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Thread: Where's My Wall? - Community Research

  1. #41
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    1/3 into Survivor tier, I'm starting to lose a bunch of +5s at 125 points into SV

  2. #42
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    Once again, thanks to everybody who's contributed so far. For anybody that tracked this info but hasn't posted yet, I'll start reviewing the data in about 24 hours, so please get it in before then!
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  3. #43
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    Thanks for compiling this research. This is truly useful (at least until WM tier comes out).

    My RTG deck is a little more than half of the bar in SV tier. I made it to:
    80/205, +5s
    101/205, +3s

  4. #44
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    Once again, thanks to everyone who helped out with this! Here's the consolidated data, followed by my analysis.

    Assigned Tier Name Reported Tier 5pt Wall 3pt Wall 5pt Wall Total Points
    Ep++ middle Graves Ep++ Lg 10 560
    Lg middle Jonanator27
    Graves
    Bloody Sky
    Lg start
    Lg
    Lg middle
    Lg 35
    Lg 50
    Lg 65

    Lg 100
    Lg 101
    585
    600
    615
    Lg+ start elite0356
    Vinnie Vegas
    jtb
    Lg middle
    Lg+ start
    Lg+ start
    Lg 130
    Lg 153
    Lg 170
    Lg 172
    Sv 50
    Sv 86
    680
    703
    720
    Lg+ middle Troy 76
    Super_Chrisss
    mcmangq
    Sp00ker
    Azzim014
    RomanEmpire
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Lg+
    Sv 0
    Sv 5
    Sv 20
    Sv 23
    Sv 30
    Sv 40
    Sv 150
    Sv 104
    Sv 187
    Ev 21
    Ev 21
    Ev 33
    730
    735
    750
    753
    760
    770
    Lg+ end DamirSupercard
    tchaba
    sofargone
    Rutamvar
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Sv 70
    Sv 90
    Sv 105
    Sv 105


    Ev 23
    800
    820
    835
    835
    Sv start ShadowBook
    steven103179
    Sv start
    Sv
    Sv 125
    Sv 195

    855
    925
    Sv middle heydrinks
    beanie42
    Mr. M.O.T.O.
    Sv
    Sv start
    Sv middle
    Ev 55
    Ev 60
    Ev 80
    Ev 103
    Ev 96
    Ev 101
    980
    985
    1005
    Sv+ middle Wickedesu
    mcdidher
    Sv+ middle
    Sv+
    Ev 100
    Ev 130
    Ev 181
    1025
    1055
    Sv++ NotIrrelevant Sv++ Ev 145 1070


    Just so emphasize it in case it goes unnoticed, there were no Lg++ decks reported. So a little more care needs to be taken when reviewing the difference between Lg+ and Sv. Also, in the chart I've grouped the decks into an "assigned tier", to account for some balancing issues, or decks which didn't report their position within the tier. Finally, I haven't listed reports from the previous event, as there numbers were very inconsistent with this events, I assume either due to poor memory or a change in difficulty.

    As Rutamvar pointed out, there's a difference depending on where you are within a tier. Based on the data, this doesn't seem to really matter much until after you're in the Lg tier. Also, the end of a tier should be very similar to the start of the next tier (for example L++ full = Sv empty), so the discrepancies should be more apparent at other points on the bar (likely between about 1/3 and 2/3). Also, while it does matter how full your bar is, the difference seems to be most pronounced once you hit the Lg tier. For the purposes of the chart I plan on putting together, I will add in "border tiers" for the Lg and Sv levels, but not earlier tiers.

    Based on historic community discussion, the assumption is that at tier+ you can normally get your card (so Ep+ can get the epic at +5, Lg+ can get the legend card, etc.). The data seems to support this until the legend card, after which it appears to get easier. Specifically, the "LG+ middle" group gets the legend card and just a little bit into the Sv card before the +5 wall. However, the Sv card can be achieved by those with just a Sv deck somewhere between the start and middle. While actual data wasn't submitted, based on the Sv+ data, you can extrapolate that you can get the event card with a Sv+ end or Sv++ start deck, which is almost a full tier earlier than previous levels.

    For the +3 wall, not quite as much data was provided. However, the historic community assumptions (since the +3 widening) of 10-20 matches at +3 seem correct, except for parts of the Lg tier. From the reports, up until around Lg+ start players were getting around 40-50 pts, and after Sv they were back to 20-40 points. However, most of the Lg+ decks reported 100-170 points during the +3, far above the other tiers reported and historic anecdotal evidence. So as with the +5 wall, there appears to be something special happening to change the "curve" after you get to legendary. Except in this case the change is more extreme but shorter, so it makes it way easier in the earlier tiers (Lg+/Lg++) but more difficult later (Sv). As a result, predicting the +3 wall will likely be even more challenging and error prone than the +5 wall.

    So, based on all this, the levels/walls I plan on using for the chart I'm putting together are likely going to be:

    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg/Lg+ border Lg+ Lg+/ Lg++ border Lg++ Lg++/ Sv border Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall SR 0 SR 55 UR 0 UR 50 UR 70 Ep 0 Ep 50 Ep 80 Lg 0 Lg 25 Lg 50 Lg 140 Sv 25 Sv 100 Sv 150 Sv 195 Ev 65 Ev 115 n/a
    3pt Wall SR 27 UR 5 UR 39 UR 86 Ep 2 Ep 42 Ep 95 Ep 149 Lg 45 Lg 91 Lg 116 Sv 56 Sv 124 Ev 7 Ev 42 Ev 69 Ev 101 n/a n/a

    If anybody has any feedback or alternative analysis, I'd love to continue this conversation, and potentially improve the final chart I'm going to start working on. Otherwise, it should be ready within a week or so, in time for the next RTG.
    Last edited by beanie42; 02-08-2016 at 06:36 AM.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  5. #45
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    great work Beanie...forgot to report back on my +3 wall...I hit it at 103 points...didn't try to finish the event card because I didn't have it's match from the PCC...
    Today's kids are like leaves without trees...

    disclaimer: sarcasm font in use...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by heydrinks View Post
    great work Beanie...forgot to report back on my +3 wall...I hit it at 103 points...didn't try to finish the event card because I didn't have it's match from the PCC...
    No problem. And I was going to use Ev 101, so I'm within one match
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  7. #47
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    First of, NotIrrelevant is sv++, not sure about mcdidher, but i think he is near sv++ too.
    Secondly, i'm more 1/3rd of sv+, but i quess with this amount of data its fine that i'm listed as middle sv+.
    P.S. Plz correct my nickname
    P.P.S. Great job!
    IGN - Wickedesu|Survival++
    Paige + Bella = PaleBella

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedesu View Post
    First of, NotIrrelevant is sv++, not sure about mcdidher, but i think he is near sv++ too.
    mcdidher did indicate in this thread an Sv+ deck. NotIrrelevant mentioned an Sv+ deck as well for Rock, so didn't realize he'd moved up. Corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedesu View Post
    Secondly, i'm more 1/3rd of sv+, but i quess with this amount of data its fine that i'm listed as middle sv+.
    As for "middle", I arbitrarily moved 1/3 and 2/3 into start/middle/end, since otherwise there would be too many data points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedesu View Post
    P.S. Plz correct my nickname
    Name fixed, sorry. With this much info, I knew there would be some typos or cut'n'paste errors (and I expect there to be a few more noticed ).
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  9. #49
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    Sorry for the bump but can we get this stickied ? Such great research
    SV++
    RD Kalisto *, RD Daniel Bryan*, RD Cena*, SV HBK *, Leg Nattie*, SV Brie
    Team :- #The New Era

  10. #50
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    Agree, and i think that result should be at 1st post.
    And it would be great if OP could do this research next RTGs as well.
    IGN - Wickedesu|Survival++
    Paige + Bella = PaleBella

  11. #51
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    ye great research beanie, forgot to mention my leg+ was towards the end
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash1991c View Post
    Sorry for the bump but can we get this stickied ? Such great research
    Does no-one read the stickies? There's a link to it in the Forum Map thread. Has been since I saw the thread.
    YOU for the CYBER SERIES!
    Vote to decide who is the best male WWE Superstar on the roster today!
    Currently voting: Grand Final

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedesu View Post
    And it would be great if OP could do this research next RTGs as well.
    I don't mind collecting it next RTG, if people want to keep contributing, although not sure that we'll see much change until WM tier.

    As for being the "1st post", I'll be putting together a graphical overview which should be simpler to read. Sort of the difference between the "combined" and the individual stats/screenshots for the points threads. Once ready I'll put that in the opening post, which should be more useful. Hoping to have it done over the weekend, so stay tuned...
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanie42 View Post
    I don't mind collecting it next RTG, if people want to keep contributing, although not sure that we'll see much change until WM tier.

    As for being the "1st post", I'll be putting together a graphical overview which should be simpler to read. Sort of the difference between the "combined" and the individual stats/screenshots for the points threads. Once ready I'll put that in the opening post, which should be more useful. Hoping to have it done over the weekend, so stay tuned...
    That's great. I think with more players giving you their stats - overall information will be more precise.
    Keep it up. Quality thread!
    IGN - Wickedesu|Survival++
    Paige + Bella = PaleBella

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeokage View Post
    Does no-one read the stickies? There's a link to it in the Forum Map thread. Has been since I saw the thread.
    No need to be so aggresive
    SV++
    RD Kalisto *, RD Daniel Bryan*, RD Cena*, SV HBK *, Leg Nattie*, SV Brie
    Team :- #The New Era

  16. #56
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    It wasn't meant to come across as aggressive, although questions like that shouldn't be asked in threads, but rather in a PM to a moderator.
    YOU for the CYBER SERIES!
    Vote to decide who is the best male WWE Superstar on the roster today!
    Currently voting: Grand Final

  17. #57
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    Sorry for the lateness but I hit my +3 wall 50 into Owens. I spent the rest of my time grinding out +1 so I didn't come back on.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeokage View Post
    It wasn't meant to come across as aggressive, although questions like that shouldn't be asked in threads, but rather in a PM to a moderator.
    It was a statement not a question .. Notice the grammar .. No question mark
    SV++
    RD Kalisto *, RD Daniel Bryan*, RD Cena*, SV HBK *, Leg Nattie*, SV Brie
    Team :- #The New Era

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash1991c View Post
    It was a statement not a question .. Notice the grammar .. No question mark
    Quote Originally Posted by ash1991c View Post
    Sorry for the bump but can we get this stickied ? Such great research
    errrmmm..??

    had to be that guy RD is boring me atm
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  20. #60
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    I would have pointed that out too... Any moderation discussion should be done by PM anyway, statements and questions alike.
    YOU for the CYBER SERIES!
    Vote to decide who is the best male WWE Superstar on the roster today!
    Currently voting: Grand Final

  21. #61
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    Sorry, forgot to update where I hit my +3 wall. +3 all the way through Owens. Hit the wall 21 points into Jericho.

  22. #62
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    I've moved the original post to the second post, and added a chart with the results to the first post. Hope it helps
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  23. #63
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    So to clarify .. If I'm sat in leg ++ and play for 54 hours I will need 12 x 12 pack of bouts and will finish the event card ? That's how the table works ?
    SV++
    RD Kalisto *, RD Daniel Bryan*, RD Cena*, SV HBK *, Leg Nattie*, SV Brie
    Team :- #The New Era

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash1991c View Post
    So to clarify .. If I'm sat in leg ++ and play for 54 hours I will need 12 x 12 pack of bouts and will finish the event card ? That's how the table works ?
    You got it! Was a little nervous since the chart is so "busy", glad you figure it out so quickly. And for your scenario, my guess would be that you'd probably get 5-6 of those packs from resets, and only need to buy 6-7. So I'd just start with a small pack (75 titles), and then see where I'm at on the last day.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  25. #65
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    Sweet .. Pretty easy to understand and I hope my scenario will help others understand it .. Thanks for compiling this research man it's awesome !! Maybe carry it through this RTG ? I'd be happy to contribute as I didn't play the last one
    SV++
    RD Kalisto *, RD Daniel Bryan*, RD Cena*, SV HBK *, Leg Nattie*, SV Brie
    Team :- #The New Era

  26. #66
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    That chart looks sick beanie, at the end of leg++ now so will hope to get kalisto a little quicker as I have plans on Sunday
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanie42 View Post
    Once again, thanks to everyone who helped out with this! Here's the consolidated data, followed by my analysis.

    Assigned Tier Name Reported Tier 5pt Wall 3pt Wall 5pt Wall Total Points
    Ep++ middle Graves Ep++ Lg 10 560
    Lg middle Jonanator27
    Graves
    Bloody Sky
    Lg start
    Lg
    Lg middle
    Lg 35
    Lg 50
    Lg 65

    Lg 100
    Lg 101
    585
    600
    615
    Lg+ start elite0356
    Vinnie Vegas
    jtb
    Lg middle
    Lg+ start
    Lg+ start
    Lg 130
    Lg 153
    Lg 170
    Lg 172

    Sv 86
    680
    703
    720
    Lg+ middle Troy 76
    Super_Chrisss
    mcmangq
    Sp00ker
    Azzim014
    RomanEmpire
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Lg+
    Sv 0
    Sv 5
    Sv 20
    Sv 23
    Sv 30
    Sv 40
    Sv 150
    Sv 104
    Sv 187

    Ev 21
    Ev 33
    730
    735
    750
    753
    760
    770
    Lg+ end DamirSupercard
    tchaba
    sofargone
    Rutamvar
    Lg+ middle
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Lg+ end
    Sv 70
    Sv 90
    Sv 105
    Sv 105


    Ev 23
    800
    820
    835
    835
    Sv start ShadowBook
    steven103179
    Sv start
    Sv
    Sv 125
    Sv 195

    855
    925
    Sv middle heydrinks
    beanie42
    Mr. M.O.T.O.
    Sv
    Sv start
    Sv middle
    Ev 55
    Ev 60
    Ev 80
    Ev 103
    Ev 96
    Ev 101
    980
    985
    1005
    Sv+ middle Wickedesu
    mcdidher
    Sv+ middle
    Sv+
    Ev 100
    Ev 130
    Ev 181
    1025
    1055
    Sv++ NotIrrelevant Sv++ Ev 145 1070


    Just so emphasize it in case it goes unnoticed, there were no Lg++ decks reported. So a little more care needs to be taken when reviewing the difference between Lg+ and Sv. Also, in the chart I've grouped the decks into an "assigned tier", to account for some balancing issues, or decks which didn't report their position within the tier. Finally, I haven't listed reports from the previous event, as there numbers were very inconsistent with this events, I assume either due to poor memory or a change in difficulty.

    As Rutamvar pointed out, there's a difference depending on where you are within a tier. Based on the data, this doesn't seem to really matter much until after you're in the Lg tier. Also, the end of a tier should be very similar to the start of the next tier (for example L++ full = Sv empty), so the discrepancies should be more apparent at other points on the bar (likely between about 1/3 and 2/3). Also, while it does matter how full your bar is, the difference seems to be most pronounced once you hit the Lg tier. For the purposes of the chart I plan on putting together, I will add in "border tiers" for the Lg and Sv levels, but not earlier tiers.

    Based on historic community discussion, the assumption is that at tier+ you can normally get your card (so Ep+ can get the epic at +5, Lg+ can get the legend card, etc.). The data seems to support this until the legend card, after which it appears to get easier. Specifically, the "LG+ middle" group gets the legend card and just a little bit into the Sv card before the +5 wall. However, the Sv card can be achieved by those with just a Sv deck somewhere between the start and middle. While actual data wasn't submitted, based on the Sv+ data, you can extrapolate that you can get the event card with a Sv+ end or Sv++ start deck, which is almost a full tier earlier than previous levels.

    For the +3 wall, not quite as much data was provided. However, the historic community assumptions (since the +3 widening) of 10-20 matches at +3 seem correct, except for parts of the Lg tier. From the reports, up until around Lg+ start players were getting around 40-50 pts, and after Sv they were back to 20-40 points. However, most of the Lg+ decks reported 100-170 points during the +3, far above the other tiers reported and historic anecdotal evidence. So as with the +5 wall, there appears to be something special happening to change the "curve" after you get to legendary. Except in this case the change is more extreme but shorter, so it makes it way easier in the earlier tiers (Lg+/Lg++) but more difficult later (Sv). As a result, predicting the +3 wall will likely be even more challenging and error prone than the +5 wall.

    So, based on all this, the levels/walls I plan on using for the chart I'm putting together are likely going to be:

    Tier R SR SR+ SR++ UR UR+ UR++ Ep Ep+ Ep++ Lg Lg/Lg+ border Lg+ Lg+/ Lg++ border Lg++ Lg++/ Sv border Sv Sv+ Sv++
    5pt Wall SR 0 SR 55 UR 0 UR 50 UR 70 Ep 0 Ep 50 Ep 80 Lg 0 Lg 25 Lg 50 Lg 140 Sv 25 Sv 100 Sv 150 Sv 195 Ev 65 Ev 115 n/a
    3pt Wall SR 27 UR 5 UR 39 UR 86 Ep 2 Ep 42 Ep 95 Ep 149 Lg 45 Lg 91 Lg 116 Sv 56 Sv 124 Ev 7 Ev 42 Ev 69 Ev 101 n/a n/a

    If anybody has any feedback or alternative analysis, I'd love to continue this conversation, and potentially improve the final chart I'm going to start working on. Otherwise, it should be ready within a week or so, in time for the next RTG.
    Now this is certainly awesome though what I was looking for hasn't yet been reported. Yes, leg++ is what I was looking for. Guess I'll have to report this event then.
    IGN-The Igneel

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutamvar View Post
    Now this is certainly awesome though what I was looking for hasn't yet been reported. Yes, leg++ is what I was looking for. Guess I'll have to report this event then.
    Yeah, unfortunately there was no data for Lg++ last time. Hopefully we can get it this time, and change some of the estimates to more fact-based. I think RomanEmpire is close to hitting that tier as well as a few others, so we'll see what comes in. Also hoping we get even more participation this time, and even more data to fine-tune the results.
    Points Research: Combined | Exhibition | KotR | MitB | RTG | RD | RTG Walls Research

  29. I'm Epic+, but will probably be Epic++ by the time RTG starts, or just shortly after. I will help out with this as I was going to help last RTG, but didn't participate that Sat and Sun, therefore I never hit my wall. Planned on playing all this event though.

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanie42 View Post
    Yeah, unfortunately there was no data for Lg++ last time. Hopefully we can get it this time, and change some of the estimates to more fact-based. I think RomanEmpire is close to hitting that tier as well as a few others, so we'll see what comes in. Also hoping we get even more participation this time, and even more data to fine-tune the results.
    ye I'm leg++ now like 1/3 of the bar away from SV so will see how far my 5 & 3 is this time
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roman Empire View Post
    ye I'm leg++ now like 1/3 of the bar away from SV so will see how far my 5 & 3 is this time
    We're both in the same boat, I'm at the end of leg++ as well. Here's to hoping the 5 point wall comes at the end of the SV card.
    @azzim93 | IGN-Azim

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzim014 View Post
    We're both in the same boat, I'm at the end of leg++ as well. Here's to hoping the 5 point wall comes at the end of the SV card.
    Ye man hope so wanna get this RTG done as fast as possible tbh
    Retired Legend

    Enough is enough & Cat Daddy will never change.

  33. #73
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    Looks good, I'm in the leg ++ to start this rtg. Thanks for the work on this subject beanie42

  34. #74
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    I will then report everything aabout the very very very begining of leg++, as i have just reached it, can't even see the colored bar, is full empty tbh haha, hope everyone gets what everyone wants and good luck!
    IGN: ii_HBK_ii
    S1: SV RTG Sting* - SV Fusion Cena* - SV Fusion Roman* - WM RTG HHH* - SV Fusion Nikki*
    S3: WM 33++ Matt* - Jinder* - MITB Taker* - Black*- Bayley* - Asuka*

  35. #75
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    Thanks beanie42 for your research , Good good Job I will report my +5 and +3 wall this time. I'm sv+ middle/end bar.

    Good luck to all!
    Ranked: Titan+ / RD: Titan+ / RTG: Monster++ / TBG 83-11
    Proud Owner of TW Mega Powers (Titan+ team)

  36. #76
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    Seems I've hit my +5 wall at 27/180 of the legendary card with a nearly filled epic++ deck, which fits in pretty much exactly with what's been found so far. Only posting to reaffirm, really. Also, 27 and not 25 points because at some point I accidentally clicked a +2 game while nearly sleeping

  37. #77
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    Legendary++-+5 Wall-82/195 on Survivor Neville. Next stop-+3 Wall. I hope this helps with the Research.
    Tier SS17-SS17* TitusWM33 Event* The Rock, WM33 Event* Matt Hardy, WM33 Event* Jeff Hardy, WM33 Event* Lesnar, WM33 Event* Bayley WM33* Carmella

  38. #78
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    One milimmiter away from leg++, lost my first match on +5 at the 50 point mark into SV card. I will edit the post or post a new one to report my +3 Wall, hoping this helps.
    IGN: ii_HBK_ii
    S1: SV RTG Sting* - SV Fusion Cena* - SV Fusion Roman* - WM RTG HHH* - SV Fusion Nikki*
    S3: WM 33++ Matt* - Jinder* - MITB Taker* - Black*- Bayley* - Asuka*

  39. #79
    Leg++...about 80% of the way to Survivor Tier. I hit my +5 wall 5 points into the event card...screenshots attached!

    Team DX-Army
    S2 - Wrestlemania++ - Pro Naka, Pro AJ, Pro Heath, Pro Cena, Pro Brie, Pro Sasha

  40. #80
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    Hit my +5 wall at 135/205 Kalisto. Lv. Sv+ middle
    Ranked: Titan+ / RD: Titan+ / RTG: Monster++ / TBG 83-11
    Proud Owner of TW Mega Powers (Titan+ team)

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