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Thread: Has the AI improved any with this latest Australian patch?

  1. #1
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    Has the AI improved any with this latest Australian patch?

    Hoping for a miracle here. Is it any better? Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Yeah it's better. Start a two player game with just you and the comp on diety mode. Good luck surviving.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by UUFrost View Post
    Yeah it's better. Start a two player game with just you and the comp on diety mode. Good luck surviving.
    Difficulty level has nothing to do with the AI.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by UUFrost View Post
    Yeah it's better. Start a two player game with just you and the comp on diety mode. Good luck surviving.
    Yeah that doesn't mean anything. The worst AI in the world (arguable CIV 6) can beat you if you set it to cheat bad enough.

  5. #5
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    It is better.

    The AI is not as easy to stream roll militarily as it was before. There are more units on the board. That said, the AI is still not aggressive... well except for maybe that Montezuma fellow.

    The game still has a nice mix of different civs all trying to stomp you with their specialty.

  6. #6
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    They can take walled cities now. Still haven't seen any runaways or anything though. I think a player would have to be woefully unprepared to really get beat militarily.

  7. #7
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    I still haven't got the foggiest clue how to beat a Cossack army with Norway and people are asking for harder AIs?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicRatlhead51 View Post
    They can take walled cities now.
    There are unconfirmed rumors that the AI is able to move and shoot its ranged units in the same turn now

  9. #9
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    I did decide to start playing this game again even though my favorite bug still there (I just write down what each city is building, sigh).

    As far as the AI goes, maybe, just maybe, it is a little better. It's still early but it was smart enough to know when to beg for peace this time. And it held me off better with ranged too. We'll see....

  10. #10
    I have trimmed my opponents down to one while I still try to learn how each Civ works.

    I have been starting at the top of the drop down menu of Civs and have all DLC Civs with a win and have started with Brazil yesterday.

    I have gotten all Map Type and Size Achievements.

    I have three difficulty levels not completed.

    Learning to work with districts was definitely a learning curve experience.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTransistor1 View Post
    ...
    Learning to work with districts was definitely a learning curve experience.
    Still is.

    I have recently contemplated the rolling workshop strategy.

    Before, I was very careful about where I put my industrial zones. one zone to help them all kind of thing. Considering I make Coliseum a priority, my core cities tend to cluster around the capital anyway.

    But I have been pondering a concept that seemed to pan out in my recent game of aggression. Acquired cities rarely devote as much thought to centralized benefit sharing as the core cities do, so I have started rolling the factory bonuses from the core city, to adjacent cities that don't need them to expand the influence to the outer rims.

    This has the advantage of getting your rim cities up faster, and the redundant factory is not a complete waste as it generates extra great engineers which might be useful for a space race.

    I am not sure a district 'meta' has been established yet, although I am sure there are patterns folks have grown comfortable with.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika Dusk View Post
    I still haven't got the foggiest clue how to beat a Cossack army with Norway and people are asking for harder AIs?
    It's tough. Anonymous forum goers often overstate their own "awesomeness." You'll rarely see an LP by some of the top YouTubers that can match what some forumgoers claim they can do.

    When I did my Aztec play through I remember getting bogged down in a war with Peter because of the Cossacks. I just took the first beneficial treaty I could get, turned my attention to China and crushed Russia later when I got tanks and artillery.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicRatlhead51 View Post
    It's tough. Anonymous forum goers often overstate their own "awesomeness." You'll rarely see an LP by some of the top YouTubers that can match what some forumgoers claim they can do...
    Wait, did I say that out loud? Oh, it wasn't me this time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    I did decide to start playing this game again even though my favorite bug still there (I just write down what each city is building, sigh).

    As far as the AI goes, maybe, just maybe, it is a little better. It's still early but it was smart enough to know when to beg for peace this time. And it held me off better with ranged too. We'll see....
    I was about to write the very same as above.

  15. #15
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    Well, I have had it again with this game. Got to the Atomic Era, played as a warmonger almost the whole time. What I found time and time again was CIVs would declare war, mount a very weak land attack at best and ZERO naval attack, having almost no naval units yet I was across the ocean. Using the Reveal All cheat to see what the AI has and what he is doing, he has declared war with absolutely no way to mount an attack. And then I find within a few turns, he makes peace with me and gives me concessions!!

    I tried this time Firaxis, I really did. But after almost 6 months, your game is still in the most pathetic, broken, useless, inept state of any I have ever seen. Shame on you.

    I am done, again.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    I was across the ocean.
    Play on Pangea only, every other map type is broken due to the complete inability of the AI to use naval or air units.

    Not that the AI is any good with land units (or with anything really) but at least it will be able to reach your border.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lietkynes View Post
    Play on Pangea only, every other map type is broken due to the complete inability of the AI to use naval or air units.

    Not that the AI is any good with land units (or with anything really) but at least it will be able to reach your border.
    Yeah, it did at least attack a city or two from land. I am definitely going shelf it again though. I just need to think of something else to play I guess.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    Well, I have had it again with this game. Got to the Atomic Era, played as a warmonger almost the whole time. What I found time and time again was CIVs would declare war, mount a very weak land attack at best and ZERO naval attack, having almost no naval units yet I was across the ocean. Using the Reveal All cheat to see what the AI has and what he is doing, he has declared war with absolutely no way to mount an attack. And then I find within a few turns, he makes peace with me and gives me concessions!!

    I tried this time Firaxis, I really did. But after almost 6 months, your game is still in the most pathetic, broken, useless, inept state of any I have ever seen. Shame on you.

    I am done, again.
    What difficulty were you playing on? Because from the sounds of it, you are a sore a winner and the only one who hadn't realised you won was well you. Deity is probably the only mode that I can think of where the ai will be able to keep up with someone who plans on warmongering all throughout the game without any care for diplomacy, while building a snowball empire.
    Last edited by Pika Dusk; 03-18-2017 at 08:14 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika Dusk View Post
    What difficulty were you playing on? Because from the sounds of it, you are a sore a winner and the only one who hadn't realised you won was well you. Deity is probably the only mode that I can think of where the ai will be able to keep up with someone who plans on warmongering all throughout the game without any care for diplomacy, while building a snowball empire.
    I was on King. And it's not about that I was winning the game, it was seeing the chaotic, stupid AI. By the way, my warmongering game had me winning in all victory paths except religion, and I was in 2nd on that one. The AI declares war with little to no army, then makes peace with me giving me money and resources. Happened like 5 times. I does not have any navy other than the occasional caravel. No planes at all. It denouncing everybody not just me.

    But you own statement also makes my point. Why do I have to be on deity to be challenged in a warmongering game?? Sounds like a failing AI to me. Another thing about deity, or even the next step down from it. You give the AI enough cheats and its going to beat you no matter what. So where deity may be enough to compete with army strength, it won't even be close in other victory paths. Its not like deity tweaks only the military. He'll beat me in everything.

    Last point, I AM NOT a strategy game hero. I do not expect a super-smart AI. I am not good enough to compete with that even if it existed. This was my 1st full game of CIV 6 and I totally destroyed the AI in every field but one, and didn't really even try to. It's a failure, on just about every level. CIV 5 was bad when it first came out, I was there. But not this bad. And with the ridiculously slow patching this game is getting, it's probably never going to be playable.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    I was on King. And it's not about that I was winning the game, it was seeing the chaotic, stupid AI. By the way, my warmongering game had me winning in all victory paths except religion, and I was in 2nd on that one. The AI declares war with little to no army, then makes peace with me giving me money and resources. Happened like 5 times. I does not have any navy other than the occasional caravel. No planes at all. It denouncing everybody not just me.

    But you own statement also makes my point. Why do I have to be on deity to be challenged in a warmongering game?? Sounds like a failing AI to me. Another thing about deity, or even the next step down from it. You give the AI enough cheats and its going to beat you no matter what. So where deity may be enough to compete with army strength, it won't even be close in other victory paths. Its not like deity tweaks only the military. He'll beat me in everything.

    Last point, I AM NOT a strategy game hero. I do not expect a super-smart AI. I am not good enough to compete with that even if it existed. This was my 1st full game of CIV 6 and I totally destroyed the AI in every field but one, and didn't really even try to. It's a failure, on just about every level. CIV 5 was bad when it first came out, I was there. But not this bad. And with the ridiculously slow patching this game is getting, it's probably never going to be playable.

    That's what I thought, the AI, only really does what you say when you or another Civ is winning in all categories, I've seen it before when Scythia in one of my games was leading in all categories. It was probably hoping that you would bring the war to them or be enough a distraction to get whatever it was really wanting to do accomplished. In one game, where I kept scooping up the ai's settlers the ai started to declare war on me when their goal wasn't to win a war, but to settle somewhere while I was distracted.

    You have to play deity for a warmongering game, because not all of us are natural warmongers and are going to outright attack the ai just to gain more cities and don't find warmongering that fun, which would make the game hard for the non-warmongers who use other forms of diplomacy to win hard to get into a game where you just have to always kill the ai to win.

    Anyway, you claim your not a strategy game hero, but you pulled off my chieftain win in a king game, so you have a congrats, I haven't been able to win that easily since chieftain, so you have my congrats. Also not sure warmongering is the hard strategy, being peaceful and making friends always seems like the harder strategy, much easier to drop a nuke then bring about world peace.
    Last edited by Pika Dusk; 03-19-2017 at 04:07 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika Dusk View Post
    That's what I thought, the AI, only really does what you say when you or another Civ is winning in all categories, I've seen it before when Scythia in one of my games was leading in all categories. It was probably hoping that you would bring the war to them or be enough a distraction to get whatever it was really wanting to do accomplished. In one game, where I kept scooping up the ai's settlers the ai started to declare war on me when their goal wasn't to win a war, but to settle somewhere while I was distracted.

    You have to play deity for a warmongering game, because not all of us are natural warmongers and are going to outright attack the ai just to gain more cities and don't find warmongering that fun, which would make the game hard for the non-warmongers who use other forms of diplomacy to win hard to get into a game where you just have to always kill the ai to win.

    Anyway, you claim your not a strategy game hero, but you pulled off my chieftain win in a king game, so you have a congrats, I haven't been able to win that easily since chieftain, so you have my congrats. Also not sure warmongering is the hard strategy, being peaceful and making friends always seems like the harder strategy, much easier to drop a nuke then bring about world peace.
    I agree warmonger is the easiest strategy, partially because it is clearly the strategy the AI cannot compete with, except on levels like deity.

    I think lietkynes post is on the money. The AI does not build a navy and cannot attack any city across water, period. Where I shake my head is that CIV 5 was able to do this. I know CIV 6 is different in many ways, but so much so that it has lost any ability to use a navy?

    Maybe I will try a pangaea game, just to see if it can do better. I really don't want to go back to CIV 5.

  22. #22
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    The Ai Builds a navy on deity, although does not use it effectively, and it definitely does not comprehend massive shore bombardment.

    The Ai cannot make choices as well as a human. That is why you need to play on higher levels that King, so that is inability to choose is offset by its ability to choose everything.

    I do think the path out of this particular aversion the AI has to building military units is to tune the warmonger penalty so that it has teeth. I.e. once a warmonger is identified, the AI builds massive military if warmonger is a neighbor. Large military if on continent, and some navy if warmonger is on separate continent.

    Of course, Need a little more flexibility in warmonger assessment. Taking one City state should be more than swallowing a civ when warmongering is nil, and less than launching a single surprise attack when warmongering is moderate. And once you acquire territory while warmongering is not free, everyone should be on guard.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    I agree warmonger is the easiest strategy
    Yup. This is the problem with Civ5 and Civ6. Because the AI cannot handle 1UPT, a human player can wipe out any AI in tactical battle. That means that the strategic part doesn't matter. You can do a very poor job strategically, make mistakes upon mistakes. It doesn't matter, all you have to do to win is declare war and thrash the stupid combat AI, victory guaranteed. Basically Civ is dead as a serious strategy game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Hall View Post
    The AI does not build a navy and cannot attack any city across water, period. Where I shake my head is that CIV 5 was able to do this.
    The AI does build a Navy, but it cannot use it.
    Civ5 was the same to be honest, with 2-3 Frigates you could kill a fleet of a dozen AI Frigates.
    Launching a successful amphibious assault from another continent is something that is completely outside of the realm of possibility for Civ6 AI. And to a lesser extent that is also true for Civ5 AI. The last Civ game with a competent naval AI was Civ4.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShuShu62 View Post
    The Ai cannot make choices as well as a human. That is why you need to play on higher levels
    I agree that the AI needs to cheat to be competitive. But this is no excuse for the fact that the AI in Civ gets worse with every new game. Civ4 AI was way better than Civ5. And Civ5 AI is way better than Civ6. Firaxis is going backwards

  25. #25
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    I would love a surprise attack that consist of a real surprise instead of the AI amassing their forces right on your border, just how hard is it for the ai to have their army a step or two back when declaring a surprise war? I've only got surprised war once and that was because I was in the middle of a war with another nation to my North and not paying attention to my South, on the plus side at least I can't complain about the AI resending a friend request when it really wants to attack. It's kind of sad that joint wars are usually more surprising and unexpected then surprise wars.

    On a totally unrelated note: I love how the true start world map chose only eastern civs, so Toronto, La Venta, and Beuno Aires had a whole 2 continents to themselves. I don't appreciate picking Norway and having Russia pop up right next to me though, even if that did solve my whole need to worry about a Cossack army. I'm even less sure how both Arabia, Egypt, and Kongo managed to fit into Africa.
    Last edited by Pika Dusk; 03-20-2017 at 09:21 PM.

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