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Thread: Immortal and Diety Help Please

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Immortal and Diety Help Please

    fired up Civ 5 a couple of weeks ago and played on Marathon, huge, 12 players, continents on Emperor as Shoshone. The whole game was kind of a joke. I was double everyones score and if someone got within double, I just killed them. In fact the game could have been over shortly after 1200 AD when I was able to cross the sea.

    Now, I decided to go up to Immortal and have played a few games of the above set up. I'm getting destroyed in every aspect of the game by every civ. If I have 100 in tech they have 120-140, If I have 20 city points they have 50, and so on. I thought the sole problem might just have been that I wasn't getting my Library(ies) fast enough. So I prioritized that, but still the computer was on average an era ahead of me. I even thought the problem might be that I wasn't teching to universities fast enough. So I tried that, build unis and put specialists in them, but still by the time I got to Public School I was still behind.

    The opening seems to be the most important, if I can squeeze out the Great Library before turn 120 then I'm only slightly behind in tech. But without GL, I literally have no chance. My openings have been Scout, Granary, Worker (Buy worker with 700 gold and steal one from a nearby civ) Library or Great Library depending on spawn location. After that I go for 2 more cities but by then I'm already way behind in tech and now those new cities don't have a library and my cost to science goes up.

    The last game that I quit, I was just getting long swordsman and a computer player chose an Ideological Tennant! AFAIK you can only get that when you have industrialization and have built 3 factories in your cities. That's got to be a solid 100-150 turns ahead, all the while I'm maximizing science and population.


    I just don't get it, what am I doing wrong? I'm stumped. This is coming from a long time strategy gamer who always strives to play the hardest difficulty.

  2. #2
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    I have no idea how much the pace influences the game, never played anything other than standard.

    That said, you really should just not care about score and early wonders at all on higher difficulties. Very few early wonders will be worth the things you´re giving up in order to build them, and the amount of bonuses the AI has makes it really easy for it to have many cities with many people and many units.

    The AI cannot be objective about its goals or efficient in the use of its armies, and that´s how you beat it. You need a plan to end the game and you need the units and yields to get there, that´s all.

    If you want a diplomatic victory, make money and have high level spies for coups. If you want a scientific victory, choose between generating lots of great scientists through Rationalism+faith, buying part out through Freedom or rushing parts out through Tradition+Order+faith. If you want a cultural victory keep Guilds full, beeline late tourism buildings, go Aesthetics and save faith for Musicians.

    Don´t finish the National College after the proportional to turn 90-100 (2 cities for tradition, 3-4 for liberty), use trade routes to leech science from neighbors, develop the tech tree unevenly so that you can make the most use of spies/bonuses, grow your cities as much as happiness allows.

    This kind of difference (industrialization vs medieval) is not usual, but depending on the scenario it can be totally understandable. You might have focused on the cultural side of the tree but made little use of Universities and/or bonuses from known civs when teching the lower part. The civ in question might be extremely science oriented like Babylon or Korea and full of Friends to make research agreements with. You could have been caught up in a war that delays your National College while the other civ was at peace the whole time.

    To offset that, spy on this civ. The larger the difference, the faster spies tend to work and get levels. Just don´t spy the capital of a science civ, because they will surely protect it. Go for tall secondary cities with lots of food and little production if possible. This will reduce the chance the AI will have found it worth it to build a constabulary there.

    hope this helps
    If you believe humans are more than ants in any way; if you believe humans can do anything unnatural; if you believe evolution can be stopped or directed towards a "worse" path by human medicine - you´re religious, regardless of what you think about gods.

  3. #3
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    Feb 2011
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    Thanks Bruno,

    I took your advice and was able to beat Immortal through a diplomatic Victory with Greece. It was actually very easy, I concentrated on making gold and fluctuated between 150-300 a turn (Marathon) I went down Tradition and Patronage and was able to control all 24 (well 22, mongols killed 2) City States for an easy first UN council victory. The only real challenge was upgrading my army while spending all the money on City States being that I had an itchy Iroquois on my border. But I ended up just paying the other civs to go to war with him to keep him busy.

    On another note, is it me or do the Iroquois dominate almost every game??

  4. #4
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    Sep 2011
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    116
    Terracotta army dominates the early game on deity, by the time they have 8-12 units, they get another 4-5 free, depending on mix (sometimes more). Pocatello loves building it, easy snowball. Last time he did though, I crushed 20+ units, using just 5. garbage AI is garbage. It doesn't suffer any penalties from negative income either, because hax. :\

  5. #5
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    Yes, Iroquois are a dominant Civ because of Longhouses. Iroquois Production > all other AI production > your production.

    Having them on your continent is a mixed blessing. You can keep them friendly (join all their wars on their side), and they will keep all other opponents at bay, but they will be tough to overcome in the endgame.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn1ring View Post
    Thanks Bruno,

    I took your advice and was able to beat Immortal through a diplomatic Victory with Greece. It was actually very easy, I concentrated on making gold and fluctuated between 150-300 a turn (Marathon) I went down Tradition and Patronage and was able to control all 24 (well 22, mongols killed 2) City States for an easy first UN council victory. The only real challenge was upgrading my army while spending all the money on City States being that I had an itchy Iroquois on my border. But I ended up just paying the other civs to go to war with him to keep him busy.

    On another note, is it me or do the Iroquois dominate almost every game??

    You´re welcome.

    Regarding units when playing diplomacy - unless you´re playing Honor+Autocracy with Gunboat Diplomacy (and often even still), best thing is to gift old units. At regular speed, that´s a base 5 influence, which coupled with Patronage means 10 turns of extra friendship/alliance for non-hostile City States.

    Unit gift can help wonders in increasing your odds at performing a successful coups, when the City-State is close enough for you to be able to move units there instead of teleporting them through the Gift function, you can increase your odds in 10-15% in about 5 turns, which (again at regular) is often enough for you to be able to coup in the turns right before an Election Rigging for greater effect.

    Freedom can raise that to a whooping 20 influence for each unit with Arsenals of Democracy, which also gives a bonus to unit production.

    Effectively, that´s you turning production into influence.

    If you´re playing Commerce, that´s even safer in the middle of the game when production might be more valuable, since you can simply buy an entire army of Landsknechts in a single turn whenever you actually need units.

    Regarding the Iraquois - yes, they can be very annoying, a lot like Greece itself. Both their AIs have a lethal combination of being expansionist and diplomacy oriented; if you have the means, you should always kill it with fire before it lays eggs. When they´re a world away, it´s really graet to manipulate them into being warmongers like Shu said.
    If you believe humans are more than ants in any way; if you believe humans can do anything unnatural; if you believe evolution can be stopped or directed towards a "worse" path by human medicine - you´re religious, regardless of what you think about gods.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2011
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    Flawless Strategy is still at 1,9% world wide. It isn't that easy, whatever they say, at all to beat the game at Deity level. The AI is indeed not too smart but the brute force method is quite something to catch up with or it wouldn't be just 1,9%.
    If you want to play a game on a huge map Marathon, which is much harder on Deity level, there is much to say for choosing Islands instead of continents. You have some more strat choices there and the idea behind it is that the AI can't connect with each other in a very short time, though on the long run it will be faster.
    It will give you and edge with certain choices and at least the time to collect the ancient ruins as you explore the map.
    You must be prepared, to replay several times the map to make sure if it is possible. In case you think you have a good map, you must be prepared to drop it if it doesn't work for some reason.

    To begin, you go to advanced setup and choose your opponents. You don't want Polynesia if you play an Islands map for instance but the same is for continents, don't overplay your hand.
    Put off espionage, it is even worse as research agreement, not because they can steal faster from you, as you can from them. The real problem is that they will able to steal from each other meanwhile and use it as an extra research agreement for free. The espionage system is quite broken for this setting (Deity, Marathon, huge map) beside you have to find a high research City to make it work reasonable, though the AI will likely boost science brute force with many City's. You can expect the AI to take a lead with 12-20 techs after espionage is possible, even when your science output is above 1k at that stage. It just doesn't matter brute force wise.
    Set resources to spares, it is just a benefit for the AI if they are abundant, it wil give them more options as you will get.
    Be prepared to reload a starting map, yes your city must be on a hill and only can be attacked at waterside on just 1 tile and you can place a strategic general improvement to damage all that is waiting for your port to attack.
    Unfortunately they never gave an option for the research agreement, it means in general you have to find and destroy them with 5 against 20 units. It is very hard to win a science victory at Deity level, though it is possible.
    Barbarians, set to aggressive, they have more impact on the game as you might think. They AI will likely not choose Honor and it can mess up their game completely depending where they popup. I have seen quite different outcomes of replaying maps due this feature, actually barbarians could be your best ally in the early stage of the game for that matter. At a certain time you will choose honor for at least 1 lvl.
    Your explorer can transform in an archer from ancient ruins with 2 def upgrades, you need 3 or 4 of them. Upgrading units is one of the most important things to consider if you want to win at Deity lvl.

    Now, in advanced setup be sure to activate random seed to get a different outcome of ancient ruins. Also be sure you autosave every turn, or at least every two turns. You will replay many, many times. It isn't possible to win at Deity lvl without reloading. It isn't possible from scratch the brute force is just too much to deal with.

    Now, religion. It still is possible to get the first religion on that lvl. You don't really need it though, it doesn't matter if they convert your non puppet city's if you already build all the improvements possible from your own religion possible. Instead of converting back build the things that are possible from that religion also and just leave them that way, because you actually can do this! Don't waste your time building too many city's the AI just can do that way easier as you can. Just be sure you occupy strategic resources places and can defend them. Conquer your opponents with your elite troops and sadly destroy most of their city's except when they have a different resource (preferable two) even if they have wonders, just destroy them, you can't keep up with solid happiness before you reach a decent level in culture to counter this.
    A culture victory is probably the most easy one, France would come in mind for that.
    For other Polynesia, Indonesia, Shoshone are good choices to start with. Challenge is to win with every possible leader.

    The intention of this post is to give you ideas and inspiration how to deal with it but it isn't easy to achieve just 1,9% was capable to manage.
    Last edited by Styx; 06-08-2017 at 02:56 AM.

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