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Thread: 2k are you ever going to provide a way for demo users to remove securom

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-O-S View Post
    Yeah, wow. Why is elizabeth and 2k lying for, then?
    That is why there are quiet now. Iam sure they did not except such outcry like this.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
    That is why there are quiet now. Iam sure they did not except such outcry like this.
    I agree, when it comes down to things they do wrong, every single employee thinks "fudge this, i'll pass this for another employee to reply."
    Therefor most probaly nothing will happen and this game will be forgotten in a few years when everyone's activation's ran out.

  3. #43
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    Securom needs to be uninstalled when the software using it is uninstalled. I was going to hit Best Buy today and drop $50 on Bioshock, but until Irrational fixes this, it simply aint worth the hassle.

  4. #44
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    I think it's beyond their techincal abilities to uninstall securom properly while merely uninstalling the game (due to all the reasons that the DRM is frowned upon in the first place).

    And if it is easily possible then that's worse, because it doesn't do it.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by greylantern View Post
    I think it's beyond their techincal abilities to uninstall securom properly while merely uninstalling the game (due to all the reasons that the DRM is frowned upon in the first place).

    And if it is easily possible then that's worse, because it doesn't do it.
    They cant even get the mouse to work right, how the hell they gonna get rid of rootkits lol.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperFox View Post
    Therefor most probaly nothing will happen and this game will be forgotten in a few years when everyone's activation's ran out.
    which brings up a VERY important issue..

    What happens in 10 years if I want to play it again?
    on a fresh install?

    "hypetheticly speaking" further to this.. 2k games is defunked.
    if the game can only be installed/played by an internet connection and or a new key.. who the hell is going to activate it for me?

    GET A CLUE TAKE 2... your basically saying were paying for the privilege to use the game.. we don't own the copy we bought.

    Get a new way of fighting piracy.. or you'll find your games are being hacked just to combat your security for legitimate reasons. let alone to pirate them.

    and believe me.. im sure someone already has.. or will... crack and make a pirate copy. JUST TO get back at you for being such a security Nazi. Hell.. Steam's HL2 was probably the first and still the only other game to require activation online... and at least they have their ☺☺☺☺ sorted.

    Whats this "number of activations" ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. you sound like you've been taking lessons from microsloth. You restrict your customer they wont bother with your product. too much paranoia on your part and youve just lost over 1 mill in sales...at least. thats besides the stupid idea to make the Big daddy's out of something that can easily break, what are they cold cast? what ever they are theyre brittle and should have been made out of hard resin.

    anywho, way too many people are turned off by your iron fist of wanting to control.

    trash the "limited number of activations" all togeather.. trash the "you have significantly changed your hardware... please re activate" bull crap.

    all you have to do is one simple thing.. detect when an account has logged on the net and if a dupe comes up then it gets rejected.. same as HL2 on steam..

    you really hadnt thought this through did u..

    screw surcom... you should have talked to valve.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by moofactory View Post
    which brings up a VERY important issue..

    What happens in 10 years if I want to play it again?
    on a fresh install?

    "hypetheticly speaking" further to this.. 2k games is defunked.
    if the game can only be installed/played by an internet connection and or a new key.. who the hell is going to activate it for me?

    GET A CLUE TAKE 2... your basically saying were paying for the privilege to use the game.. we don't own the copy we bought.

    Get a new way of fighting piracy.. or you'll find your games are being hacked just to combat your security for legitimate reasons. let alone to pirate them.

    and believe me.. im sure someone already has.. or will... crack and make a pirate copy. JUST TO get back at you for being such a security Nazi. Hell.. Steam's HL2 was probably the first and still the only other game to require activation online... and at least they have their ☺☺☺☺ sorted.

    Whats this "number of activations" ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. you sound like you've been taking lessons from microsloth. You restrict your customer they wont bother with your product. too much paranoia on your part and youve just lost over 1 mill in sales...at least. thats besides the stupid idea to make the Big daddy's out of something that can easily break, what are they cold cast? what ever they are theyre brittle and should have been made out of hard resin.

    anywho, way too many people are turned off by your iron fist of wanting to control.

    trash the "limited number of activations" all togeather.. trash the "you have significantly changed your hardware... please re activate" bull crap.

    all you have to do is one simple thing.. detect when an account has logged on the net and if a dupe comes up then it gets rejected.. same as HL2 on steam..

    you really hadnt thought this through did u..

    screw surcom... you should have talked to valve.
    Bioshock is cracked few hours ago and many people are busy downloading from torrent,emule and other filesharing.

    Also half life 2 got cracked long ago. Almost all steam games got cracked.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by moofactory View Post
    which brings up a VERY important issue..

    ....

    GET A CLUE TAKE 2... your basically saying were paying for the privilege to use the game.. we don't own the copy we bought.

    ....
    Technically speaking this has always been the case. Read the smallprint on games that are say 10 years old. They will all say "you do not own the software, only the right to use it blabla". The difference now is that companies actually decide whether you can use the game you paid money for, whereas in the past it didnt matter if the company went out of business or whatever. Now they can basically decide they dont like your face and tell you to ☺☺☺☺ off, leaving you with nothing but an expensive coaster.

    Either way i say "screw you" to that and refuse to pay for defective intrusive ☺☺☺☺ like this. 2K, come back when you fixed your defective heap of crap ok.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    there is no securom on the demo.
    http://i17.tinypic.com/6c8i5hy.jpg

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  11. #51
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    You lost another customer!
    Its unacceptable to pay for something and get "less" than the people who just illegally copy the game.

    http://i13.tinypic.com/66t9bfq.jpg

  12. #52
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    i think they care more about those who pirate it, than legit costumers.......which's dumb...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-O-S View Post
    i think they care more about those who pirate it, than legit costumers.......which's dumb...
    I think it's more likely they were paying more attention towards hindering the pirates than they were towards ensuring their customers had an easy, hassle-free experience - and as a result screwed up by choosing SecuROM.

  14. #54

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelphoenix View Post
    Best post ever

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-O-S View Post
    i think they care more about those who pirate it, than legit costumers.......which's dumb...
    Yeah, pirates dont give them any money. Legit users do. But I guess punishing legit users makes them feel like they are fighting the problem (When they arent).

  17. #57
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    The last time I installed a game with a rootkit (Splinter Cell 3 - and I know, that wasn't securom... but I had also a game with securom installed at that time) my Computer started crashing (blue screen, under XP) randomly. Even after uninstalling the game and removing the rootkit with a special tool the crashes didn't stop.
    I had to make a clean reinstall of XP to get that fixed.

    I played the Bioshock demo and uninstalled it - and now I found securom keys in my registry.

    I need a tool that removes the remains of securom - completely.
    Ever since SP3 I stopped buying any games that contain rootkits (and denying that securom is not a rootkit or that the demo uses securom is not helping) since I don't want to reinstall XP every time I uninstall a game.

    I know this has been said a lot already... but I guess another take at this can't hurt, right?

    By the way, I don't think this level of outrage is appropriate. Just don't buy the PC version (don't buy any version if you feel so strongly about it) tell your friends and write about it in your blog if you have one. Unless 2K hates our money, they will change their position.
    After all, it's just a game... you don't need to play it.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    there is no securom on the demo.
    Then why on earth do I have a Securom registry? (found using rootkit revealer by microsoft)

    It was created exactly on the date that I installed the demo. Why is it there if there is no SECUROM IN THE DEMO?????
    And I'm not talking about the Steam demo, the regular demo.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamont View Post
    Then why on earth do I have a Securom registry? (found using rootkit revealer by microsoft)

    It was created exactly on the date that I installed the demo. Why is it there if there is no SECUROM IN THE DEMO?????
    And I'm not talking about the Steam demo, the regular demo.
    She was wrong.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISKER_Q View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelphoenix View Post
    I laughed. I laughed a lot.

    But for everyone else, you need to tone down your rage a little bit.
    I'm as disappointed as you are that even the DEMO apparently contains an implementation of SecuROM, and very disappointed that Elizabeth would post apparently-incorrect information about that fact.

    However, she may simply be misinformed. I haven't been here long, so if she's just PR staff, then she may have to go by what she's told, and she may have gotten her information from someone who didn't know any better.

    Past that, the SecuROM may have been added to the demo at a later stage of the release process who never passed the information back down the chain.

  21. #61
    Why put copy protection on a demo, something that is freely availble. I smeel a shady merketing ploy here...

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by }_50{_|eا View Post
    Why put copy protection on a demo, something that is freely availble. I smeel a shady merketing ploy here...
    I have that question too, although I do not go for the marketing ploy route...maybe they wanted to test to see if SecuRom worked.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by adakeb View Post
    Lies. What do you call this?

    http://www.nyn.dds.nl/tmp/bio.JPG
    What the hell 2k! Why do you lie about something so trivial, what else could you be lying about!? I demand a refund on my purchase, I'm calling support.


    This is a slap in the face to your customer base!

  24. #64

    this is madness

    Just when you get used to being paranoid while inserting a music CD in your computer and thinking it cant go much worse... ☺☺☺, rootkits for demos?!
    what next JPGS and TXT files? Maybe the bad pirates try to view and steal them too, think of all the lost profits!

  25. #65
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    Seriously, that's dumb to have securom on demo....extremely dumb.

  26. #66
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    well that decided`s it for me... i was thinking of having a look at the demo, and maybe buying the game on steam, but reading though the k2 forums.. no way.
    Bioshock as good as it might be, is a dead do-do for me. and i`ll be looking twice at any K2 games in the future.

  27. #67
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    Total Crap!!!

    2k We Dont Use Root-kits?
    2k We Dont Use Securom On Demo's?
    2k We Dont Have Hidden Sex Files In San Andreas?

    3 Strikes Your Out!!!

    I Wont Be Buying Any Of Your Product's!!! I Was Looking Forward To Gt4 Now U Can Shove It

    Punishing Gamer's For Being Intrested In Your Products Is Really Really Dumb An Shows Where Your Respect Lies Dosn't It

    Profit Margins Over Peoples Rights

    I Feel Sick That Ive Helped You Become This Greedy Profit Margin Company

    I Hope Bill Gates Sue's You For Hacking Windows Security!!!

    Wtg The Profit Men!!! U Really Sweated "patches" That Much?

  28. #68
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    Even World in Conflict demo have securom almost every game demos got craprom with it. Nowdays companies are so paranoid.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
    Even World in Conflict demo have securom almost every game demos got craprom with it. Nowdays companies are so paranoid.
    One major reason for this is that back when they released demos with no copy protection the unprotected demo executable was often used in the cracking process of the full game. Ergo everybody has been using copy protection on their demos for the last few years. At least all the companies that use copy protection on their retail versions.

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58545256 View Post
    What the hell 2k! Why do you lie about something so trivial, what else could you be lying about!? I demand a refund on my purchase, I'm calling support.


    This is a slap in the face to your customer base!
    2K elizabeth. Are you ever going to respond? The issue is now getting worse for people.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obturator View Post
    2K elizabeth. Are you ever going to respond? The issue is now getting worse for people.
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html
    So glad that you could finally admit this. Now how about that uninstaller?

  33. #73
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    Im not going to take on the Rootkit for a while....

    But to answer the OP, the answer is NO. It would be a lot of easier to crack the full version of the game from an unprotected demo.

    Am I right Elizabeth?

  34. #74
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    Regardless of whether or not securom is on the demo or not, in my mind it is much much worse that highly regarded antivirus program claims that bioshock.exe is infected with a virus. And that this virus can't be healed, only moved to the vault where most people probably are going to delete it.

    I know enough about computers etc. to know that i (may) have done something wrong here (although I doubt it ) But what about the mother or father who just downloaded the demo to see what the game was about, considering getting the full game for their daughters or sons?? And who don't know anything much about computers??

    To me, this seems to be a false positive. On Saturday the 25th of August, I was getting this virus message from AVG a lot. I then promptly clicked ignore.
    Even after this, the problems I'm having with the demo still persist.

    As for Securom being on the demo, I can see understand, since some people will do -ahem- cough - bad things... (not an encouragement, though) I just want to play the demo, so I can decide for myself whether or not to get this game. And I don't mind Securom being on the demo, as long as I know it is there. As I've said in previous threads, NWN2 also uses Securom, so does Kotor1+Kotor2+Jade Empire and bunch of other games.

    @ Elisabeth:

    Thank you so much for answering This really means a lot In fact, if I compare this forum to other forums, the response from the moderators, admins and moderators seem to be swifter, quicker and somewhat better than on the other forums.

    Please understand that Elisabeth only is able to tell us what she's been told...

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html
    Thanks for clearing that up.

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html
    Noone cares about the rootkit part, it was just extra glacing on the cake, the fundemental issues still exist, so i doubt anyone care if it is one or not.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISKER_Q View Post
    Noone cares about the rootkit part, it was just extra glacing on the cake, the fundemental issues still exist, so i doubt anyone care if it is one or not.
    What I find amusing is that they never really said anything to prove why securom isnt a rootkit. Thats a lost cause though. They wont admit to it even if it is.

    As for the other issues we still need some kind of response. We need to know why securom locks us out of our apps. We still need a securom uninstaller for those unlucky souls who got it with the demo. And we still need to know just how deep securom is tampering with our OSs (I imagine it will take much more prodding to get them to reveal that it is more than a registry key and system files).

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html
    The article cited does not in fact show how SecuROM is not a rootkit. It fails the duck test. It walks like one, quacks like one, leaves a mess like one. All of the fanboi peanut gallery drivel in the world will not change the basic facts here:

    1) SecuROM hides itself from the OS and the user to the point where specialized software is required to even detect its presence.

    2) SecuROM actively works to avoid detection and/or analysis of its activity on your system.

    3) SecuROM contains software which allows processes to take Administrative rights without the user's input or knowledge. The former is what makes it a rootkit. The latter is what makes it a security violation.

    I've tried to be nice here. Really. I work tech support and I've seriously tried to avoid being one of 'those customers.' I sympathize with the situation that your front line people are in. However, my sympathy does not erase the fact that you've bundled a rootkit with your software, covered up the fact that you've bundled a rootkit with your software, and then lied about bundling a rootkit with your software when you got caught doing it.

    Right now I'm sitting here out fifty dollars that I gave to your company for a product that I can't use. What exactly would you suggest I do? I didn't find out about any of this until after I had already opened the game. I can't return it. If I could, I already would have. Had I known ahead of time that you had made the decision to force this garbage on us I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. You've lost my trust and you've lost me as a customer. Bioshock isn't the first 2K published game I have ever bought, and until this little fiasco it wasn't going to be the last. Now it is.

    Fix this situation and I'll reconsider. However, you've burned through an enormous amount of trust with your customer base. Not only did you do something horrifically unethical, you lied about it, and we've been waiting for almost a week for just a statement that you accepted that there was a problem and you were doing something about it. If it takes longer than a week to write an actual fix, I can understand that. (It doesn't change the fact that you never should have created the problem in the first place, but baby steps here.) The fact that you've all been silent on the topic says volumes about your intentions here. (None of it good.)

  39. #79
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
    The article cited does not in fact show how SecuROM is not a rootkit. It fails the duck test. It walks like one, quacks like one, leaves a mess like one. All of the fanboi peanut gallery drivel in the world will not change the basic facts here:

    1) SecuROM hides itself from the OS and the user to the point where specialized software is required to even detect its presence.

    2) SecuROM actively works to avoid detection and/or analysis of its activity on your system.

    3) SecuROM contains software which allows processes to take Administrative rights without the user's input or knowledge. The former is what makes it a rootkit. The latter is what makes it a security violation.

    I've tried to be nice here. Really. I work tech support and I've seriously tried to avoid being one of 'those customers.' I sympathize with the situation that your front line people are in. However, my sympathy does not erase the fact that you've bundled a rootkit with your software, covered up the fact that you've bundled a rootkit with your software, and then lied about bundling a rootkit with your software when you got caught doing it.

    Right now I'm sitting here out fifty dollars that I gave to your company for a product that I can't use. What exactly would you suggest I do? I didn't find out about any of this until after I had already opened the game. I can't return it. If I could, I already would have. Had I known ahead of time that you had made the decision to force this garbage on us I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. You've lost my trust and you've lost me as a customer. Bioshock isn't the first 2K published game I have ever bought, and until this little fiasco it wasn't going to be the last. Now it is.

    Fix this situation and I'll reconsider. However, you've burned through an enormous amount of trust with your customer base. Not only did you do something horrifically unethical, you lied about it, and we've been waiting for almost a week for just a statement that you accepted that there was a problem and you were doing something about it. If it takes longer than a week to write an actual fix, I can understand that. (It doesn't change the fact that you never should have created the problem in the first place, but baby steps here.) The fact that you've all been silent on the topic says volumes about your intentions here. (None of it good.)
    wow well said! i agree

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth View Post
    hey guys,

    i'm sorry for the delay in responding. i'm currently moving and working out of airports and coffee shops and hotels.

    securom is, indeed, on the demo, but it isn't activated like it is on the full game.

    i'd go into more details about it, but again, i'd probably get it wrong like last time. i'm working on getting an official statement about securom on the demo for you guys, if possible.

    but for now, here's an article about how securom is not a rootkit:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...a-rootkit.html
    2K Elizabeth. Are you EVER going to respond or were you just hoping to ignore this thread entirely?

    Even if secuROM isnt a rootkit ,the Demo users still have secuROM on their machines with no way to fully uninstall it!

    I know 2K has no intention of ever doing anything to remedy this but at least a statement telling the customers to go **** themselves would be better than what you are doing.

    So pretty please can we have an answer?

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