UB: Dun. Replaces Walls. +4 defense (base), not 5. +0.5 defense for every hill and/or forest in the vicinity (3 tile radius). Includes the tile of the city. Cost 130, not 100.
The Celts now have the Dun to replace the Walls, not Castle. It has +4 defense without any hills (less than the Walls) but if placed near hills or forests you will gain some defense. This encourages the Celts to stay near hills and forests, and not to cut forests down. Of course, this can place them under threat from the Iroquois or Incas.
edit: remember to check the first page for all the info on the civs, and to see if you can suggest some yourself
A few other observations; the Cataphract is arguably the first knight (and definitely the foundation of European Knights) I'd suggest that it replaces the Knight instead of the Horseman. It could be researched earlier as its bonus, maybe.
Holy Rome's UA probably should apply to city states in some form, since it was a collection of tiny German kingdoms. "Imperial Authority"-Every Allied city state increases unit production by +5%. Or double bonuses from every city state, but influence deteriorates +25% faster for every allied CS (as managing hundreds of otherwise independent states was quite a chore). As for a UU, we can't use Landsknechts, despite them being the primary unit in the Empire. However, we COULD use Swiss Guards, since they are a direct offshoot of the Landsknechts. They can only be acquired by being allied with Militaristic States, but have a significantly increased strength and no maintenance (being mercenaries, after all).
UA: Imperial Authority. The HRE was a collection of tiny German city-states (and a few Italian ones). Every Allied city state increases unit production by +5%. Or double bonuses from every city state, but influence deteriorates +25% faster for every allied CS (as managing hundreds of otherwise independent states was quite a chore).
UU: Swiss Guards. They were an offshoot of the Landsknechts. They can only be acquired by being allied with a Militaristic C-S. No cost. Strength 14, not 10. No maintenance.
The Holy Roman Empire currently has two different UAs, so we need your help to decide which is worthy of their power.
The Swiss Guards are a UU which will force you to ally with C-S, but with your UA you should be. For this setback, there is no maintenance cost and loads of extra strength. As the HRE you will still be able to build the Pikeman though, as the Swiss Guards will be your elite units within your armies.
A suggestion for the Norse longship; it can go 2 tiles away from coast. Slightly stronger up close than normal Triremes, but normal ranged capability and speed.
Austria needs some love, so how about Maria Theresa as leader for Austria. Vienna (or Wien, if you want to be culturally accurate) for the capital.
UA-"Patron of the Arts"-Every Cultural building has one extra artist slot and produces one extra culture. All artists produce an extra culture, as well. The Hapsburg dynasty was renown for their contributions to art, namely in the field of music. Austria has been responsible for some of the greatest composers in history; Haydn, Schubert, Strauss, and especially Mozart. Another UA, one to reflect their great cultural diversity (being home to Germans, Croatians, Hungarians, etc); "Cultural Patchwork"-Cities that border other countries can build their UB and or UU. Or as a variant, captured cities can still build their former uniques, instead of border towns.
UU- Jaeger Infantry-replaces Riflemen. Historically, jaeger infantry played a support role in combat as a recon unit or as skirmishers. They were dangerously effective in both roles. Contributes double the flanking bonus to nearby units and +1 sight. Normal strength, cost, and speed.
UB- Concert Hall- replaces Opera House. +6 Culture, not +4 (does not include UA bonus). This reflects their affinity for music. Anyone else is free to contribute here as they please.
Last edited by mwallyn; 01-30-2011 at 10:40 PM.
Looking good guys! It's a good idea to think up the stats of all the civs talked about, even the ones we feel are unlikely to make it. So who's still missing?
Leader: Pacal II
UA: "Mesoamerican Scholars" Jungle tiles produce +1 Science. 10% of science output is added to culture every turn. The Mayans were incredible scientists, devising their own system of writing, making far more accurate astronomical observations (such as determining the length of a year far more precisely than anyone else), and were brilliant mathematicians. However, their scientific study was tied intrinsically to their culture, often determining their daily lives.
UU: Holkan-replaces Spearmen. Starts with a rough terrain combat promotion (since most of the Yucatan peninsula was either jungle or hills).
UB: Ball Court-Replaces Colosseum. Has a Scientist OR an Artist slot. +1 culture. Has normal happiness boost and production/maintenance costs.
The Inuit are already up there.
Leader (undecided): Tagak Curley
Nanook (possibly mythical)
UA: They can gain food from tundra tiles, and maybe extra food in coastal cities too.
UU: Qamutik "Snow sledge", or maybe a unit like their archers like seen in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koryak_armor.jpeg
The archer unit would have a bonus fighting in tundra, and the qamutik would move fast over the tundra.
We simply need to pick a suitable leader for them.
I played a hebrew mod awhile back.
UA,*forgot name*, +25% gp generation in all cities
UB, Synagogue (replaces temple) same everything except +10% research
UU, Israeli Commando (replaces paratroopers) starts with rough terrain1 & open terrain 1
As for some other information, I'd like to come up with a few pieces of Hittie. As for the UU, most definitely a replacement for the chariot. This is from wiki:
Now this isn't the first time I've read about their famed chariots. They supposedly stood up to the powerful Egyptians and Assyrians of their times with them.The Hittites were renowned charioteers. They developed a new chariot design that had lighter wheels, with four spokes rather than eight, and which held three warriors instead of two. It could hold 3 warriors as the wheel was placed in the middle of the chariot and not at the back as in the Egyptian chariots. Hittite prosperity largely depended on their control of trade routes and natural resources, specifically metals.
As for the leader, most likely one from the New Hittite Kingdom. These were when them were more written accounts of the Bible, and Egyptians. Tudhaliya I is an option as he being the ruler who established the New Hittite Kingdom, but he is not as famed as Suppiluliuma I, who under a unified empire stretched it further against the Egyptians towards the Euphrates. As a final pick, I'd say Suppiluliuma I.
How about Carthage?
Leader- Queen Elissa (better known as Dido, who was the founder of Carthage)
UA- "Merchant Navy"- In peace time, all naval units contribute +0.5 happiness. In wartime, all naval units gain +2 ranged strength. (Carthage's navy was the lifeblood of their nation, and their superiority and stability rested almost entirely on it. It allowed them to trade with peoples far and wide and their navy routinely crushed Rome)
UU- Numidian Mercenary, replaces Horsemen; No maintenance costs and +1 movement. Slightly more expensive to build, though.
UB- Cothon, replaces Harbor; +40% ship construction bonus, not +25%. Naval units stationed in cities with Cothons heal at double the normal rate. +1 gold for sea trade routes.
By the way, to whomever came up with the "Royal Connections" name for Austria's UA; freaking brilliant. Personally, I prefer that one the most. Should the captured cities be able to build Austrian uniques as well as their homeland's, though? I don't see why not, but the language in the UA is kind of vague on that.
For the the Imperial Rathaus, it replaces the courthouse. Its cheaper and provides +1 happiness on top of negating the unhappiness from occupation. I don't know why I forgot that when I posted for the Empire. Looking back at their UA's, the double bonus from CS's seems too much like Siam's UA, so I'd lean towards the unit production bonus to keep it distinct.
I posted a Carthage a while back and it was lost in obscurity
I only have a problem with Numidian Mercenary on a historical level. They were a light cavalry, designed for hit and runs. They wore less armour so they could move faster, so they should technically cost less. Also, because Carthage was so heavily reliant on mercenaries used for military force, they were going bankrupt, which suggest higher maintenance cost, not zero. It's a cool idea though.
Like the Netherlands and their UA, you DON'T want to go to war. Not all nations need to be warmongerers. Personally I'd like some more peaceable nations out there. But given the changes in Civ V to the combat system, I can see where you're coming from.
Dido has been in Civilization before (Civ II), but of course that's the same game that made Eleanor Roosevelt president of America. At any rate, I figured she would be a fresh choice for a leader, since Hannibal has been used 3 times before.
Thanks for noticing the slip on the Royal Connections UA.Or as a variant, captured cities can still build their former uniques, instead of border towns.
Thank you for all your work you have done for this thread.
This is a list of things that have nothing about them.
Also, there are a few that I would wish to bring to your attention. These are mainly very bland (compared to some of the other unique ideas here).
UU: Impi. Requires Iron. Cost 55, not 50. Replaces Spearman. Movement 3, not 2. Strength 8, not 7.
UB: Ikhanda. Replaces Barracks. Cost 100, not 80. Maintenance 0, not 1.
UU: Commando. Replaces Paratroopers. Cost 370, not 350. Strength 48, not 40. Can only paradrop 4 tiles away (when in friendly territory), not 5. Starts with Rough Terrain 1 & Open Terrain 1.
-This is a very late UU, all the way in the center of the Modern Era. I feel that this is probably too late for any sort of UU to be useful. What are your suggestions for a replacement?
UU: Highlanders. Replaces Swordsmen. +10% to military units when fighting in rough territory (on top of the UA)
And here's the UA for reference:
30%+ to military units in rough terrain. +2 culture per forest tile within your territory.
UU: Winged Hussar. Replaces Lancer. Cost 250, not 220. Strength 26, not 22.
Thank you to everyone for their contributions. We wouldn't have our list without you all.
Also note that some of the civs not mentioned on the above list still have poorly shaped uniques. Also, some civs have multiple UAs or UBs. You must decide! (whether I should make a poll for it or just leave it to you guys to speak up)
The Imperial UA should be +5% unit production, since double bonuses for increased favor loss is a bit too much like Siam. The second bonus would be hard to implement, as what would you define as "traditionally" Catholic? France, though Catholic, has an enormous contingent of Muslims. Germany is primarily Protestant, and has been for most of its history. Though technically Protestant, Catholicism is far and away the largest denomination of any religion here in the US, so you could argue that America is traditionally Catholic. Besides, religion has been removed from Civ V, so I'd doubt the devs would implement such an overtly religious UA when they went to great lengths to remove it.
Austria should take Royal Connections for its UA. The culture one, though reflective of their support of the arts, just feels a little too bland. As for Cultural Patchwork, its functionally the same as Royal Connections, but I feel like the latter is implemented way better and makes a lot more sense realistically and in terms of the game's design. If this were Civ IV, then Patchwork would work wonderfully given the way culture was set up.
The Dutch probably should go for Traders of the Sea. A New Antwerp is exactly like Educated Elite. Part of America's UA was like a Social Policy in Tradition (Monarchy, where you got a 50% discount on tile purchase), but they completely removed that power post patch. In other words, it sounds like they want to keep everyone's ability unique and attainable to no one else.
How about this UA for the Norse; "Atlantic Raiders"-All land units get a +10% combat bonus when attacking from the sea instead of a combat penalty.
The Polish Winged Hussar could negate any flanking bonuses against them as well as being slightly stronger. Historically, they were heavily armored and their primary tactic was to charge right in and smash through infantry formations. Plus, their horses were bred to be able to carry a great deal of weight over long distances and still be able to make a charge after all of that.
Zulu Impi were one of the most mobile fighting forces in the world, and definitely in Africa. I don't have a problem giving them extra speed. As for another ability, give it a +25% combat bonus against units slower than itself. The Ikhanda could reduce city maintenance costs by 15%. As for a UA, "African Terror"-Every Zulu units in enemy territory causes -1 happiness in their (the enemy's) country. Zulus were one of the most terrifying military forces in all of Africa, and no one wanted to cross them, especially not Shaka Zulu. Some people call him "The Black Napoleon" because of his brilliant (but fiercely brutal) tactical innovations.
Both are reasonable choices, but if you like you can think up another one.
@ mwallyn - thanks for all that, especially the Zulu UA, although I've scaled it back a bit. I can imagine people sending 20+ units into an enemy's territory in MP and causing tons of rebels everywhere.
@ Hawk - I'm fairly sure the current Polynesian UU is the Musket Warrior, but I have no idea on how it could be unique. Although it could probably replace the musketman...
edit: I just noticed that the Polynesian UI has no name!
Any ideas?UI: (Unnamed - something to do with fishing). Additional improvement, can be created by Work Boats on coast tiles. +1 food. +1 gold.
This could be a good use for the Outrigger if that is not going to be their unique unit.
Lets try Ethiopia out...
Leader- Menelik II
Capital- Addis Ababa
UA- "Spiritual Diversity"- Golden Ages come 25% faster, but are 10% shorter. (Ethiopia is home to major populations of all three Abrahamic faiths)
UU- Oromo Warrior, replaces Musketman; 12 health, not 10 and earns 5 GA points per kill, normal cost, strength, and movement
UB- Stele, replaces Monument, contributes 3 GA points per turn (does not count as happiness), normal cost
Next up, the Huns!
Leader- Attila the Hun
UA- "The Horde"- Double resource yield from Cattle, Horses, Deer, and Sheep; Mounted units do not take city attack penalty if there are no defensive structures in the target city.
UU- Horse Archer, replaces Horseman; Has a ranged attack, 8 strength, 10 ranged, normal movement (The Huns were famed for their mounted archery)
UU- Nomad, replaces Settler; Can defend itself (albeit poorly), faster than normal settlers as well.
Last edited by mwallyn; 02-06-2011 at 07:07 PM.
Oh yeah, and regarding the Israeli Commando, being a late game units means its significantly more powerful than its normal counterpart. After all, look at the American B-17. Not only does it have a city attack bonus, but it also takes only 50% damage, a promotion that would normally require a fair bit of experience to earn.
For the Polynesian UI, why not call the improvement itself a "Fishery". Just an idea...
Some ideas for the Highlander unit...+5 HP than normal, +1 culture/turn when in forests or hills in friendly territory, fights at full strength even when wounded.
I had an interesting idea for a UA, but I'm not sure who would get it. "Assimilation"- No initial UA, but gains other nation's UA if you control their capital. This can stack with as many capitals as you control.
Leader- Mursili I
UA- "The First Iron-workers" Half tech cost for Iron Working, +20% production bonus to any unit that uses iron (The Hittites were one of the first civilizations in history to start working in iron, despite being in the middle of the Bronze Age).
UU- 3-man Chariot, replaces Chariot. Slower than normal, but significantly stronger up close and slightly stronger at range. CAN melee attack as well as ranged attack. (The 3 man chariot had an archer onboard, but the main weapon of choise was a long spear)
UU- ? (At a loss for this one. I can't find a lot of info on it. Any ideas?)
Last edited by mwallyn; 02-09-2011 at 09:13 AM.
We have already discussed the Inuit unique unit and unique building. Unique building is the most obvious of all. The Igloo is the most iconic Inuit structure. It can go in place of the Monument, which means you would be able to build it from the start of the game, and would give you what the Monument gives you, plus a slight bonus. This would be especially effective since you can build it straight away.
The unique unit could either be the Qamutik (snow sledge) which would replace the chariot. It would have more movement over tundra tiles, and would have archers on top.
Alternatively an Inuit hunter unit replacing the standard archer would also be appropriate. This unit would have some bonus when on tundra tiles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koryak_armor.jpeg
The updated Inuit!
Leader (undecided): Tagak Curley
Nanook (possibly mythical)
UA: (Unnamed). +1 food from every tundra or snow tile within 3 tiles of the city. The tile does not have to be worked, and one tile can be shared by one city and both will still get the bonus.
UU: Qamutik "Snow sledge". Replaces Chariot. Cost 70, not 60. Strength 3. Ranged strength 6. Range 2. Movement 4. On tundra and snow the qamutik has 5 movement, 4 strength and 7 ranged strength.
UU: Maybe a unit like their archers like seen in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koryak_armor.jpeg
Replaces Archer. Cost 80, not 70. Strength 4. Ranged strength 6. Range 2. Movement 2. On tundra and snow the (UU) has 6 strength and 8 ranged strength.
UB: Igloo. Replaces Monument. Maintenance 1. Culture 2. All cities within 20 (?) tiles of ice terrain gain +1 gold.
Starting Bias: Tundra.
Strategy: As you can see the Inuit are very heavily based towards tundra and snow. They fight best there and have more food and gold there. Once they leave the ice, they'll have to rely on numbers and tactics...
So, what should the UA and second UU be called? For the UU I was thinking Koryak Archer.
I do wonder as to why the Oromo Warrior (Ethiopia) has so many bonuses, and yet you say there should be no disadvantages? For the moment I have simply placed a +10 Production disadvantage, but I do wonder why.
Last edited by Black Gate of Mordor; 02-09-2011 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Qamutik and Koryak Archer info
I'm fairly sure that this is a complete list.
Last edited by Black Gate of Mordor; 02-10-2011 at 10:34 PM.
There is now a 'Forgotten Civs!' post below the Asia, Europe and Oceania post. This is where any suggested civs will go to. Some civs (such as Morocco and Tibet) that do not have anything will be moved here at the end of this month.
Post the civs that you suggest should be added to this game!
'Arctic Blast'? That sounds more like a ride you go on at a water park.
Tibet could have Gendun Drup, the 1st Dalai Lama as their leader...unless someone has a better idea?
This is about civs that have things with no numbers amongst other things. Most of these is undecided stuff or uniques that have names but no abilities.
Leader- Tagak Curley, Abe Okpik or Nanook (possibly mythical)
UU- Qamutik or Koryak Archer (they're both much the same thing)
MayaUU: Qamutik "Snow sledge". Replaces Chariot. Cost 70, not 60. Strength 3. Ranged strength 6. Range 2. Movement 4. On tundra and snow the qamutik has 5 movement, 4 strength and 7 ranged strength.
UU: Koryak Archer. Replaces Archer. Cost 80, not 70. Strength 4. Ranged strength 6. Range 2. Movement 2. On tundra and snow the (UU) has 6 strength and 8 ranged strength.
UB: Ball Court- Science or artist specialist?
UA- Assyrian Fear or Primeval War Machine
UB- Resettlement Center or Ekal Marsharti
HittitesUA: Assyrian Fear. The Assyrians were extremely cruel to their captured enemies. Because of this, the mention of their very name put fear into people's hearts. As they had the largest army of that era, they just surrounded their enemies and forced them to surrender. +20% bonus against cities and units. -1 Happiness to every conquered city (puppeted and annexed) until Courthouse built and at least 20 turns have passed. Courthouse costs 700 gold, not 600.
UA: Primeval War Machine. Influence with military city-states does not decrease while at war. Iron and horse deposits are doubled.
UB: Resettlement Center: Replaces Courthouse. Production 100, not 200. Maintenance 6, not 5. Like the courthouse, a Resettlement Center eliminates the unhappiness generated by occupied cities.
UB: Ekal Masharti: Replaces Barracks. Production 80. Maintenance 1. The Ekal Masharti provides +15 XP for all new land units. In addition, it provides a +25% production of land units while in the ancient era. This bonus decreases by 5% with the passage of each era, except when you reach the Modern Era and Future Era, where the bonus stays at 5%.
UU- 3-Man Chariot (can we come up for a better name for this?)
UU: Vulture Warrior- no info
PolynesiaUA: (Unnamed). Units receive +20% defensive bonus for jungle and forest tiles in friendly territory.
UU: Musket Warrior- no info
UA- Traders of the Sea or United East Indian Company?
UB/UI- Paltrok Mill or Dike?
PortugalUA: Traders of the Sea. 20% Gold increase in all cities, 15% increase along trade routes.
UA: United East Indian Company - Netherlands Open Borders trade provides +5 happiness, while other Civs Open Borders give +20 culture for each city to the Netherlands. Civs at war with the Netherlands receive a -10% gold income.
UB: Paltrok Mill. Replaces Windmill. Cost 220, not 180. +1 production for every farm on open terrain that is being worked, not +15% production. City cannot be on a hill. Maintenance 1, not 2. 2 Engineer specialists.
UI: Dike. Coastal tiles only.
UA: Golden Explorers- which version of it?
UA: Golden Explorers. +2 gold for every tile explored. Does not include tiles you see at the start. Is not placed into effect until you settle your first city. Loses effect with research of Steam Power.
Or Trade Routes produce more gold, the further away they are from the capital; Astronomy increases production of workers and settlers by 33%. Stacks with the liberty social policy.
Last edited by Black Gate of Mordor; 02-13-2011 at 11:24 PM.