You mean to tell me they're making a Bioshock TWO?
You mean to tell me they're making a Bioshock TWO?
Thanks Elizabeth.Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
Here's hoping Securom isn't needed for Steam or any digital version
Like I said in the other thread, I can live with SecuRom and limited installs, I guess 2K has a right to try and fight piracy in any way they can, and I'd bet good money that there will be some sort of workaround for the installations limit in a couple years tops --but GFLW is a useless piece of bloatware that has never done any actual good to anyone ever, it actually created problems in a few games, and at best it's just redundant for those of us using Steam.
I dare John Fitzgerald GamesForWindowsLive himself to come here and give me just one bleeding reason why I should want my game to be stained with their crap >=(
And should Bioshock 2 ever bring some kind of DLC, that's a whole other potential can of worms, since I guess the only way to get it will be through Microsoft Points toy-money system which, besides being a stupid idea, it can only be used in about a dozen countries.
For example, I've had every penny lined up to buy Fallout 3's DLC for months now, but I can't buy it because my money must have some sort of third-world country cooties and Microsoft doesn't want it.
All stupidity aside: Like I said in the other thread, I'm still gonna buy Bioshock 2 because the first one sits comfortably among my top-5 favorite games ever, but having to put up with GFWL yet again is like a personal insult.
Hmmm, this is all a bit confusing.
According to this: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/106/1062217p1.html
there is a limit of 15 activations.
So I guess the basic question is:
If I buy retail, are there any form of limits to activations ?
If I buy from Steam, are there any form of limits to activations ?
I certainly hope there are no limits, as a matter of principle I will not purchase any game that dictates how many times I can install on my system. I was gutted with the limits imposed on the first game, and by the time the activation limits were removed it was to late, I'd already borrowed the 360 version from my brother and played it to death, lol. I'd hate to have to do the same with the second game
The Games for Windows Live key you get has 15 activations on it. If you reach 16, contacting Microsoft will get the key reset. (This doesn't limit the number of computers you put the on. It is just 15 activations.) This is a number set by Microsoft. We went with this option because we wanted to go with non-ssa keys, because we felt that was better for you guys all around.Hmmm, this is all a bit confusing.
According to this: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/106/1062217p1.html
there is a limit of 15 activations.
So I guess the basic question is:
If I buy retail, are there any form of limits to activations ?
If I buy from Steam, are there any form of limits to activations ?
I certainly hope there are no limits, as a matter of principle I will not purchase any game that dictates how many times I can install on my system. I was gutted with the limits imposed on the first game, and by the time the activation limits were removed it was to late, I'd already borrowed the 360 version from my brother and played it to death, lol. I'd hate to have to do the same with the second game
What do you mean by activations? So everytime we format our computer, and we play Bioshock 2, we have to activate it?
I'm pretty sure she means that you can install ONE copy of Bio2, on 15 different computers. The CD-Key works only 15 times on different computer.
Thats what I think it means, Liz feel free to correct me
Yeah, activation goes hand-in-hand with installation. No activation, installation is worth bupkis.
haha, so instead of activations that can be revoked, it's simply a number of activations, and upon the 16th time you have to actually contact them in order to keep playing it????, where it the benefit.
15 revokable activations is better than 5, but these aren't revokable, this is just a total number of installs that you can do before you have to ask them to pretty please allow the game to keep working, there may as well be a subscription model because it isn't going to have a very long lifespan if apon the 16th and 17th time, you have to phone for each activation as it only gives you 1 activation back.
User friendly indeed.
And what happens if/when Microsoft decide it's not worthwhile to keep running GFWL?
I'll inquire with Microsoft on the particulars of revocation, but from the meetings I've had with them, no one makes you beg for a key.You call them up, they verify you bought the game (which is simple, since you have the game after all) and then you get your keys. I will also verify it's not just one at a time, although I'm fairly certain it is not.
It sounds to me like they could have chosen this, or an SSA-key system. This is vastly preferable, believe me.
I'll also ask about that - but as I said with BioShock, I'm confident that we'll keep the game around. In the past, we have made sure, even if digital distribution partners go away, our customers still have access to their games.
That's right - we didn't want ssa-keys if we could help it.
Another reassuring thing to hear. I'm sure 2K won't leave us twisting in the wind.
That's not their concern dude, once they get the money they're good to go!,
they'll top up the coffers with some DLC money and we can just deal with it because we're pissant consumers, and we are all being treated as pirates, I don't know about you but i'm offended by that.
Like I said before, the pirates will still get their version, only we will get screwed over, I don't even buy games on digital distribution because I loathe putting all my eggs in someone else's basket.
Even the console version of games have copy protection, and just now I read on N4G.com that mass effect was leaked to torrent sites, so it is no sign of protection at all, disk check only =happy consumers
But why can't we just have unlimited activations? GFWL - fine, that's for achievements and activation, but why limit the activations?
Ahh shucks
I'm gonna sit this one out, I remember all the fuss around 3 years ago with the first game and can't be doing with getting involved with all that again, thanks again for the info
Last edited by mark_t50; 01-20-2010 at 02:58 PM.
Why require online activation at all (except for online features ofc)?
Well, they're essentially unlimited, right? You just need to reset them with Microsoft.
This.
Bioshock 1 has unlimited activations, why can't GFWL?
My friend dealt with microsoft support for GFWL games in the past and they had no clue what the hell was going on when he asked for his key to be reset.
and what happens when microsofts tech support just says 'no'.
You don't own a game when you have to do that, like I said there can be no "it's to stop piracy" B.S because it doesn't, it only affects the end user, who pays for the game.
Bioshock 1 had unlimited activations still about a year later wasn't it?
But this is using microsofts service and they are the ones who set the install limit, it cannot be changed just for this game, you have to play by microsofts rules with GFWL, and seeing as they have been more detrimental to pc gaming than anyone else, they don't deserve any support for their inferior DD service.
Well when this happens to you, you can take it up with 2K and maybe get a tasty lawsuit out of it. Bottom line: It's unrealistic to assume all corporations are out to get you. They may have issues of negligence, and sometimes ignorance, but they usually do want to satisfy the customer.
That having been said, it's probably a lengthy and irritating process, not because of evil minimum wage help line employees who want to stop you from ever playing your entitlement box, but because Microsoft has notoriously incompetent help and labyrinthine automated telephone services.
Yes but it still had them eventually. Its the point i was (poorly) trying to make, GFWL is more robust system than securom was, with online needed for profiles, saving, etc, why can't it just have unlimited from the get go.
Microsoft support can and will say NO from time to time, i've had MSDN and technet keys reactivated from them and they do say NO and you have to wait and phone back or try argue some sense into the clueless person saying NO. Not to mention my experience from phoning them up with my 7 times dead 360.
Exactly.
We PAID 2K games our money, what does having activations limit solve or prevent?
All it DOES do is piss off the PAYING customer.
Please please please take away the activations limit.
It does NOT help anything or anyone.
Last edited by army123; 01-20-2010 at 03:13 PM.
I'm the head of 2K Games customer support. If someone says no to you, get their name and your call ID and come to me.
I'll fix it.
Sorry can't buy this game in its present state:
1. GFWL
2. Securom, 5 activations
3. $72 USD in Australia via Steam (☺☺☺?)
No sale. Maybe if it was $40 USD in Australia via Steam.
Otherwise not putting layer upon layer of DRM and BS that can go wrong and reduces my FPS and messes with my PC on my PC
I don't think that's true, there is no consumer right that says that they have to re-activate it, i'm sure in the EULA it will have a clause saying that it is at their discretion as to whether they re-activate it.
@2K Elizabeth
That's good to hear, and thankyou,
It is still a massive inconvenience.
Last edited by dchalfont; 01-20-2010 at 03:15 PM.
I want to clear this up: SecuROM for the retail version is ONLY a disc check, and there are NO limits for it. As for GFWL, there are 15 activations that can be reset if you reach the cap. There is no 5 activation limit anywhere with this game - in any version whatsoever.
It seems publishers get obsessed with piracy rates when they should be focusing on their customers/actual sales as those are what really matter. People pirate for a lot of reasons & I would imagine that very few pirated copies are "lost sales" given the sort of reasons people usually pirate (mostly: can't afford, cheapskate/wouldn't buy anyway, bought already and want to avoid harsh copy protection). Looking at other games that have much less restrictive copy protection it's obvious that the presence of harsh copy protection only serves to harm the customers.
Same here, I exclusively buy retail. I was talking to a friend about this earlier; Steam would be *perfect* if you could buy a retail copy of a Steam game and install + play it offline using the disc... but then activate/register it online with your Steam account to get DLC/online features & play without needing the disc. Best of both worlds that way: no problem if Steam is unavailable for whatever reason (just use the disc check) and the convenience of being able to install/patch/play without the disc/etc. when it is available.Like I said before, the pirates will still get their version, only we will get screwed over, I don't even buy games on digital distribution because I loathe putting all my eggs in someone else's basket.
It's only a matter of time before they start making console games phone home & check for modchips before they let you play them IMOEven the console version of games have copy protection, and just now I read on N4G.com that mass effect was leaked to torrent sites, so it is no sign of protection at all, disk check only =
wow, i happily paid $150 on my pre order for the LE from Eb games and here you are complaining about $72
Let's try and keep this talk out of this thread - everyone is entitled to their own opinion and reasons for wanting or not wanting a game.
Ok let me say I'm new here I just registered about 5 min ago.
I don't know what or how the methods of activation are but I would like to tell you now that I use steam for everything and only steam. Bio 1 looked really awesome but I didn't get it because of the hassles of activation and the limit.
Then It came out on steam I sent them an email asking about activation and they said no activation limit so I got it.
I would have gotten Bio2 on steam if
1 I knew about it earlier and
2 I can't get special edition on steam that I already preordered.
It seams really pointless to download all this stuff like windows live ect. for just one game when I'm only going to use it for this game. It's just dead software that bloats my hard drive when I'm not playing it.
Why can't we just have steam support for retail version?
Also on a side note how would my steam friends find me on a server for online.
The activation limit is from Microsoft, not 2K.
Games like Fallout 3 and the new Batman game have GFWL, so you'll probably have to use it later anyway.
The retail game can't be activated on Steam like Modern Warfare 2, can it?
Last edited by Rapture_Reminder; 01-20-2010 at 03:29 PM.
GAME.com.au is the way to go dude
bioshock 2 = $74, AVP= $79, BFBC2= $79, supcom2= $82, all of those games are $99+ from EB games
Elizabeth,
First - I just want to say thanks for trying to clear this up for all of us. I can only imagine the headache it must be causing.
My question is why did 2k decide to go with GFWL at all? Especially for the multi-player achievements? Steam is a vastly superior in every way.
I seriously dislike GFWL and sadly will be missing out on achievements, etc because GWFL has already messed up one computer...
~LoA
yes but game doesn't have LE, or extra two characters. Believe me i checked before going to Eb.
The problem is that when buying a game, you're not actually owning it; rather owning a "license" to play it.
The same is true for all other software (such as Microsoft Windows).
Anyway, I think it's great that Elizabeth is taking such an active role in the community (very rare thing to see from Developers / Publishers these days).
Right then questions...
1. Is it possible for you (2K Games) to actually patch this "activation" limitation out of Bioshock (if wanted to)?
2. If yes to Question 1, then is it safe to assume that such a patch will be released within a year or 2 of the game's release (as done with Bioshock)?
Games for Windows - LIVE has never gave me much trouble, but I do find it "awkward" and unnecessary.
The thing I don't understand is why on earth are people so upset about a 15-limit activation (assuming this is correct)?
Realistically, only the "hardcore" hardware enthusiasts will ever come close to this limit (unless you have extremely bad luck with hardware failures and/or viruses).
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