Widescreen is fudged... AGAIN!

[greylantern]

I'm not going to lie...this is a joke. I would love an official statement from 2k. Until than, I plan to pass this little tidbit around to all my favorite gaming blogs and forums.

Cheerio!

Don't forget user reviews! I'm sick of seeing the review sites 'massaging the egos' of the developers (for advertising money no doubt). I've seen countless bad reviews deleted on IGN and Gamespot (yes I should know better than going there I guess). I've noticed 3 reviews deleted now that give low scores to this game BECAUSE of the widescreen problem (1 on gamespot, 2 on other sites) So please anyone is unhappy about this, make it known on those sites - one or two quiet voices just sound like someone making it up and moaning, but if we all do it they may finally understand that is affects enjoyment of the game.

I guess these posts will disappear soon anyway... in the age old tradition of 2K's deletion happy mods.

[redrumy3]

Damn, again with widescreen i have to check it out last time i couldn't play bioshock until it was fixed, i hope this is not zoomed in to much and gives you a headache while playing. If it is i will have to wait until they fix it :'(

[greylantern]

And there are many games like RTCW, and Duke 3D (even with the HRP) that do not have PROPER widescreens. It takes a lot of work to get it right.

NO! IT doesn't take a LOT of work to get it right. Have you ever coded a directX 3D engine? have you ever used the unreal engine? Stop using your thoughts as facts please.

It's a very simple mathematical formula to calculate the correct FOV based on the aspect ratio. IT's around 2/3 lines of code at it's core (before you dress it up in handling/user interface options) and the 2D elements/gui squishing is a seperate issue.

Do not excuse any developer who does it wrong, just because some other games did it wrong it doesn't make it right. They are ALL wrong, as YOU would know fully if you ever tried to play them on a widescreen, or god forbid a triple head surround screen set up. It's so easy and so fluid when set up right to adapt itself to ANY screen situation, it's actually easier to do it right than to do what 2K did.

[greylantern]

Damn, again with widescreen i have to check it out last time i couldn't play bioshock until it was fixed, i hope this is not zoomed in to much and gives you a headache while playing. If it is i will have to wait until they fix it :'(

Sure seems zoomed in to me. Note the drill is missing all it's lower articulation in the Widescreen shots. Flicking between the 2 pics you can clear see the 'head' jumping forward quite a way in the widescreen shot. A sure sign that it will be uncomfortable to play for many who get headaches with such low FOV while sitting close to a *PC* monitor.

[redrumy3]

hmm here is mine at 1680 x 1050 haven't tried it on my tv yet but it doesnt seem that bad

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1...0209143337.png

[Crezth]

hmm here is mine at 1680 x 1050 haven't tried it on my tv yet but it doesnt seem that bad

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1...0209143337.png

The problem seems to diminish with larger resolutions... I wager that 2K tested extensively on as low as 1440x900 and similar resolutions, in the 1680x1050 range, but didn't dip below 1280 and the like, where the VERT angle appears to alter itself wildly.

[gs01]

There's another .ini in programfiles\2kgames\bioshock\sp\builds\binaries named defuser.ini that seems to control the fov it only seems to help the hor though and nothing about vert.


edit: I thought that this was working but it just seems that the fov increases the higher the resolution so editing the fov doesn't do anything, now I'm really confused.

[2K Elizabeth]

Why wont anyone from the support give us an answer?
i just spent alot of money on their product and they avoid answering this tread!

I want you to know that my silence doesn't mean I'm ignoring you - as you can imagine, it's a busy day, and I'm collecting all the facts and I'll come back and post here when I get everything sorted.

The game's FOV is 75, that is true, and there is more information (which I think most of you have read) on the Cult of Rapture. I'm working on clarifications that you have requested.

[hatrox]

No I took those screenshots myself and never touched the options, I'd sure like to continue playing it but not until a fix is released. I notice there's an user.ini in the application data directory but changing the .fov in it doesn't seem to affect anything. What a waste of money on this game.

They told us several weeks before the game's release, there was specifically going to be a helmet on/off option. It was mentioned in a couple of videos too. Nice.........

[cipher86]

I want you to know that my silence doesn't mean I'm ignoring you - as you can imagine, it's a busy day, and I'm collecting all the facts and I'll come back and post here when I get everything sorted.

The game's FOV is 75, that is true, and there is more information (which I think most of you have read) on the Cult of Rapture. I'm working on clarifications that you have requested.

Whatever the case may be, there should be a fix for this, and quickly. I do, in fact, get a headache from playing this game on widescreen, the same way I did with Bioshock 1 before the FOV patch.

I pre-ordered this game based on a few reassurances from 2k, the main one being about true widescreen support. I had to wait to play Bioshock due to the widescreen issue, and I would have waited to buy Bioshock 2 had I known the widescreen would be treated this poorly once again. With Bioshock 1, I didn't purchase until it was a bargain title ($20), as that was when 2k finally got around to taking care of the widescreen issue. I dropped $50 on Bioshock 2 and can't play - am I going to be waiting another year (give or take) before I can comfortably play?

If this isn't resolved by the end of the week, I'll have to talk with Steam about a refund.

[Glasofruix]

I want you to know that my silence doesn't mean I'm ignoring you - as you can imagine, it's a busy day, and I'm collecting all the facts and I'll come back and post here when I get everything sorted.

The game's FOV is 75, that is true, and there is more information (which I think most of you have read) on the Cult of Rapture. I'm working on clarifications that you have requested.

While you're here, would you be kind enough to take note of the crappy mouse control in the game as well?

[Chocobostew]

For me, not only does it clip the top and bottom of the screen, but also a small portion of the right hand edge as well. Check these pics out.

I used the tile floor in this area as a reference point.

Normal - http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1960/bs2normal.jpg
Wide - http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4180/bs2wide.jpg

[twEEker]

How could this possibly happen yet again? This screams port job at least in that aspect. Do you not remember all the rage that happened before? Get a fix out asap ☺☺☺.

[Chocobostew]

Just so I understand the scope of this issue, does it effect every version of the game? (PC, 360, PS3)

I was browsing through some screenshots in various sources and it indeed DOES look like its an issue for everyone regardless of the platform.

I am running the PC version meself.

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I am compiling a complete list with a nifty screenshot for you, but in short: Yes, there's a problem, yes, a fix is on the way, yes the view will expand horizontally for you widescreen gamers.

I wanted to let you know as soon as I could - so stay tuned for the details.

[2K Elizabeth]

Just so I understand the scope of this issue, does it effect every version of the game? (PC, 360, PS3)

I was browsing through some screenshots in various sources and it indeed DOES look like its an issue for everyone regardless of the platform.

I am running the PC version meself.

This is just a PC issue. It doesn't impact 360 or PS3 because the game always has a widescreen angle for those versions.

[ogreballerina]

Thank you...

I just got the game and using 19x12...you can't even see the helmet edges and it looks like your praying all the time....

Playing at lower res now...but jaggies are pretty bad sometimes..19x12 they were alot better....

[twEEker]

Hey guys,

I am compiling a complete list with a nifty screenshot for you, but in short: Yes, there's a problem, yes, a fix is on the way, yes the view will expand horizontally for you widescreen gamers.

I wanted to let you know as soon as I could - so stay tuned for the details.

Good to hear, this is such a basic thing I'm shocked it happened again in Bioshock 2. It kind of gives me a slight headache playing with such a screwy FOV.

Otherwise I am loving the game so far

[WhiteZero]

While you're here, would you be kind enough to take note of the crappy mouse control in the game as well?

Ditto on that. Setting the sensitivity to 1 creates some kind of bizarre mouse acceleration glitch in menu (even though mouse accel is turned off) and generally in-game the mouse sensitivity is all screwed up.

[greylantern]

This is just a PC issue. It doesn't impact 360 or PS3 because the game always has a widescreen angle for those versions.

Good news you have acknowledged and are working on a quick patch. I'll be quiet and say no more on it.

However, to be fair, this issue technically is present on the consoles too surely? It's just not as noticeable. Imagine 4:3 version don't exist ANYWHERE, the problem with 'too low' FOV on any widescreen is still a real problem. When playing on console it's usually not as noticable as you sit way back from the TV, unlike sitting very close to a monitor.

HOWEVER, if a PS3/Xbox owner were to hook up their console to a computer style monitor (very possible, some do) then they also would notice the 'too low' FOV. Unless you specifically set a different/higher FOV for the widescreen consoles then it should have the indentical same issue. This can be tested by any console owner simply by changing their system settings to 4:3, take a photo of the game, set back to wide take another photo and compare - you should notice that the edges of the screen show the same environment (where it should expand further on a widescreen) and the top and bottom are cropped off on the widescreen view instead of MATCHING the 4:3 view which they should.

A brilliant example of how it should be done is PC version of Half Life 2 (or any decent PC game). HL2 shows you how switching from 4:3 to 16:10/9 doesn't affect the top/bottom of the picture AT ALL - only the sides, which is as it should be as on a widescreen display it's only the sides that are 'different' other wise they would be branding them as 'short screens' (vertically) it would be like taking a 4:3 monitor and just putting a few inches of black tape over the bottom and top to block out the scene. That is exactly what your implementation of 'widescreen' is doing in bioshock 2 (and did in 1 before patching)

Actually that may be a way to get through to 4:3 users just what the problem is, it could be hard to get your head around it. Forget about what you perceive as the complaint (4:3/indifferent users) and just try this:

Fire up bioshock in 4:3 on your 4:3 monitor/TV. Looks good? yes

Now stick an inch of card (aprox) on the bottom and top edges of the screen to overlap the game screen. Notice how the bottom of your hands/drill are missing. And that you can't actually see much vertically so have to look up a lot more (then down a lot more) you lose vertical peripheral vision (if there is such a thing) and feel 'hemmed in' to a box. Visually you can breathe in 4:3 and should be able to in widescreen just like any decent game that handles it properly.

So you gain nothing width wise but lose at the top bottom. That will show you how we see it and why it's a problem. Because then it's like looking through a scope, zoomed in a little (the zoom comes from the engine 'cropping' in this manner then zooming into fill the width up to fill the widescreen - this creates a very unatural low fov that causes headaches and nausea in some. That aside, for me it totally kills immersion as I'm forever feeling like I'm playing through a letter box, peering out into a 'nice world' that I can't fully be part of. At this time it's really better to play in 4:3 and get the 'full picture', and it shouldn't be that way. It should be almost equal for all.

We've been here before though and while some console owners will indeed feel annoyed by the too closed in view and headache inducing lack of height it's mainly PC owners who need the fix as they sit close and or use 3xmonitor surround gaming etc.

Please don't let your 'FIX' simply be some abritrary 'fixed' FOV for all widescreen users. It's so SIMPLE to implement properly, someone with a ten screen wide setup could run it perfectly if you just put in the correct PROJECTION MATRIX code for the given ASPECT RATIO.

Please read the microsoft direct3D programming guide (i'm using that as an example as it's free and common and... should be already known/long filed away by any competent coder working on AAA games like this).

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx

The following matrix addresses these issues, and it adjusts vertices to account for the aspect ratio of the viewport, making it a good choice for the perspective projection.

Read the section on aspect ratios, there is no 'tricky math' for your devs to work out, no 'design choice' no 'guesswork' you simply put the numbers in, given the true FOV in 4:3 and the code works it out for your and adjusts the camera automatically. This is normally done with a selectable option for gamers '16:10' '4:3' etc, these days it's even usually done automatically so users don't have to worry (based on the known aspect ratio of the given resolution). And the FACT is when an aspect ratio changes, the projection matrix must change.

Now I know your guys probably are NOT hitting the APIs directly as you are abstracted via Unreal Engine 3 and a lot of these problems come down to that engine (strange as epic themselves used to be great on PC and knew how to handle screens properly). In UE3 I guess they abstracted a touch too far for you guys and didn't force correct handling in the engine. If you coded your own engine you would have had this stuff worked out years ago. I think if you lose anything from this (and B1) you should actually bill EPIC for their shoddy code and ask them why they didn't highlight their shoddy screen handling so that the devs using the engine could avoid all this bad will. You are not alone, many UE3 games suffered with this problem. I just thought that professional coders in a big company would think for themselves and realise it was wrong to do this with widescreen and put their hands up and do what's right for a change!

out.

[Derangel]

Hey guys,

I am compiling a complete list with a nifty screenshot for you, but in short: Yes, there's a problem, yes, a fix is on the way, yes the view will expand horizontally for you widescreen gamers.

I wanted to let you know as soon as I could - so stay tuned for the details.

Good to know. I'm sure its not a priority, but do you know if they'll have the FOV in the fix scale up correctly to Eyefinity resolutions?

[jhumper]

Hey guys,

I am compiling a complete list with a nifty screenshot for you, but in short: Yes, there's a problem, yes, a fix is on the way, yes the view will expand horizontally for you widescreen gamers.

I wanted to let you know as soon as I could - so stay tuned for the details.

Well it;s good to see at least one person is looking at this thread.

But what about a fix for us Eyefinity and Matrox users?

See http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/FAQ for how actual widescreen is supposed to behave.

[gs01]

It's nice that a fix is being worked on but it would be easier if the devs would just tell us how to get in to the console so we could adjust the fov for a temporary fix. I know MS takes a while to certify the patches that use GFWL and I would like to play my game now not 2 or3 weeks from now.

[Claptovaughn]

It's nice that a fix is being worked on but it would be easier if the devs would just tell us how to get in to the console so we could adjust the fov for a temporary fix. I know MS takes a while to certify the patches that use GFWL and I would like to play my game now not 2 or3 weeks from now.

Ditto on this.

I've seen what GFWL can do to a patch release.

Red Faction Guerrilla had a patch ready and the GFWL certification process took weeks.

If there's a quick way to fix it without having to go through GFWL, please just tell us.

[cipher86]

delete this, wrong topic

[Crezth]

Well it;s good to see at least one person is looking at this thread.

But what about a fix for us Eyefinity and Matrox users?

See http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/FAQ for how actual widescreen is supposed to behave.

I find it important that the Devs look at this. HOR+ is universally the preferred option. VERT- isn't incorrect but as the page shows, people aren't too fond of it.

[colt45joe]

ugh. VERT- is incorrect.

also, this is a probem on the xbox 360 and PS3, because the widescreen FOV is the same FOV as the PC's widescreen FOV. I tried playing this game on the xbox 360 and it game me a headache.

[Crezth]

ugh. VERT- is incorrect.

also, this is a probem on the xbox 360 and PS3, because the widescreen FOV is the same FOV as the PC's widescreen FOV. I tried playing this game on the xbox 360 and it game me a headache.

VERT- is a proper ratio it's just ugly. I've never been cursed by using it though, yet, as my copy of BioShock 2 has yet to arrive.

[2K Elizabeth]

ugh. VERT- is incorrect.

also, this is a probem on the xbox 360 and PS3, because the widescreen FOV is the same FOV as the PC's widescreen FOV. I tried playing this game on the xbox 360 and it game me a headache.

This is only an issue for the PC - it wasn't supposed to be this way, actually - what you guys wanted is what we were intending.

[colt45joe]

This is only an issue for the PC

mmm.. no, it isn't. the FOV is fudged on the console versions.

[2K Elizabeth]

greylantern -

we only have a widescreen option for console versions - the game will letterbox in 4:3 to maintain the proper view and ratio. is that not happening with yours?

[defqon]

think we hade this discussion before didn't we ?

http://kotaku.com/291697/bioshocks-w...ing-people-off

[Chocobostew]

greylantern -

we only have a widescreen option for console versions - the game will letterbox in 4:3 to maintain the proper view and ratio. is that not happening with yours?

If this is true, I hope it doesn't mean that the "fix" will end up being a 4:3 letterbox feature for PC.

[2K Elizabeth]

If this is true, I hope it doesn't mean that the "fix" will end up being a 4:3 letterbox feature for PC.

No. That wasn't ever the plan!

[Chocobostew]

I found a fix for the FoV problem. At least until there is an official one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genme...topic=53439425

Theres a workaround, and it DOES work, I've tested it.

[landaishan]

If this isn't resolved by the end of the week, I'll have to talk with Steam about a refund.

i have contacted my place of purchase and they have assured me of a refund should i choose to return it

i cant imagine ill wait longer than two weeks.

[cipher86]

So what's the ETA on a hotfix for this? It really is a major pissoff.

[landaishan]

No. That wasn't ever the plan!

great to see you taking an interest in this problem, but whats the word for those of us who cant play at all due to crashing?

[cipher86]

I find it hard to believe that true widescreen support was there from the beginning, and every single digital and retail copy just so happened to have a totally different code.

[Kyorisu]

I am compiling a complete list with a nifty screenshot for you, but in short: Yes, there's a problem, yes, a fix is on the way, yes the view will expand horizontally for you widescreen gamers.

It seems to me that 2K has a bad habit of releasing games with broken vision. BS1, Borderlands is really bad and now BS2. Who the heck is your QA lead and why is he/she missing this stuff? Different dev teams on all three games so that rules out individual mistake and therefore must be something that 2K let slip through.

I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong but christ guys pull it together.