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Thread: Where's My Wall? - Community Research

  1. #1
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    Where's My Wall? - Community Research

    This post is the results of this thread. To review the history, start at post #2.

    Below is a chart from the current findings. It's quite wide, so best viewed on a computer. Currently it does not contain the "border tiers" discussed, but those will be added soon. There are a few different ways to use the chart, depending on what you're trying to determine.

    To figure out "where is my wall", just look at the tier for your deck, and the dotted lines will show the +5 and +3 wall. For example, if you are in LG, the +5 wall is about 1/3 of the way through legendary, and the +3 wall about 2/3 through.

    To figure out "how far can I get", look at the graphical bar in your tier for the number of hours you expect to play. The grey bar shows how far you should be able to get, each of the red bars shows how many 12 packs of titles you would need to get even further, and each of the blue bars shows how many 5 packs of bouts you would need to go even further. So just count up the bars to see what's required. For example, if I'm in Lg and can only play 24 hours, I would make it about half-way through epic. To get the epic would take just over a title pack. To get the legendary card would require purchasing 2 bout refills and about 8 title packs.

    To figure out "can I get a specific card", you could use the same process as above and count the bars. However, the text provides a faster way with the bars already added up for you. For example, if I'm in Lg and want to get the survivor card while only playing 24 hours, it would take 200 titles and 105 bouts.

    It's obviously a pretty big chart, but hopefully it's clear enough, and can help answer these regularly asked questions. However, a couple caveats:
    1. Deck balance and location within a tier can make a big difference, often half a card. If you're right at the start or end of a tier, compare your tier with the one before or after to get a better sense of how far you might be able to go.
    2. Not all titles need to be purchased. The chart simply shows how many titles you'll need to get to a certain point. Since you'll pull titles off the board, a number of the packs required will likely be provided for free as resets. As an example, I pulled over 60 last RTG, and was able to get the event card in under 60 hours for free with a Sv deck.
    3. The chart is not optimized for the cost of titles. For ease of calculations, it simply uses the 12 packs. If you need 6 or 13 12-packs, buy the small (75) or large (156) packs to save some credits or get some extra free titles.
    4. It doesn't really matter if you use titles before the +5 wall or after the +3 wall, the math works out the same. However, if you are using them while going through a wall, it can save you 1 or 2 bouts each time. So in general, use your titles as early as possible.

    Thanks to everybody who contributed data and discussion for this thread. I'll try to keep this chart updated if there is enough new data or changes (like a new tier ), so keep submitting your results after each RTG. The combined data is available at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dDMsFrFlHDS7Wc, or the individual event results are at:
    Event Players Summary Chart Event Thread
    RTG XXV: Chris Jericho 25 post #44 http://i.imgur.com/qRJv9sV.png RTG XXV Event Chat: Chris Jericho
    RTG XXVI: Kalisto 32 post #138 http://i.imgur.com/MwAhIor.png Road To Glory XXVI Event Chat: Kalisto
    RTG XXVII: Ric Flair 24 post #208 http://i.imgur.com/UIfbbiz.png RTG XXVII Event Chat: Ric Flair
    RTG XXVIII: Daniel Bryan 40 post #317 http://i.imgur.com/b9N3UDD.png RTG XXVIII Event Chat: Daniel Bryan
    RTG XXIX: Brie Bella 32 post #369 http://i.imgur.com/b9N3UDD.png RTG XXIX Event Chat: Brie Bella
    RTG XXX*: John Cena 32 post #465 http://i.imgur.com/iSq8hkE.png* RTG XXX Event Chat: John Cena
    RTG XXXI: Andre the Giant 72 post #631 http://i.imgur.com/hslv7gd.png RTG XXXI: Andre The Giant
    RTG XXXII: Sami Zayn 60 post #745 http://i.imgur.com/nfozgin.png RTG XXXII Event Chat: Sami Zayn
    RTG XXXIII: Shinsuke Nakamura 55 post #828 http://i.imgur.com/nfozgin.png Shinsuke Nakamura: RTG Thread
    RTG XXXIV: AJ Styles 50 post #903 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RtG XXXIV Event Chat: AJ Styles
    RTG XXXV: Seth Rollins 69 post #1052 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RtG XXXV Event Chat: Seth Rollins
    RTG XXXVI: Dolph Ziggler 38 post #1102 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png Rtg XXXVII Dolph Ziggler Event Chat
    RTG XXXVII: Dean Ambrose 51 post #1198 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RtG XXXVII Event Chat: Dean Ambrose
    RTG XXXVIII: Samoa Joe 32 post #1260 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RtG XXXVIII Event Chat: Samoa Joe
    RTG XXXIX: Bray Wyatt 32 post #1308 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RTG XXXIX Event Chat: Bray Wyatt
    RTG XL: Sasha Banks 27 post #1400 http://i.imgur.com/GTWOArd.png RTG XL Event Chat: Sasha Banks
    RTG XLI: Finn Balor 36 post #1401 http://i.imgur.com/tIYpTQI.jpg RTG XLI Event Chat SS: Finn Balor
    RTG XLII: Braun Strowman 30 post #1435 http://i.imgur.com/tIYpTQI.jpg RTG XLII Event Chat SS: Braun Strowman
    RTG XLIII: Kevin Owens 53 post #1509 http://i.imgur.com/tIYpTQI.jpg RtG XLIII Event Chat: Kevin Owens
    RTG XLIV: Cesaro 20 post #1538 http://i.imgur.com/tIYpTQI.jpg RtG XLIV Event Chat: Cesaro
    RTG XLV: John Cena Soon... Soon... Soon...
    * Flash event - chart is a special version, created proportionally from the existing data for the flash event, rather than from results.

    Below is the current chart which is an estimate for the SS tier. Please use the links above to see historic versions.

    Last edited by beanie42; 10-18-2016 at 09:51 AM.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  2. #2
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    It's probably apparent from my previous posts on the points required for various modes, but I like collecting and presenting useful information, and I really dislike some of the repetivie questions on the forum that have fairly standard answers. Since I've finished all the modes research, I thought that for my next project I would put something together for RTG. Specifically, something that generally answers the questions of "how far can I get" or "how many titles do I need", while taking into account some of the normal responses which ask "what's your deck level" and "depends how many bouts you miss". I plan to have this ready and posted before the next RTG (so by around Feb. 3). What I'm hoping is that the community can help me determine where we collectively think the wall is, both subjectively and objectively.

    Subjective: I'm asking the more experienced and helpful members of the community if you could respond by copying the grid below and filling in as much of the data as possible, based on your experience and how you'd normally answer this question.

    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall
    3pt Wall

    Objective: I'd ask everyone who wants to participate to post their deck level, and where they hit the +5 and +3 wall. Even those with lower level decks or who normally just lurk on the forum, here's your chance to contribute! For example:
    Lg++, +5 at Sv 15, +3 at Sv 50.


    I'll wait until Tuesday, after this RTG finishes, before I start reviewing the data. Thanks to everybody who chooses to help!

    MOD NOTE: Just as an aside... If you want to fill in your own grid, click "Reply With Quote" then "Go Advanced" to get to the advanced screen, then click the top right "A/A" icon to turn the reply to WYSIWYG mode and the table will appear in a format that's much easier to enter values into.


    To start it off, here's my gut feel of where I think the walls are.

    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall SR 0 SR 55 UR 0 UR 46 UR 70 Ep 0 Ep 55 Ep 82 Lg 0 Lg 60 Lg 90 Sv 0 Sv 65 Sv 97 Ev 0 Ev 68
    3pt Wall SR 27 UR 35 UR 35 UR 81 Ep 41 Ep 41 Ep 96 Lg 45 Lg 45 Lg 105 Sv 48 Sv 48 Sv 113 Ev 51 Ev 51 Ev 119
    Last edited by beanie42; 02-01-2016 at 10:57 AM.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  3. #3
    Good job i will come back with my wall
    [PRO* ROMAN EMPIRE]☆☆☆

  4. #4
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    You do realize that the wall comes a bit late even when you are on the same tier. For example a deck, say, at the starting of leg++ will hit the wall earlier than a deck at the end of the tier.
    But yeah, as rounded-off figures it'll be interesting.
    So I suggest to those who post their walls to attach a screenshot of their deck tier too.
    IGN-The Igneel

  5. #5
    I hit my +5/10 wall on The Rock with a SV+ deck on 105 points. Was able to finish with +6s, so i'm guessing that I won't be hitting the +3/6 wall and the +5/10 wall will be up to 135 or so.
    (SS Brock Lesnar) SS++ SS Apollo Crews* l RD Shinsuke* l PCC Sami Zayn* l SS Ryder* l WM Nia Jax* l WM Naomi*
    Amount of KOTRS Won: Seriously why in the hell do you people do this? Nobody cares.

  6. #6
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    This is a great idea. Thanks for doing this.
    IGN: Chrisss Tier: WM++ Team: Team F.U.B.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutamvar View Post
    You do realize that the wall comes a bit late even when you are on the same tier. For example a deck, say, at the starting of leg++ will hit the wall earlier than a deck at the end of the tier.
    Yeah, I realize that. Unfortunately, there's already 16 "real" levels to collect data for, and breaking it down into more specific things like "early/mid/late" would sky-rocket it up to 45 or so. That would make it pretty difficult to review/consolidate, and presenting it in a useful format for would be near impossible. Hopefully the average/normal walls will suffice, and also seeing the walls in the level before and after should allow players to "guesstimate" based on their specific position within a tier.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  8. #8
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    Last RTG, with a LEG+ deck I managed myself to get about 100-110 pts via +10 and to around 155pts or so with +6 matches on the legendary UW card, maybe that helps, but I have added a couple more Leg pros to my deck, maybe I can get a Little bit further this time.
    Bare in mind that a leg+ deck can have an almost whoopiping 30k points difference between both ends, that is the difference equivalent to 4 commons and 4 leg pros... walls, I guess, are not the same for everyone in the same tier, you should state like a gap or something where the gap would be, maybe for leg+ is between 60-150pts on the legendary card.
    Hope this helps!!
    IGN: ii_HBK_ii
    S1: SV RTG Sting* - SV Fusion Cena* - SV Fusion Roman* - WM RTG HHH* - SV Fusion Nikki*
    S3: WM 33++ Matt* - Jinder* - MITB Taker* - Black*- Bayley* - Asuka*

  9. #9
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    Just as an aside... If you want to fill in your own grid, click "Reply With Quote" then "Go Advanced" to get to the advanced screen, then click the top right "A/A" icon to turn the reply to WYSIWYG mode and the table will appear in a format that's much easier to enter values into.


    The only variable that I'm not sure is accounted for here is balance. An unbalanced deck won't get as far, will it?
    Last edited by Zeokage; 01-21-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Nice idea as opposed to the numerous "where's my wall" threads, might get a rough estimate of people's walls that people can use
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  11. #11
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    ^Sadly we will still get them.
    @azzim93 | IGN-Azim | Nothing wrong with the cost cutting measures WWE is taking, except Talking Smack won't be weekly anymore...no I am not sad.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeokage View Post
    The only variable that I'm not sure is accounted for here is balance. An unbalanced deck won't get as far, will it?
    unbalanced makes it easier while doing +3/5 but balanced makes it much easier to win +1 in my experience. last rtg i had a semi balanced deck about 2/3 into leg. i had 3 leg pros (trained to match sv singles) and 1 sv single, along with 7-8 epic pros and the rest leg singles. made it to 50 pts into the leg card. and then to ~130 with +3. if i had trained them all to max i would have won a few more before hitting my wall.

    from my experience playing rtg you can do about 1/3 of the points for every "subtier" within your tier. so for example your deck is epic+ your wall will most likely be 1/2 to 2/3 of the epic card. although balance is not mattering too much, your highest and lowest card shouldnt be too far away from each other. for example your lowest card is a UR pro, than you shouldnt train your cards much higher than epic pro
    Ingame: Acid (WM33++)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzim014 View Post
    ^Sadly we will still get them.
    annoyingly
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  14. #14
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    Just finished John Cena leg at middle of leg+ bar then lost 7-5 first match on svr
    leg+ 0svr @+5 is accurate

  15. #15
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    Wow beanie42 blew the research screenshot out of the water
    W2g
    Phat Cam ~ SS17+ ~ SCPL 4 life ~ tweeter

  16. #16
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    I am in Legendary (about half way to Legendary+), and just hit my 5 wall 65 points into Cena. I could of maybe won one more match, since I lost two +5s in a row by only 1 point. But I didn't want to risk losing anymore bouts. My deck isn't all that balanced though, mainly thanks to my damn Divas. lol

    Hit my 3 wall at 101 into Cena.
    Pic of deck for reference:
    http://i.imgur.com/QFavD0w.png

    Yes, I know my Divas suck.
    Last edited by Bloody Sky; 01-22-2016 at 02:30 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall Leg10 Leg50
    3pt Wall Leg100

  18. #18
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    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall Leg10 Leg50 EV 130
    3pt Wall Leg100


    Just hit my +5 wall 130 into Jericho.
    The Voice of Reason for S3

  19. #19
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    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall SV 40
    3pt Wall Event 33

    this event has been so much easier for me than the last one
    Retired Legend

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  20. #20
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    Legendary (a little over the tier name) hit my +5 wall 130 into Legendary card. Starting +3 now
    WM++ ||| Styles* | Del Rio* | Crews* | Ambrose (F)* | Charlotte* | Lynch* | Stop Sign | McMahon

  21. #21
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    My +3 wall is 150 svr on leg+ middle of bar

  22. #22
    Leg+ (just at the beginning). Hit the +5 wall 170 into Cena

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtb View Post
    Leg+ (just at the beginning). Hit the +5 wall 170 into Cena
    I'm about the same rank and hit it at 153. My deck is all epic pros except for leg pro Bryan and Booker, sv Finn, and 4 leg divas

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by elite0356 View Post
    Legendary (a little over the tier name) hit my +5 wall 130 into Legendary card. Starting +3 now
    Same deck hit +3 172 into Legendary.
    After losing half my matches I just caked it instead of my usual lose 3 in a row.I only caked it cause I know I can grind +2s and get my second Survivor card
    WM++ ||| Styles* | Del Rio* | Crews* | Ambrose (F)* | Charlotte* | Lynch* | Stop Sign | McMahon

  25. #25
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    Barely in leg and hit my five wall 35 in Cena
    Last edited by Jonanator27; 01-23-2016 at 04:18 PM.

  26. #26
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    In Leg+ right after the "a" in legendary. My +5 wall was 20 points into SV. My +3 wall was 187 points into SV.

  27. #27
    I have now hit my +3 wall 86 into SV (just into Leg+)

  28. #28
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    I am legendary+ and my bar is almost full. Hit my +5 wall 173 points into legendary (Cena)
    Balanced deck with 8 male legendary pros, 2 survivor, 6 epic pros and 1 legendary pro diva, 2 survivors and 1 epic pro.

    Edit: Seems I spoke too soon. Tried one more time and got 23 points into Owens with +5s.
    Last edited by Sp00ker; 01-23-2016 at 05:11 AM.

  29. #29
    Hit my +5/10 wall 145 on Chris Jericho, but I was able to finish him with +3/6s.
    (SS Brock Lesnar) SS++ SS Apollo Crews* l RD Shinsuke* l PCC Sami Zayn* l SS Ryder* l WM Nia Jax* l WM Naomi*
    Amount of KOTRS Won: Seriously why in the hell do you people do this? Nobody cares.

  30. #30
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    im a leg+ with the bar almost full, hit my +5-10 wall 90 pts into owens

  31. #31
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    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall 5/195
    3pt Wall 104/195
    IGN: Chrisss Tier: WM++ Team: Team F.U.B.

  32. #32
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    My bar is at the very end of Leg+. I hit my +5/+10 wall at 105 for the survivor card. I hit the +3/+6 wall at 23 of the event card.

  33. #33
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    I really appreciate everybody who's helping with this, thanks!

    For me, with a balanced Sv deck (almost 1/4 bar) , my +5 wall was Ev 60, and +3 was at Ev 96.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  34. #34
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    Well thought out topic, seems to me that RTG has been.made easy again, if you're in leg+ there's no way you should be able to +5 through the leg card let alone up to half way through the sv card
    IGN: Darren Wright Tier: Ultimate+. Elite Pro Orton, Ultimate Event Pro Goldberg, Ultimate Pro Miz, Ultimate Pro Seth Rollins, Elite Pro Becky Lynch, Hardened Pro Charlotte

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanie42 View Post
    I really appreciate everybody who's helping with this, thanks!

    For me, with a balanced Sv deck (almost 1/4 bar) , my +5 wall was Ev 60, and +3 was at Ev 96.
    my +5 wall also for the Event card (55 points in - 5 less than you)...not going for the event card since I didn't get the first half but still doing it for the purpose of this exercise...
    Today's kids are like leaves without trees...

    disclaimer: sarcasm font in use...

  36. #36
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    I'm on SV tier (barely), and both last RTG (I was high Leg++) and this RTG I was able to get the SV card totally at +5, with only 1 or 2 losses

    I've stopped playing this RTG so I can't help you with where the walls are on the event card, but last RTG as soon as I started on the event card I couldn't win a +5... The +3 wall came at roughly 80 points
    Ranked Tier- SS17
    Ranked Deck- WM33 Undertaker*, WM33 AJ*, WM33 KO*, WM33 Rollins*, WM33 Nikki*, WM33 Charlotte*

  37. #37
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    +5 wall at 30 points into the SV card.
    +3 wall at 21 points into the event card.

    @azzim93 | IGN-Azim | Nothing wrong with the cost cutting measures WWE is taking, except Talking Smack won't be weekly anymore...no I am not sad.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super_Chrisss View Post
    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall 5/195
    3pt Wall 104/195

    +5 wall at 105 into SV KO.
    I'll update the +3 wall when it comes. See the difference?
    IGN-The Igneel

  39. #39
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    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg+ Lg++ Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall Ev 100
    3pt Wall Ev 181

    My deck is 1/3rd of SV+
    P.S. Really good thread
    IGN - Wickedesu|Survival++
    Paige + Bella = PaleBella

  40. #40
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    Middle of Leg+
    70p Owens +5 Wall
    Last edited by DamirSupercard; 01-24-2016 at 05:22 AM.

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