Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
This implies I need to be connected to the inernet to uninstall it aswell as install it? otherwise I dont see the effect that uninstalling would have
This implies I need to be connected to the inernet to uninstall it aswell as install it? otherwise I dont see the effect that uninstalling would have
Thanks Elizabeth, it won't stop the ☺☺☺☺☺ing but it might give some people some relief.
Now you just have to post the same thing in the other 30 threads about this issue.
The ones I feel sorry for are the brothers and friends who were hoping for that 3rd install for free. they might have to pay to play or something.
btw if I didnt sound really grateful just then for your feedback its because Im a gnats whisker away from giving up caring about getting a big daddy toy and cancelling my preorder aswell.
I cant recall anyone calling it hardware footprinting personally, and as for it being alarmist the fact that several people have allready hit the limit of installs seems to fly in the face of your claim that if we use it normally we wont run into problems. Normally? yeah well, im having difficulty getting annoyed
I take it this also can be seen as a sign that 2k has no intention of removing securrom from bioshock?
Thanks for the clarification Elizabeth. While I myself would have preferred a "you get x installs per y weeks/months", this will work too. I guess I'll just have to make sure I uninstall Bioshock whenever I want to reinstall Windows.
btw if I didnt sound really grateful just then for your feedback its because Im a gnats whisker away from giving up caring about getting a big daddy toy and returning my preorder aswell.
I cant recall anyone calling it hardware footprinting personally, and as for it being alarmist the fact that several people have allready hit the limit of installs seems to fly in the face of your claim that if we use it normally we wont run into problems. Normally? yeah well, im having difficulty getting annoyed
I take it this also can be seen as a sign that 2k has no intention of removing securrom from bioshock?
Well, it would waste some more of your time
sigh sorry for the double post, I love these database errors
we get that. What we're really annoyed about is the lifetime 2 activation limit.
I'd like to be crystal clear on this - if we uninstall the game on one PC, we get one 'install credit' to install it once more on a fresh install? It's 2 simultaneous installs total, but uninstalling from one PC will allow us to reinstall on a new one, or a fresh install of windows?second, you can uninstall and reinstall this game, and if, by chance, you have 2 computers you want to simultaneously play this game on, you also can do that.
Twice is NOT a lot of installs. Not even close. What about those poor sods that have hard-drive crashes? or have already wiped the windows install that had it installed? What if the internet connection to securerom fails when uninstalling, it's not exactly been super stable or available for installing!if by some chance you are reinstalling this game without uninstalling it first, a lot, there is a chance you may have to call securom and get a key, or deactivate some older installations.
Plus, securerom are redirecting people to 2K once they go past their 2 activations, not giving them an additional chance to reinstall.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6037
Even steam is affected
As long as you don't need to reinstall windows, right?but if you upgrade your hardware next week, you'll still be able to play the game.
Or people that have hardware crashes. Or people that didn't know they had to check in with the securerom system first before they can reinstall their computer. Or people who don't have an internet connection at time of uninstall.really, the only people who will be concerned about any of these security measures are those who are rapidly putting bioshock on many pcs... if you use the game as you normally do, you won't notice this at all.
Sorry, but this simply isn't good enough. PC gamers reinstall windows. A lot.
Often because windows doesn't cope at all well with new hardware. That people are encountering this on DAY ONE does not bode well for a lifetime of having to remember to check in and uninstall 'properly' first.
You are *selling* a product. Doctrine of first sale. It's my property, not yours once you've sold it to me. Adding additional restrictions such as 'only install twice' above and beyond copyright law after the contract of sale is completed is not legal. Seriously - this is grounds for a lawsuit.
If my copy hadn't already shipped, I'd be cancelling it. I will certainly be returning it for a refund if 2K continue to call this a non-issue, because you're flat out wrong on that.
Here is the official FAQ on the PC release, one you published yourself:
One-time? No, it's 2 checks per install (One for install, one for uninstall), and it of course is more checks the more times you install.Q: What does the internet activation entail? Why do you have it?
A: It's an anti-piracy measure that we unfortunately have to implement to curb illegal game distribution as best we can. It's a one time check and then you're done.
This part is true actuallyQ: Is there another way to activate the game if you don’t have internet at home?
A: No, you must have an internet connection to install and activate the game. It is part of the system requirements because of this.
No, unless you uninstall Bioshock before you reinstall windows, this will not work, what a convenience if you happen to have 40 or so titles secured like that.Q: Can you play the game if you have to reinstall windows after you have installed it once?
A: Yes, this is possible.
Elizabeth, thanks for your effort, but lies are not worth the effort, you have entitled yourself to the sweat of your brow.
So does this mean that we can install and activate whenever and wherever we want for as many times we want the game IF we have uninstalled the game before the next installment? If so then it's really fine by me
So does this mean that we can install and activate whenever and wherever we want for as many times we want the game IF we have uninstalled the game before the next installment? If so then it's really fine by me
what if tml my hdd crashes and i cant boot into windows,how do i uninstall it?
what if tml my whole PC goes missing, how do i uninstall it?
what if for some reason i cant connect to the securom servers, how do i uninstall it?
ANSWER ME!!!!!!!!!!!
So, basicly if someone installs the game, makes a full hard drive copy to an another hd, uninstalls the game and then copies it all back to the original drive, he can make hundred copies to his hundred computers? So how again this makes pirating or multiple copies impossible and is not just for annoying people?
Do they have international 24 hour call center(s) which can answer me in my own language?if by some chance you are reinstalling this game without uninstalling it first, a lot, there is a chance you may have to call securom and get a key, or deactivate some older installations.
How about, if I install my game 2 years from now and securom is in bankruptcy for lawsuits from their rootkit and EA has bought 2K, who will activate my installation? When operating costs from activation service will exceed money gained from selling new games, will some executive just close down the activations? Will there be patch for no activation at some day?but if you upgrade your hardware next week, you'll still be able to play the game.
I trust this whole uninstalling business is clearly stated on the package?if you revamp your system and need to reinstall bioshock, just uninstall it before you go through the overhaul, and then do your reinstall.
By saying "rapidly", I assume that amount of available insallations grows or renews over the time. Am I right here? Please, tell exactly how long it takes to installation amount to renew. I think it is vital information to your customers.really, the only people who will be concerned about any of these security measures are those who are rapidly putting bioshock on many pcs... if you use the game as you normally do, you won't notice this at all.
Please, answer my questions, I just want to be sure because this game is getting expensive to me (I already bought new hardware for this game).
Pirating does not work by buying 1 copie and going house to house and installing
the game 50 times.
Pirating works by getting rid of the activation
So this security will only affect the people who bought the game legaly.
So im srry but THAT IS A REASON TO GO PIRATE!!!
And every time you want to reinstall or uninstall, and every time you change anything in your computer,etc...
If your hard drive crash, or if the Securom server isn't available when you uninstall the game you lose an "installation slot", and let's not talk about those who live in Europe and who bought the US (or those who live outside and official region where the game is released) version will they have to phone Securom US every time they want to install a game they supposedly bought.
I am sorry if I sound harsh but I didn't say anything about the late PC demo release, I can understand the different release date for Europe and US, and I am not the kind to start calling other peoples names on a forum, but this is just going too far, protecting yourself from piracy is one thing but this is silly and pretty insulting for legit buyer I find, you manage to choose a protection method that is even less user friendly than the last Starforce, "congratulation". IMHO That's really begging for the game to be pirated.
And why is this Securom protection also used on the Steam version ? steam already have it's own copy protection that's a lot more user friendly than the extremist one you choose, why force Steam buyers to have to two different protections ?
I have waited years for Bioshock to be released, heck I even thought of buying it twice, once on Steam to be able to play it immediately and later the Collector edition to have all the goodies but now I will pass on both.
And if someday there is a patch that remove this stupid limitation, or better all of securom, from either the retail or the Steam version then I will consider buying the game.
Honestly I am more sad than angry, it's sad to see a potentially great games messed up by such a useless and paranoiac copy protection method, make me regret I haven't a Xbox.
So uninstalling the game, give us one credit back. Great ! Just have to think about uninstalling before my hard-drive / NIC card crashed or Windows get corrupted (as with any components that is use to build the "Authorisation request code" - which is indeed an hardware fingerprinting by the way).
Now about contacting SecuRom when the activation limit is reached because of our incompetence to understand your mysterious licensing rules, some have does that. SecuRom told them to contact YOU Take2; You'd better stop playing Table Tennis between you two and clearly tell WHO is supposed to handle this and HOW, and make the process fast and accessible 24/7.
Now about telling that people who encounter problems with your paranoid protection that they are "not normal" !! Reminds me when some publishers who have used StarForce treated their complaining customers to be pirates...
Take2 already has problem with financial authorities, US politics (and looney attorneys), one of its key game is banned, another one miss its christmas launch... Do you really need to alienate your customers as well???
Id like to also point out that the fact this system still at base relies on cd keys, its just as open to piracy as any other only with the added bonus of screwing over people who buy the game and find their key taken.
LeadS, maybe if you wern't such a smarmy, sarcastic prick you would get your questions answered. jesus.
Name 1 gaming company that has a 25hour international help line that speaks every god-damned language?
Securom wont be out of business, sony is backing them. And sony LOVES security.
rapidly installing would probably be best described as more installs than 1 person needs to have running at any given time. Jesus, are you installing this game on 15 pcs so everywhere you go you will never be more than 10 feet from it?
Just install it and have some fun. You people get all wound up about this crap for absolutly no reason.
INSTALL IT. PLAY IT. IF YOU EVER RUN INTO ANY OF THE PROBLEMS YOU ARE ALL SO SPAZZING OUT ABOUT, THEN COME POST ON THE FORUMS, UNTIL THEN ☺☺☺☺ AND ENJOY PLAYING THIS AWESOME GAME.
Well, I've just cancelled my order at gameplay
I understand that there are problems with piracy, but when things get taken to these extremes it is just wrong. The people who play the pirate copies will not have these problems, so why punish the paying customer ?
It is incorrect to assume that this will not affect legitimate customers, as has been hinted at. I'm a pc hardware enthusiast, I probably end up re-installing my OS about once a month and do multiple hardware upgrades, I don’t sit there and uninstall everything before a rebuild, it just gets wiped. A reinstall of an OS takes long enough without having to remember to uninstall things. The way this has been implemented is obviously already having an impact on your customers, thus proving something is wrong.
It is decisions like these, and the implementation of increasingly draconian copy protection systems that will result in the death of PC gaming. I hope 2KGames feel suitably ashamed of themselves for their contribution to the decline in PC gaming.
[QUOTE=splitfinity;125586]
Securom wont be out of business, sony is backing them. And sony LOVES security.
[quote]
Yes, Sony's rootkit reputation is just filling me with joy to find out that securerom on bioshock is also installing uninstallable registry keys and files.
[quote]
rapidly installing would probably be best described as more installs than 1 person needs to have running at any given time. Jesus, are you installing this game on 15 pcs so everywhere you go you will never be more than 10 feet from it?
[quote]
a 15 pc limit would be just about fine. In reality, it's a 2 install limit. And better hope you don't have a motherboard or hard-drive fault, or just forget to uninstall bioshock 'properly' before you wipe windows else you'll be down to 1 install. Heaven forbid you dual boot.
People already have run into this problem and securerom has basically told them to bugger off. If I install it that means I've lost my chance to get a refund when it DOES happen, as I can't return an open game. Elizabeth has already demonstrated that 2K don't consider this a problem, so what would be the point of 'spazzing' on the forum after the event? when it happens to me - which it will at some point, because I reinstall windows a lot - I'm already boned and 2K already have my money for a game I won't be able to play.INSTALL IT. PLAY IT. IF YOU EVER RUN INTO ANY OF THE PROBLEMS YOU ARE ALL SO SPAZZING OUT ABOUT, THEN COME POST ON THE FORUMS,
The only way they might change their mind on this is if they realise quite how pissed off we are at such a ludicrously low activation limit on something we *own*, and that it's costing them significant sales.
My second harddrive just died an hour ago. it was the drive I installed all of my games on. I have now replaced it with a spare drive which unfortunately is as old as the broken one.
Hardware DOES fail. What if that happens and my Bioshock installation was on that drive? Call a darn technical support hotline, probably even having to PAY for the call? No, thanks, that´s no solution.
Microsoft got it right at least on that issue, at least no long distance fees for an activation call and a system that works around the clock. Like it should.
No silly activation policy, just some re-activations sometimes if you change too much (never happened to me though).
I pay hard earned money for this. I demand a satisfactory solution that lets me use it like any other piece of software in my collection. If that cannot be found then I´ll have to refund it (probably directly through 2K and my lawyer since shops here don´t take back opened parcels).
Afterwards you can be sure that I´ll vent my negative feelings towards this company policy everywhere the Internet carries me. I´ll keep everyone I know from buying 2K games and tell them to spread the word.
If every disgruntled customer here does this, it may well have an impact on sales. Bad for the developers, I know (I was one myself some time ago, though not in the games business).
But the failure here lies strictly with the management which probably has been bullied by venture capital investors to "secure their investions".
And then they had to go for this *censored*.
Why didn´t they think of something cool? Like a USB dongle which is encrypted on first use with the users serial and activated over the net in a one-way process (Eprom). That way you could install the software on X pcs, but only play on one (that with the dongle).
If that thing looked cool, one might even add a little button to it so that when you press it it launches the game ;-)
But alas, something like this would probably cost 2$ per game, too expensive for those penny-counters. (IDE->Sata adaptors cost 2€/piece in HongKong, including SATA and power cables so...)
splitfinity, it has been 24 hours and people have installed it, played it, and are having problems. So they are here posting on the forums so that their voice is heard.
Like is said in my post a few messages up, I installed my copy on my Vista Partition and my XP Partition and I am already out of activations. One day and I am at the max. Knock on wood that nothing goes wrong, but I know I will have to reinstall again someday soon.
I dont care about the DRM they got on the disk its 2K prerogative. I dont support DRM so I dont buy products with them. But what pisses me off the most is that they did not put on the box in big red letters that read.
WARNING WE HAVE THIS ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ DRM ON THE DISK.
It would have saved people time and money if they did not want to deal with this.
The game is already cracked, so....er...well done 2K you are causing all your customers a lot of grief for nothing
If you want to take your annoyance out on someone/something, feel free to ban me
Well I don't like how they did this but at the same time I know hackers will get a work around. Thats all that matters to me. I bought the game and I'm enjoying it. If I ever decided I need to install it again and I don't have any activations I will do one of two things:
call the number provided and give my hardware ID key that is also provided and have them give me a new activation key (just like Windows XP).
Or I'll crack it.
Either way works.
All you have to do is click the "manual" button and contact the support people for a new activation key. I'm sure they will ask a few questions and it's not convenient to have to do it but I figure if you own a legit copy that they will work with you.
If not then screw 'em and crack the game. I mean hell we all crack our store bought games anyway don't we? I know I do because I hate having to load the disc's.
Pretty much:
Pirates = bypass this in a second and can play forever.
Honest customers who buy it = screwed over.
Thanks a lot 2k screw over the ones you should be supporting good job.
I bought the game I should be able to install it as many times as I damn well please! If I want to reinstall it 50000 times and install it on 10 computers I own then I should be able too!
Why would I keep an 8GB+ game on my hard drive when I don't play it anymore? What's the point of even owning it? I might as well just pirate it I'll get a better deal! I wont pirate it but I'm sure a LOT more people will because of this.
Ever heard of a little thing called starforce? PC gamers turned against it and it's nothing now. Same thing will happen with this anti-piracy.
Make it had to pirate, not make it hard for the honest people! ****!
Maybe if you just get your b tongue out of the company, you could see that there are real and genuine conserns here.
Well, EA had localized customer support. I don't know about their call centers as support was directed to web pages and the game I dealt with them DID NOT JUST REFUSE TO INSTALL if I updated my computer. If you direct vital support needs to call centers, they have to be able to deal with every caller.Name 1 gaming company that has a 25hour international help line that speaks every god-damned language?
One of the major game houses just a while ago pulled a plug from their old servers and made several games worthless. It costed too much to keep those servers up and running. This WILL happend to securom activation servers too, if not sooner, then later. Simple solution is to tell players, that at some day in the future activation will be removed with a patch and everyone can be happy again.Securom wont be out of business, sony is backing them. And sony LOVES security.
You are insulting other languages and yet you don't understand your own language enough to realise that 'rapid' refers to speed, not to amount. Resetting installation amount automaticly every two months or so, would ease a lot problems caused by this copy protection and secure ownership and resale values.rapidly installing would probably be best described as more installs than 1 person needs to have running at any given time. Jesus, are you installing this game on 15 pcs so everywhere you go you will never be more than 10 feet from it?
No. Act now, not when you face the problem. Then it may be too late.Just install it and have some fun. You people get all wound up about this crap for absolutly no reason.
☺☺☺ are you talking about? How are we screwed if we can use those cracked exe's to crack our games and install them 50000 times if we wish. How did we get screwed if there is already a work around? So let the hackers hack and we can still take advantage of it. I really don't see this as a big deal.
Maybe some of you are mad because you will have to crack it if you want to install it more than twice? Because the hackers didn't have to pay for the game? You did and still need their crack exe file? BIG DEAL.
It dosn't bother me in the least because no matter what I would be cracking the game anyway just so I can put my game disc away on the shelf and not have to pop it in the drive every time I want to play.
Plus I own my copy and I don't have to deal with burns of the pirated copies and all the crap that goes with it. I'll just have to download a small no-cd/activation fix. WHOA...
The problem is that we should NOT have to resort to cracks and such to play our legally purchased game.
Unless securom has made a quantum leap in competence in the past couple weeks or so, this is very easy to disable.
Make a backup copy of the original .exe file (so you can revert it to original when applying patches), and then place a cracked .exe file in the install directory.
If you purchased a copy of the game there is nothing wrong with using a cracked version of the game (though it's advisable to be sure it's a properly made crack as inept groups have been known to create inferior cracks that can cause technical problems).
Does 2k actually think that this is going to stop or even slow piracy? By the end of the week, it's going to be all over the torrent trackers, and once again, it seems that producers decide to piss off LEGITIMATE customers so they can pretend they're fighting the noble fight against piracy...
true
cracks are illegal, just as pirating the game is illegal. if u use a crack u could face possible legal action and i'm pretty sure its against the EULA.
arguing that we should just wait for a crack 2 sort out activation problems is nonsense. u might as well argue that in order to avoid all of these problems we should just pirate the game instead.
i can't believe i'm actually considering pirating this game
Still too often.
Never had a drive crash have you? Add another thing to the list of things to do in prep for rebuilding a computer. It's all wrong.just uninstall it before you go through the overhaul, and then do your reinstall.
The mere presence of the system is the problem. Data-mining or not. If the product was acquired, let it be used. Freely. As intended. Without hooks.calling it "hardware fingerprinting" is a bit alarmist. we do not transmit any of your data to any companies.
The maker of Supreme Commander were bright enought to remove the Securerom out of there game and even put a no-cd function in their game after they got a few complaint. They never tried to say it was a good thing to have it embended in their software. They just got rid of it to satify US the customer.
Cracks are not illegal.true
cracks are illegal, just as pirating the game is illegal. if u use a crack u could face possible legal action and i'm pretty sure its against the EULA.
arguing that we should just wait for a crack 2 sort out activation problems is nonsense. u might as well argue that in order to avoid all of these problems we should just pirate the game instead.
i can't believe i'm actually considering pirating this game
I have bought and installed the US CE and the german legals (that I agreed on installation) allow the usage (I found no words of hardware restriction) and also transfer to 3rd person (selling) of bioshock is allowed...
I will get a new rig on saturday (should have arrived before the CE but well thats how it goes). I guess I will find out soon what the words are worth...
Ok now I am confused... I originally came by the forums today to say Thanks to 2K and the Dev Team. Yet now the only thing I can Say is I am pissed!!!
There are an entire host of things that can happen to windows or the install that could prevent someone from unregistering there copy of the game for a reinstall or install to a new system.
I picked up a Copy of Vista Ultimate today and was going to do a Dual boot. Now I have to worry that when something goes wrong that I may have to buy another copy next time I want to install the game should I forget to uninstall if I can uninstall? I Upgrade my system every 3 months as I've always done since as far back as the 286/386 days. In all those years I can't even begin to count the amount of times I've reformatted and or upgraded. And just as well I can't begin to count how many times I could not uninstall a specific program (game or app) which was the cause of ether some form of update or even being hit by Spyware/malware/etc...
As with a few other games (publishers and developers) they did realize the mistake they made and corrected it in a patch. One can only hope that 2K realizes this was the Grand mistake of any kind a developer / Publisher could possibly make. This has not deterred the Pirates one bit as they are already playing the game. So while I have to worry about the DRM in my copy of the game... The Pirates don't have to worry about this at all.
This really sucks, and was kind of a kick in the teeth as it was not displayed anywhere on the box or online during time of purchase (as well as the fact that I came here with the intentions of posting a nice comment to 2k). I've had this happen to me once before (Earth 2160) and Swore I would never buy another game that does this. I am sure this was not stated on the Package because they knew a lot of people would have thought twice about buying the game if they did.
I do hope that 2K does try to fix this in some way but I can't see how as the info is already all over the web and people everywhere are canceling their order as well as hurting 2k's image as a Dev/Pub.
Sorry for my long post but I am pretty pissed at this bit of info... That being said, the game is great but this will no doubtedly not only weigh in on my future purchases from 2k but as well take some of the fun factor away now.
August 22, 2007 - Current Release
Bug fixes
Fixed uninstall/reinstall issue with Bioshock
Auto-update from Steam just minutes ago.
has anyone tried to contact 2k/IG/securom about this issue?
2K just seems to be shifting blame onto us.. maybe I had actually KNOWN about this limitation beforehand, I wouldn't be half as angry as I am now. Nowhere does it ever mention 2 installs max.
heres where my problem lies
okay so if i installed the game on 2 pcs but uninstalled 1 then i can install it on another pc?
can i do that as many times as i like?
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