Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Idea - Match Tactics

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    143

    Idea - Match Tactics

    I know that Fighting Styles have been hit or miss in prior games. But I think there needs to be something in place that makes Superstars feel unique. So I have done some thinking, and thought of a way that adds some strategy to the matches, without imposing too many limitations. They are Match Tactics. To explain this, I’m using the PS4 Controller layout.

    ** Buttons
    The first thing that needs to be done is alter the control layout slightly. Currently, L2 is the run button, which in my opinion is useless more often than not. L1 is used to pick up items, tag, and move in and out of the ring. Finally, R1 is used for Limb Targeting, and for setting up OMG Spots.

    The run button would be completely removed from the standard layout. Instead, the game would judge distance between you and your opponent. If you are out of range for a normal strike or grapple, you will automatically perform a running attack by pressing X or . This new feature would not enable outside dives or spring boards.
    And R1 will no longer automatically be a limb targeting move.

    L2 will now be used to exit/enter the ring, picking up objects, and tagging.
    L1 and R1 will become the buttons you use to trigger your First and Second Tactic.

    Using OMG Moments would now be holding down both L1 and R1 at the same time.

    ** Using Match Tactics
    So using Match Tactics would be very similar to how you would use Limb Targeting. By holding the L1 or R1 button, (from now on, I will only write “L1” instead of “L1 or R1”) the face buttons ( X, O, , ) may offer new types of attacks, depending on the tactic and your position.

    Each Superstar would have five (or another number) different Match Tactics in their move set, with two being default options for L1 and R1. On the superstar selection screen, you could choose to swap out a default Match Tactic for a different one in your set.

    Through Match Tactics, in addition to the standard strike and grapples offered through the face buttons, each superstar could have up to eight new strikes or grapples. Limb Targeting would still be a part of game, through Match Tactics, however, broken down into four categories: Head Targeting, Arm Targeting, Torso Targeting, and Legs Targeting.

    If you are Charlotte, and you want to set-up for your Figure 8, the current Limb Target system forces you to enter a Front Facelock, then use the same leg target move over and over. This system allows Charlotte to have Leg Targeting as a Match Tactic, and will offer four leg targets moves from a standing position, and four more from a ground position. Pressing L1 to activate her Leg Targeting could also allow for an extra move in the corner, or against the rope. Pressing it while holding a weapon could make the weapon swing low, at the legs.

    Match Tactics can do more than just target a body part though. Here some other tactics that can completely customize how each Superstar feels in the ring.

    - Rule Breaker – From an attack position, press L1 and a face button to perform an illegal move, such as a hair pull or low blow. While in a pin or submission, pressing L1 allows you to grab the tights or ropes. Getting caught doing one of these moves could get you a warning, or get you disqualified. On the plus side, and move like an Eye Rake will prevent your opponent from reversing your next move.

    - Educated Feet – Press L1 to perform additional kick strikes.

    - Pure Striker – Press L1 to perform additional punch combos.

    - High Flyer – Press L1 on the top rope to perform additional high risk moves.

    - Perfect Set-up – Superstars can have two Signature Moves and two Finishers. This tactic allows the Superstar to have up to four additional Signature Moves, and best of all, you don't need to have a Signature Icon to perform them. Landing the move gives you an automatic Finisher, but if your opponent counters, he gets that Finisher. Each move can only be used once per match.

    - Submission Specialist – Press L1 to perform additional submission holds.

    - Wear Down Submissions – Press L1 to perform wear down submissions, as seen in 2K17. If both players have the Wear Down Submission tactic active, the defending superstar can counter into a wear down submission of his own if he wins the mini-game.

    - Chain Grappling – From a standing position, press L1 and a face button to start a chain grapple sequence, starting from an offensive position, not a Collar-Elbow Tie-Up. If the defender has the Chain Grappling tactic active, winning the mini-game will continue the chain. If the defending superstar does not have the Chain Grappling tactic active and wins the mini-game, the chain will be broken.

    - Suplex City – While Limb Target tactics and the Rule Breaker tactics combines L1 and a face button to allow for four different moves, Suplex City works much more simply. Just press L1 and you will hit your opponent with a German Suplex. While it seems limited, it will not only make Brock Lesnar more realistic, but because the German Suplex is tied to one button, the crowd could keep count of how many Suplexes you actually do.

    - Free Run – As mentioned earlier, attempting a strike or grapple from a distance will automatically trigger a running attack, so the use of a run button is limited. However, for high flyers who like to perform running dives and running springboard attacks, the Free Run tactic would be required (unless you have the dives set as an OMG Move that is). Simply press L1 and run all you want.
    If the ability to run up ladders, and to run and jump off the steel steps or a set up chair was added to the game, you need Free Run for that too.

    - Custom Weapon Wheel – Why does the entire roster have access to a sledgehammer or a baseball bat? Chairs are freely found around the announce table. Kendo sticks are common under a WWE ring, for some strange reason. But what of the other, more unique items? They are typically placed there in advance by a devious superstar. Triple H, for example places a sledgehammer under the ring, in the event of a desperate situation.
    The Custom Weapon Wheel tactic allows each Superstar to assign four special weapons to his own customize weapon wheel, and with this tactic, pressing L1 and a face button, with a Finisher Stored, will allow you to use one of your special weapons in any match type, not just Extreme Rules. Do you want to come equipped with an assortment of goodies, or stash away four of the same item?

    - Help Me – Pressing L1 and a face button allows the player to control what actions his manager does at ringside.

    - Save Me – Pressing L1 will automatically cause one of your allies to interfere in the match, causing a DQ. To use this tactic, your Superstar will need to have at least one ally programmed in the Edit Superstars menu.

    Is this a feature that you think would help or hurt the match mechanics? Maybe you like certain tactics more than others? Let me know what you think.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    °~°*GEOMETRIC SCREAMING*●~●
    Posts
    1,146
    Or to make Superstars feel unique, you could give them unique movement animations, stances, etc., as described here: https://forums.2k.com/showthread.php...ndividual-Feel

    I get what you're going for, but it seems convoluted, plus a lot of the things you're suggesting have either already been in the current game (Managerial help, I know was in 2k14 if you knew what to do, idk if it has been in since, but I do know it needs some improvement. Chain grappling, working holds, etc), were in the past SvR games (Rule Breaker), unnecessary (Suplex City. This would only be good for Lesnar, Angle and Beniot and Tazz CAWs, and I believe that it already has its own mechanic) or just overall make a complicated system out of things things that don't really need to be touched. Plus using a finisher to use a weapon? When I can just knock the ref out, pull out the tool and then knock a sucker out? Really?

    One thing I would suggest for 2k is to bring back the old SvR elements of Heel/Face, but rather than choosing it in the selection menu, just basing it off what alignment you have a superstar set as. Make the heels take liberties, argue with the ref, work dirty, etc.
    http://formulagrappling.boards.net/

    4-5 more new members to go LIVE! Sign up now and get ready for action!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,315
    the current is better

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    in front of a computer.
    Posts
    355
    sometimes simple is better. the current playstyle and control scheme is simple, but it is good. this sounds a bit too complicated for my liking. and I am sure people who want the weapon wheel in all matches do not want it limited like this. don't fix what ain't broke.
    you talk about John 3:16 - AUSTIN 3:16 SAYS I JUST WHIPPED YOUR ASS!
    Celebrating 20 years: BREAK IT DOWN!
    And that's the bottom line 'cause Stone Cold said so!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    6,879
    Quote Originally Posted by elric6 View Post
    the current is better
    Quote Originally Posted by SCSA fan View Post
    sometimes simple is better. the current playstyle and control scheme is simple, but it is good. this sounds a bit too complicated for my liking. and I am sure people who want the weapon wheel in all matches do not want it limited like this. don't fix what ain't broke.
    Completely agree with both of you. Specially this, this right here is one of the biggest truths in the world.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,211
    I think this is a brilliant post. You have some great ideas and the post is well-structured. I'd definitely play using this system with one exception.

    My only disagreement would be scrapping the run button, when a lot of offense depends on it such as running grapples/strikes, springboard attacks, or diving attacks to the outside. Why not instead of scrapping the run button, we run by holding the L2 button instead? That way you're not trimming the movesets down and can still implement everything you suggested.
    Follow My WWE 2K17 Creations on PSN: TyrantCreations & Tyrant185

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Posts
    1,249
    I can see what you're going for and there are some really good ideas in here, however I wish we could achieve something like this without sacrificing the perfect control scheme we already have. No offence, but making free-running (plus rest holds) an Ability is worse than making top-rope diving, pin combos, and environmental damage Skills/Abilities. This is both expanding and limiting at the same time.

    I do agree that the limb targeting system needs to be vastly expanded upon (in actual WWE matches, when a wrestler spots an injured limb, they focus on attacking it with different moves, not just one) (plus, WHY CAN'T WE TARGET THE TORSO/BACK) with increased side-effects, but instead maybe just make it so that you can use limb targeting moves without front facelock grappling (includes weapon limb targeting) and increase the variety of limb targeting moves for each limb (preferably 4).

    BTW, I don't really get what is Perfect Set-Up. From what I've read, it basically gives you 4 more Signatures (totalling up to 6 Signatures) which you don't need to have a Signature Icon/enough momentum to do but still functions like an actual Signature (you get/lose the finisher anyway)? I dunno, but doesn't that sound game-breaking?

    IMO, you could turn most of these into Skills anyway, especially the Tactics which give/allow you (to do) additional strikes/moves, and the Rule Breaker tactic. The Save Me tactic sounds really cool and unique though.
    Last edited by The MoneyMaker; 07-17-2017 at 08:10 AM.
    The Right Hand of Destruction slays the Beast.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    °~°*GEOMETRIC SCREAMING*●~●
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by The MoneyMaker View Post
    I can see what you're going for and there are some really good ideas in here, however I wish we could achieve something like this without sacrificing the perfect control scheme we already have. No offence, but making free-running (plus rest holds) an Ability is worse than making top-rope diving, pin combos, and environmental damage Skills/Abilities. This is both expanding and limiting at the same time.

    I do agree that the limb targeting system needs to be vastly expanded upon (in actual WWE matches, when a wrestler spots an injured limb, they focus on attacking it with different moves, not just one) (plus, WHY CAN'T WE TARGET THE TORSO/BACK) with increased side-effects, but instead maybe just make it so that you can use limb targeting moves without front facelock grappling (includes weapon limb targeting) and increase the variety of limb targeting moves for each limb (preferably 4).

    BTW, I don't really get what is Perfect Set-Up. From what I've read, it basically gives you 4 more Signatures (totalling up to 6 Signatures) which you don't need to have a Signature Icon/enough momentum to do but still functions like an actual Signature (you get/lose the finisher anyway)? I dunno, but doesn't that sound game-breaking?

    IMO, you could turn most of these into Skills anyway, especially the Tactics which give/allow you (to do) additional strikes/moves, and the Rule Breaker tactic. The Save Me tactic sounds really cool and unique though.
    Having seen something you posted in another thread, the OP's idea sounds like SvR 2006's customizable grapple categories, but part of a much more complicated system.
    http://formulagrappling.boards.net/

    4-5 more new members to go LIVE! Sign up now and get ready for action!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by The MoneyMaker View Post
    I can see what you're going for and there are some really good ideas in here, however I wish we could achieve something like this without sacrificing the perfect control scheme we already have. No offence, but making free-running (plus rest holds) an Ability is worse than making top-rope diving, pin combos, and environmental damage Skills/Abilities. This is both expanding and limiting at the same time.

    I do agree that the limb targeting system needs to be vastly expanded upon (in actual WWE matches, when a wrestler spots an injured limb, they focus on attacking it with different moves, not just one) (plus, WHY CAN'T WE TARGET THE TORSO/BACK) with increased side-effects, but instead maybe just make it so that you can use limb targeting moves without front facelock grappling (includes weapon limb targeting) and increase the variety of limb targeting moves for each limb (preferably 4).

    BTW, I don't really get what is Perfect Set-Up. From what I've read, it basically gives you 4 more Signatures (totalling up to 6 Signatures) which you don't need to have a Signature Icon/enough momentum to do but still functions like an actual Signature (you get/lose the finisher anyway)? I dunno, but doesn't that sound game-breaking?

    IMO, you could turn most of these into Skills anyway, especially the Tactics which give/allow you (to do) additional strikes/moves, and the Rule Breaker tactic. The Save Me tactic sounds really cool and unique though.
    Regarding the rest holds - The game already limits who can use them. Or I suck at using them. One or the other.

    Regarding Perfect Set-Up (best name I could think of) - It's basically a move you can do once a match that automatically gives you a Finisher Icon. Think of it as the Comeback sequence, for people who don't have comebacks, or that can be used in any situation. I never said all my idea were great, lol. For this one, I was thinking of guys like Cesaro and Undertaker who have so many unique moves.

    Regarding turning them into skills - I think the L1 and R1 buttons should do different things for different superstars. Animations do so much, I don't want superstars to just look different or punch different. I want them to actually play different. All superstars can have all the same abilities and skills. That system isn't deep enough to really impact the game.

    Also, It's really about going into a match with a strategy. It's about creating a system that has you picking a plan A and a plan B to beat your opponent with. Daniel Bryan would normally use Arm Targeting, right? But against a monster like Braun Strowman, maybe changing strategies and attacking the legs is your better option.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    °~°*GEOMETRIC SCREAMING*●~●
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by swl1986 View Post
    Regarding the rest holds - The game already limits who can use them. Or I suck at using them. One or the other.

    Regarding Perfect Set-Up (best name I could think of) - It's basically a move you can do once a match that automatically gives you a Finisher Icon. Think of it as the Comeback sequence, for people who don't have comebacks, or that can be used in any situation. I never said all my idea were great, lol. For this one, I was thinking of guys like Cesaro and Undertaker who have so many unique moves.

    Regarding turning them into skills - I think the L1 and R1 buttons should do different things for different superstars. Animations do so much, I don't want superstars to just look different or punch different. I want them to actually play different. All superstars can have all the same abilities and skills. That system isn't deep enough to really impact the game.

    Also, It's really about going into a match with a strategy. It's about creating a system that has you picking a plan A and a plan B to beat your opponent with. Daniel Bryan would normally use Arm Targeting, right? But against a monster like Braun Strowman, maybe changing strategies and attacking the legs is your better option.
    The thing is though, a lot of wrestling is instinctive, so a wrestler may go into a match with a strategy, but anything can happen, so most strategies made by guys who strategize are based on what's most effective at the moment. Wrestling is a very different beast from real sports. Not to mention, I personally think that wrestling matches should never be thought out beforehand or require heavy thinking. All planning should begin at the ring of the bell and only require instinct and common sense.
    http://formulagrappling.boards.net/

    4-5 more new members to go LIVE! Sign up now and get ready for action!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,299
    The thing is this, under the current way the game is set up, you have absolute control over doing what you want. My only problem with the player is that certain actions (high flying) is relocated to an ability or special skill when so many do it that it's not special. The act of going to the too rope is not special by any means, yet it's a special skill for some reason. Now out of the springboard moves, every single high flyer dies them, sure the move changes but the fact that a certain style of wrestling does it (and not only limited to that style btw) that is in the game, and this gets puts off as special is beyond me. Submissions aren't a special ability for submission wrestlers, powerful slams aren't a special ability for powerhouse types, strikes aren't a special ability for brawler types and so on so forth.

    So basic wrestling maneuvers must now take up and waste a slot for something because people don't want the option to run towards the corner or ropes. But that's besides the point. Playing out how you play is fine as is (minus my gripes) the problem I see is in the AI. Under this current system the lack of AI individualism has them all wrestling like CENA with different special abilities here and there. It's not a button layout issue. It's a AI programming issue. We need adjustable CPU logic like the fire pro series or NBA 2k series.

    Even under your button layout idea, people online or offline that want to abuse certain bugs, glitches, and oversights will do so. So you can't count them. But the idea shouldn't be to limit how people want to play their game. But changing the way the HBK AI behaves as opposed to the Andre the Giant AI should be the goal here. They wrestle the same, same move choices made overall. Just stats switch up certain options but overall each AI functions the exact same. It's the same "guy" controlling each AI the exact same. Just that since Andre has a lower stamina gauge and movement speed stat than HBK he does it less, if you played enough you can see that the AI thinks about it in the exact same spots. There are certain pauses and delays when stats change and abilities and skills are different. But ability A is done in the same spot no matter what ability it is. This is the issue. Not the player
    Go Ahead..... Google Graphix Godbody......you know you want to. EEEEEWWWWWWW! I didn't do what you think I did, ya nasty!!! I post songs I make.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    °~°*GEOMETRIC SCREAMING*●~●
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by GraphixGodbody730 View Post
    The thing is this, under the current way the game is set up, you have absolute control over doing what you want. My only problem with the player is that certain actions (high flying) is relocated to an ability or special skill when so many do it that it's not special. The act of going to the too rope is not special by any means, yet it's a special skill for some reason. Now out of the springboard moves, every single high flyer dies them, sure the move changes but the fact that a certain style of wrestling does it (and not only limited to that style btw) that is in the game, and this gets puts off as special is beyond me. Submissions aren't a special ability for submission wrestlers, powerful slams aren't a special ability for powerhouse types, strikes aren't a special ability for brawler types and so on so forth.

    So basic wrestling maneuvers must now take up and waste a slot for something because people don't want the option to run towards the corner or ropes. But that's besides the point. Playing out how you play is fine as is (minus my gripes) the problem I see is in the AI. Under this current system the lack of AI individualism has them all wrestling like CENA with different special abilities here and there. It's not a button layout issue. It's a AI programming issue. We need adjustable CPU logic like the fire pro series or NBA 2k series.

    Even under your button layout idea, people online or offline that want to abuse certain bugs, glitches, and oversights will do so. So you can't count them. But the idea shouldn't be to limit how people want to play their game. But changing the way the HBK AI behaves as opposed to the Andre the Giant AI should be the goal here. They wrestle the same, same move choices made overall. Just stats switch up certain options but overall each AI functions the exact same. It's the same "guy" controlling each AI the exact same. Just that since Andre has a lower stamina gauge and movement speed stat than HBK he does it less, if you played enough you can see that the AI thinks about it in the exact same spots. There are certain pauses and delays when stats change and abilities and skills are different. But ability A is done in the same spot no matter what ability it is. This is the issue. Not the player
    Yeah, individualism for each character has things that can be done so that mostly everyone feels different to the player, but apart from all the mostly aesthetic stuff that can be done, for the A.I, it really comes down to each wrestler having their own individual code. I never mentioned it in the thread I made because I was focusing on the player's side of things, but for the A.I, that's the heart of the issue. Hopefully 2k can do something like what the Fire Pro Wrestling series does, but better considering 2k is a multi-million or billion dollar company full of professionals.
    http://formulagrappling.boards.net/

    4-5 more new members to go LIVE! Sign up now and get ready for action!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,299
    Quote Originally Posted by SladeX View Post
    Yeah, individualism for each character has things that can be done so that mostly everyone feels different to the player, but apart from all the mostly aesthetic stuff that can be done, for the A.I, it really comes down to each wrestler having their own individual code. I never mentioned it in the thread I made because I was focusing on the player's side of things, but for the A.I, that's the heart of the issue. Hopefully 2k can do something like what the Fire Pro Wrestling series does, but better considering 2k is a multi-million or billion dollar company full of professionals.
    I've been asking for adjustable CPU logic for the roster and CAW'S and a simplified one for teams for years. Every year I explain it using the NBA 2k series format to show how it is entirely possible
    Go Ahead..... Google Graphix Godbody......you know you want to. EEEEEWWWWWWW! I didn't do what you think I did, ya nasty!!! I post songs I make.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    2,900
    Really good ideas. This would finally make this game play like a real wrestling game.

    sometimes simple is better. the current playstyle and control scheme is simple, but it is good.
    Disagree. It isn't.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomato! View Post
    Really good ideas. This would finally make this game play like a real wrestling game.



    Disagree. It isn't.
    it is
    10 chars

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    2,900
    It plays like an arcade game. Way too simple.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomato! View Post
    It plays like an arcade game. Way too simple.
    no it doesn't the control scheme is similar but it plays different than last gen

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomato! View Post
    Really good ideas. This would finally make this game play like a real wrestling game.



    Disagree. It isn't.

    Would a real wrestling game be more fun ?

    It seems like the OP wants the gambit system from final fantasy 12 for superstars , well i see the upside it would take total control away from the player cause it just giving the AI set paterns to follow and nothing else

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    2,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Jpopfan13 View Post
    Would a real wrestling game be more fun ?

    It seems like the OP wants the gambit system from final fantasy 12 for superstars , well i see the upside it would take total control away from the player cause it just giving the AI set paterns to follow and nothing else
    Sounds really great imo. Makes it really a realistic game.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    in front of a computer.
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomato! View Post
    Sounds really great imo. Makes it really a realistic game.
    in my opinion, too much realism takes away the fun. you gotta find a balance between realism and fun.
    you talk about John 3:16 - AUSTIN 3:16 SAYS I JUST WHIPPED YOUR ASS!
    Celebrating 20 years: BREAK IT DOWN!
    And that's the bottom line 'cause Stone Cold said so!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    2,900
    Imo too much arcade gameplay takes away the fun. If they really want the game to be as realistic as possible these match tactics would be great.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by SCSA fan View Post
    in my opinion, too much realism takes away the fun. you gotta find a balance between realism and fun.
    and i think 2k has been able to achieve it so far

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    °~°*GEOMETRIC SCREAMING*●~●
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomato! View Post
    Imo too much arcade gameplay takes away the fun. If they really want the game to be as realistic as possible these match tactics would be great.
    What do you mean arcade gameplay? Nothing about the game is arcade-y apart form the base elements of gameplay/controls that have always been a thing. Not to mention, people should still be able to play the game however they want within the game's limits. 2k is doing that pretty good so far.
    http://formulagrappling.boards.net/

    4-5 more new members to go LIVE! Sign up now and get ready for action!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •