirements are stated plainly so that the consumer knows what will be required in order for them to use the software. It is standardized by the industry, well-known to reasonably intelligent consumers, and contained on all (substantive) presentations of the game (game box, website, reviews, etc). If the consumer ignores that... well, there's nothing more the studio can do. What do you want? A studio rep standing in every single store, serving you a lemonade and fanning you while they explain all the requirements?

    I'm sorry you bought a game you clearly didn't want. However, the sense of entitlement ("The company should change the game and give me free stuff because I want stuff and don't like it when I don't get what I want") from this argument is just depressing. I hate to be all "get off my lawn", but its probably the thing that annoys me most about my generation and the next couple after it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris4 View Post
    Seems to me there's alot of naiive people out there ..(40 yr olds included), steam is a software program.. it's not malware and it's not a virus either, basically it's there to protect the game from being abused by pirates or rather those who download games to play without paying for it,
    Let's be clear on this issue: Steam's intent is not to stop piracy. Valve is really clear on this. They've never tried to make it impossible to pirate the games. That's just stupid. Anyone in the industry knows its impossible. Or they should know.

    The purpose of Steam is to make it easy to sell games. If I decide I want a new game, I can fire up Steam and be downloading a new game in under a minute. That is how they fight piracy. They make it easier to buy a game than it is to pirate the game. People who are going to pirate games fall into two categories: the people who do it because they're cheap/have no morals/like the thrill/think its cool and the people who find it easier than looking for the game in-stock at a local store. You can't do anything about the first group, but you can do something about the second group. And the second group is way bigger than the first.

    Once you understand this, you'll start to understand why Steam behaves the way it does. All of the protections? They are primarily there to appease the game studios and ensure them that people aren't using Steam as a vehicle for piracy. Who is stopping Steam from allowing the re-selling of games? Game studios. Who is stopping Steam from running release-day sales? Game studios.

    It's the studios that worry about piracy. Steam (aka: Valve) doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris4 View Post
    you also have the option to disable auto updates from steam,
    Er... This isn't what you think it is and it doesn't work the way you expect it to. If Steam is online, your game will be required to be up-to-date every time you launch it.

  22. #22
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    Slow Target you can be here forever defending the reasons for civ 5 being on steam, soon as steam is mentioned in an help topic it becomes a magnet for the steam haters and thus starts the huge debates. There only is one message for those that hate steam and that's like it or lump it, theres nothing anyone can do about it, steam is there both to protect the game and also provide the person who bought the game additional services if they want it, such as DLC which incase some people didn't know is Downloaded Content, when games first come out, retail shops order in copies of the game as soon as possible, later usually within few months time, there is more copies of the games ordered that comes with (DLC) and it's usually well advertised, i've seen stores sell both copies one with DLC and one without, with not much difference in price.. Steam gives everyone an opportunity to buy DLC doesn't force you to buy it either so I think infuture Critofur you should intake all the facts before using it as an excuse , Pjsabella got their answer to the original question and hasn't much replied since so i guess their happy with the answer , which is can play the game with steam or not at all and like most folk they install the game and play the game and don't get much hastle from steam otherwise.

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    You like Steam? You don't mind that the retail box of the game comes with Steam? Ok, but at least let ME CHOOSE whether or not I want to install Steam with my game that I bought at the store because I don't want the Steam version.

    You continue to insist on blaming me for "not reading the fine print" on the box? Well, I don't think I needed to because A) My system is way more powerful than should be reasonably required for this type of game and B) I like the Civ series well enough that I want Civ 5 whether or not it has some serious disappointments.

    I'd never heard of Steam being forced on people buying a game off the shelf before and frankly I was shocked when I found out. Again, as long as I'm given the CHOICE when I install the game whether or not I want Steam too, I would be fine with it.

    "Entitled"?!? They're not GIVING me the game, I bought it. Damn straight I think they could include Dutch in the box - this is the FIFTH version of the game for crying out loud - yes of course I'm going to be irritated at intentional regression/intentional omission of content from a $60!!! game to sell it to me later.

    If they want to add additional map/theme packs later and charge for them I am not universally against that - I just don't think it's cool to leave out some of the nationalities that they did.

    A lot of people were disappointed at their favorite nationality to play being left out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowtarget View Post
    ...So, you didn't read the requirements or do any research on the game... and now you're upset because someone didn't go out of their way to make sure that you knew what you were buying? What more could anyone do?...
    Like I said earlier, I don't check my cereal box each time either to make sure they didn't start putting excrement in it. (I do check for other things such as total sugar content per serving..., I just don't have the time read the entire label every time) That's how I feel about Steam being slipped into my retail box with no choice other than "don't buy it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowtarget View Post
    Let's be clear on this issue: Steam's intent is not to stop piracy. Valve is really clear on this. They've never tried to make it impossible to pirate the games. That's just stupid. Anyone in the industry knows its impossible.
    What i said wasn't wrong, what you said wasn't wrong either but first and foremost steam is an Drm,

    [Digital rights management (DRM) is a term for access control technologies that are used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to limit the use of digital content and devices. The term is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content that is not desired or intended by the content provider. The term does not generally refer to other forms of copy protection, which can be circumvented without modifying the file or device, such as serial numbers or keyfiles. It can also refer to restrictions associated with specific instances of digital works or devices. ] quoted from wikipedia.

    Companies like 2k games chose to use steam as a way to make it more difficult for those wishing to play the game without buying it no where did i mention that it was impossible either.

    Also those that have issues with steam or don't like steam can still choose to disable auto updates and can play the game in offline mode or block internet access to steam via firewalls etc for as long as they like or forever if they wish. You keep trying to politically correct every person on the forum , but you need to understand everyone has different views on how things are and your not always 100% correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris4 View Post
    Slow Target you can be here forever defending the reasons for civ 5 being on steam,
    Agreed. My goal, however, is not to defend Steam. Steam doesn't need my defense. And, quite frankly, Valve doesn't even know I exist.

    My goal is to try to help people understand. My main fault is consistently failing to remember that many people don't want to understand. I fully admit that I have a strong bias toward logical arguments and often undervalue or even discard arguments based primarily on emotion. However, that's not something that's likely to change. Making decisions and arguments based on emotion might feel good, but it rarely does anything more than make you feel good in the short term. I prefer trying to actually fix problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    You like Steam? You don't mind that the retail box of the game comes with Steam?
    Steam is fine. It's not perfect, but its way better than DVD distribution which locked out indie developers and strangles the PC gaming market. Since I like PC gaming... yes, I guess I like Steam. However, it's more accurate to say that I dislike DVD distribution. I dislike that it gives more money to unethical and annoying stores like Best Buy, Walmart and Gamestop than the developers who actually made the game.

    Do I mind that the retail box comes with Steam? Er... yes. In that I mind that the boxed version was made available at all. I would have much preferred to have the game distributed solely via digital distribution. However, I'm also realistic and recognize that many people aren't ready to switch over yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    Ok, but at least let ME CHOOSE whether or not I want to install Steam with my game
    Why do you think that should be your choice?

    I want a Linux version of Civ V. At least let ME CHOOSE whether I want to play the game on Windows or Linux. Sound like a silly argument? It is. You don't get to dictate which operating systems a game is made for. You don't get to dictate which 3D rendering API a game uses. You don't get to choose the game engine, or the sound engine, or the video codecs or the resource storage format. Why would you think that you have a right to force the developers to use the distribution mechanism which suits your desires?

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    You continue to insist on blaming me for "not reading the fine print" on the box? Well, I don't think I needed to because A) My system is way more powerful than should be reasonably required for this type of game and B) I like the Civ series well enough that I want Civ 5 whether or not it has some serious disappointments.
    I totally understand. I didn't read the requirements either (I bought through Steam, not via box, but the requirements are listed there, too. Obviously, the Steam requirement is implied). However, I understood what that meant. The developers did everything in their power to tell me what I needed to know. I ignored them. If I find out later that I ignored something important, that means it's my fault.

    And yes, I've been on the same side as you before. In college, I scrounged all of my leftover money after 6 hours of class and 10 hours of work for two weeks and bought my very first PC game. I had just built my first computer, leaving me with a whole $75 left in my bank account (I did have a job). Imagine how I felt when I found out that I could only play that game for an hour or so until it would crash? Pretty annoyed. But I wasn't annoyed at the studio that made the game. I was pissed at myself, because I bought a game without looking at the requirements.

    The name of that game: Civilization II.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I'd never heard of Steam being forced on people buying a game off the shelf
    Then you aren't paying much attention to PC gaming. One of the more influential games of the last decade was the Orange Box, notable because it was sold as a box on the shelves, but included four (I think...) Steam games and caused the first mass influx of Steam users. Granted, those were all Valve games. Since then, Dawn Of War II, Empire: Total War, Fallout: New Vegas, Modern Warfare 2, and the newest addition, Deus Ex : Human Revolution, have all been released as Steam-only games, being sold both via Steam and as Steam-bound boxes on store shelves. There are more, but those are the major ones that are universally known. Of them, MW2 and DX:HR are easily going to out-sell Civ V. These aren't small games. These are huge titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    this is the FIFTH version of the game for crying out loud - yes of course I'm going to be irritated at intentional regression/intentional omission of content from a $60!!! game to sell it to me later.
    It's silly to expect that every iteration of the franchise will include everything in the previous version. It would require historical blindness. Remember diplomat units? Removed. Remember separate Attack/Defense numbers? Removed. Remember the Sioux? Or the Celts? Remember Armor ratings? Remember Schisms? Remember Corruption? Remember Armies? There are loads of things that were removed.... before Civ V. If you expected that everything from Civ IV would be in Civ V, then you obviously haven't been playing Civ for very long.

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    I just don't think it's cool to leave out some of the nationalities that they did.

    A lot of people were disappointed at their favorite nationality to play being left out.
    I'm sorry your favorite Civ didn't get included. Neither did mine. However, I'm an adult and I recognized that they would never be able to include everyone's favorite Civs. Despite having lots of time to come to terms with it, I still haven't been able to get used to the lack of maturity displayed over the selection of Civs. I just can't seem to get the image of a petulant child demanding a cookie from their parent:

    Firaxis: "I'm sorry. We had to pick eighteen and tried to pick the best ones we could."
    Fans: "No. Mine. I want. Gimme."

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    Like I said earlier, I don't check my cereal box each time either to make sure they didn't start putting excrement in it.
    And I ignored that the first time, since it was such a poor analogy. It's more like buying batteries for your remote control without looking to see what the remote takes. If you buy AA's and find out that it takes AAA's, do you blame the company for not having a representative at the store to tell you which size of battery to buy?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris4 View Post
    What i said wasn't wrong, what you said wasn't wrong either but first and foremost steam is an Drm,
    On the contrary: First and foremost, Steam is a distribution system. That was its initial design, and you can still see signs of that design all over the place.

    The History of Steam

    Steam's DRM came as a necessary add-on once Valve started selling games through Steam.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    Some things should be researched. With a game like Civ 5 some people know they want to buy it as soon as it comes out because of past experience with Civ games. It could be that simply knowing the game is Civ 5 is enough to know that you want it.

    This is the first time that I've bought a "retail" game at a store and had Steam forced on me to use it.

    If I go to a restaurant that looks decent on the outside, menu looks OK (comparable to finding out Civ 5 is out and it's a "Civilization" series game) I don't ask the waiter: "If I buy this hamburger, will it come stuffed with poop?" - because I don't expect any likelihood of that happening. Just like I wouldn't have expected a retail copy of a game like Civ to come with Steam.

    EDIT: I have found the setting to disable auto-update. I had basically been trying to ignore Steam, so as to not be irritated. It annoys me when it says something like "Please close Civ 5 before exiting Steam". I don't want to disable updates, I want to be AKSED and I want to easily be able to UNDO any updates/changes Steam makes if I don't like the results.
    I bought all the Civilization computer games based on my enjoyment of Civilization and Civilization II. However, Civilization: Call to Power, which was put out by Activision, was not up to the standard of the games developed by Sid Meier or Firaxis. Having to go through Steam was a real surprise to me. However, I have not had the negative experience that some others obviously have had.

    I have experienced minor issues, but I have been able to work around those. Still the last Civ 5 I bought (I bought four - I own three as I have three computers - the fourth is on the computer I gave my sister) is working differently than the second one I bought. The second one I bought worked equally on and offline. This one requires some special handling to get it to work off line. The first one is installed on a desktop that is always connected to the Internet and the third one is on a MAC (Apple).
    Last edited by Civiler; 09-04-2011 at 10:01 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servoinvicem View Post
    For the record I can't stand steam.. but unlike the OP i decided NOT to buy Civ V because it required steam. Many others did as well. So its neither radical nor offensive to suggest that people research what games require steam and choose not to purchase said games if they do not like to submit to steam. It's sad I know but we have come to a point in computer gaming in which you must not only research the merits of a particular game it self but also what DRM methods they require BEFORE you purchase it. Cause to TBH they don't really care if you like it or not once they have sold you the copy. The only way they would consider steam a problem is if it actually hurt sales.
    I'm new to the forum. Would you please tell me what "DRM" and "THB" mean.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Civiler; 09-04-2011 at 02:19 PM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael View Post
    I'm replying to this after reading all the posts, I'm 40 y.o. I don't play on line games and as others I bought retail Civ 5 I did some research and it is not said in any game boxes,That Steam is needed to play, update and especially play a single player campaign the fact that there are file sites that mod builders and map builders have used for years. To caulk it up to piracy or drm is POOP I don't want to have my dsl connection used for auto updates I don't want an UNWANTED program running on my system,Nor do I want to pay more for a bundled pack and I also Don't shop online for the same reasons.

    I feel that this is a crap system[steam] I feel that it's a money making ploy and I feel that needs to be an option about steam. I'm not buying any DOW2s and I put Civ 5 in a box. This isn't some exclusivity gaming crap that you do online . It's an excuse to gouge
    the consumer... And I feel that those backing this Steam crap may just work for them.
    It's real simple I don't want the product in the game I purchase for 50-60 dollars at [stupid] best buy and deal with that pack of [uninformed people] only to come home and can't play my [game] cause of this service ... Oh and it's not my system I just paid 1200 for it and everythings updated and this crap crashes\ blocks my older games
    peace and 2k do something about this DISSATISFIED CUSTOMER
    If you look at the bottom of the back of the box it list the minimum systems requirements. Then it lists the recommended system requirements. Finally it lists other requirements. Here it says, "Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Libraries and Microsoft Direct X."

    To be honest, I didn't notice that when I first bought the game. I just compared the system requirement to my system and new that it should work. So far it does.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civiler View Post
    I'm new to the forum. Would you please tell me what "DRM" and "THB" mean.

    Thank you.
    DRM is Digital Rights Management, which in basic terms is used to lump pretty much any form of anti piracy effort into. Ultimately, it will allow the copyright holders of digital intellectual property to control what happens to that intellectual property once an end user has purchased its usage

    By THB I assume you mean from the quoted text "to TBH"? TBH is short for "to be honest" and the "to" before it is likely a typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowtarget View Post
    I just can't seem to get the image of a petulant child demanding a cookie from their parent:

    Firaxis: "I'm sorry. We had to pick eighteen and tried to pick the best ones we could."
    Fans: "No. Mine. I want. Gimme."
    Maybe Veruca Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?

    Perhaps we should ask headkase to come in and take over the discussion. I've heard rumours that he's much better at explaining things than you slowtarget?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strudo76 View Post
    DRM is Digital Rights Management, which in basic terms is used to lump pretty much any form of anti piracy effort into. Ultimately, it will allow the copyright holders of digital intellectual property to control what happens to that intellectual property once an end user has purchased its usage

    By THB I assume you mean from the quoted text "to TBH"? TBH is short for "to be honest" and the "to" before it is likely a typo
    Thank you.

  34. #34

    Very disappointed civ player

    Like Mael, I don't play online games. In fact I don't play a huge range of games. I have, however, played all the civilization games from the original onwards. When I pay money for a game, I expect to be able to get it home, put it my pc and be up and running in a few minutes. I have been sitting here for for 40 minutes and this piece of ☺☺☺☺e has now downloded 21% of the game! Form what I have read here, this is just the start. This game is half way to the recycling bin. If this is the future, you can stick it. May as well buy a PS3/Xbox.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_dandy View Post
    May as well buy a PS3/Xbox.
    Yeah, cos PS3 is way better!

    Contains bad language!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_dandy View Post
    I have been sitting here for for 40 minutes and this piece of ☺☺☺☺e has now downloded 21% of the game!
    First, at what is looking to be a 3.5h download, your speeds aren't that bad for mid-low level consumer-grade internet connections in the US. However, it sounds like you bought the game on DVD, so there should be no need for you to download more than the patches (which shouldn't take 40 minutes if you have even 5MB broadband). Follow the instructions for doing a DVD install.

  37. #37
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    moderator feedback of installation issues

    in each of your posts slowtarget you do nothing but push blame back on your customers, in a rather rude and offensive manner in fact. is this policy or just your interpretation of helping people? clearly the requirement for Steam installation is frustrating beyond belief, and cannot be opted out, so installations are outright failing. It's this type of treatment that motivates people to get copies elsewhere, yo-ho-ho! or otherwise share their frustration like here, in hopes of getting some help from a moderator or somebody connected to the industry. although your response is not required nor requested, no doubt you have some nugget of copy/paste to share. for me, it will fall on deaf ears, I have wasted enough time already with this escapade.

  38. #38
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    Just a few reminders to everyone: Moderators are not employed by 2K, we're unpaid volunteers who really don't know much more about the inner-workings of the company than you do; discussing piracy is frowned upon on the forums; as is picking fights with other members.

  39. #39
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    As the oldest guy here ( 75 in April ) this has been some read. I had lots of time because Civ 5 will not start as of this afternoon. It was working just fine last night.

    So I made a call for help --- so far NO JOY. Tomorrow I think I will load Civ 4 and enjoy NOT having to mess with steam.

    It looks like if there is a Civ 6 and it comes with Steam a lot of us will give it a pass.

    CW3SF

  40. #40
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    hmmmmmm

    So what your trying to tell us is that the makers are making more money by not selling us the discs to the game we want. In essence we are paying what we would in a store(discs included) for just the content(broken up for pro$it) so they can make more money ?? So we have to run steam every time we play the game?? I have tried to play offline mode but it still says "you must have a version of steam running to play!"

    Riddle me how this is just piracy protection and not a scheme to sell you somthing else. When i buy a game i Buy the game when i want to not whenever i have a internet connection. I hardly can afford internet and some months go without. The guy was right it is easier to buy an xbox/ps3.

    They seem to assume the average joe is a piracy nut, and they mean to "pinch the indian till it screams" while they can. I am not a pirate but games like this makes me thing i better become one if i am to enjoy any further games. I wont buy online cause you are not really buying the program more like renting it(or that is how it seems)!

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