Official outstanding issues - post here, it's what I read!

[Moldy Clay]

Liz, I don't quite understand what's so unclear.

The main thing we all want to know is about that patch for Rapture Metro.

This is an outstanding issue. What is the progress on it?

You have to realize, the thing that is frustrating is not so much the problem with the DLC anymore, but the fact that you keep telling us to ask you questions but you are avoiding the biggest issue like the plague.

It's getting off topic because you know what our problems with this are. We were posting in a topic about it for half a year almost and you still haven't provided anything regarding it.

Are more patches coming to BioShock 2? Or not?
Are we getting the infamous "playlist patch? Or not?
Has ANY progress happened? Or are we supposed to honestly believe that you have NO new information on it from since before E3?

Very simple questions, and you not answering them is what is more frustrating than not being able to play maps.

[2K Elizabeth]

Hey guys,

I have an update on the status of patches for BioShock 2 and some answers to questions on features that have been outstanding for a while. We will not be adding vending machine sounds into any version of BioShock 2 and we will not be adding playlists for the multiplayer DLC maps – we did look in to both options but due to technical and timing issues, these two fixes are not feasible. We are planning patches for the 360 and PS3 to fix some functionality issues, but they will not drastically change gameplay (and I’ll post the patch notes when I get them – these two items are still in with QA.) We will also not be offering Protector Trials and Minerva’s Den on the PC in the future – and I want to say that I’m sorry for the disappointment this will cause to PC players out there. As always, if any of these issues change in the future, I will update you guys first, but at this point in time I don’t want to make you wait any longer and these are the most definite answers I have and you guys should deem them final decisions.

Please feel free to PM me or email with any questions – I’ll follow up in this thread as best as possible but if I miss your comment, I’m not ignoring you – I might just not have read the post – If this happens, again, just ping me and we can chat.

Thanks,

Elizabeth

[SpottedPattern]

Nice to see that in fact 2K Marin do NOT give a flying #@%k about their PC customers, only took what .......... 8 months to confirm something that was pretty much obvious from the DRM threads, bravo, I'm just glad it's another studio developing the next Bioshock, and I say XCOM should be given a wide berth by all PC users who've been given the shaft over Bioshcok 2 by this dev' studio.

I appreciate you're only the messenger Liz, but the message is still the same, PC users do not matter ..... well done, bravo, round of applause, have some cake.

Any other PC users want something to ease the shafting.

PS

[SpottedPattern]

Ok that's the niceities out of the way, so Liz why not ? why aren't 2K Marin giving the PC users the same support and expansions as console users I would like to know and I'm sure all the users and publications I pointed at this thread would also like to know.

Though suppose we'll have to wait another 8 months plus to get an answer to that.

[2K Elizabeth]

Ok that's the niceities out of the way, so Liz why not ? why aren't 2K Marin giving the PC users the same support and expansions as console users I would like to know and I'm sure all the users and publications I pointed at this thread would also like to know.

Though suppose we'll have to wait another 8 months plus to get an answer to that.

You don't have to wait 8 months for an answer - I summarized it pretty well (I thought) in that post. Timing and technical issues were the problem. And again, apologies for the delay - we did explore the options, which is why this took some time, but as I said before, I wanted to give you guys a full explanation when everything was finalized.

[skyking71]

I feel like a Schmuck for vesting so much emotion, time and money into this. Here’s a portion of my company’s take on our consumers that I’d like to share:
“Consumers are more sophisticated and educated than ever before… …The danger is equally clear: The day you take consumers for granted is the day they leave you.”
I’m sure I’ll get over it, but why lead us PC folks on for so long about the SP DLC?

[2K Elizabeth]

I feel like a Schmuck for vesting so much emotion, time and money into this. Here’s a portion of my company’s take on our consumers that I’d like to share:
“Consumers are more sophisticated and educated than ever before… …The danger is equally clear: The day you take consumers for granted is the day they leave you.”
I’m sure I’ll get over it, but why lead us PC folks on for so long about the SP DLC?

We weren't intending, or trying, to lead anyone on, but the decision had not yet been finalized.

[guthwulf_de]

Are you guys planning to offer a refund for the Rapture Metro pack then?
Because we normally should be able to actually play the DLC if we want to.

I still haven't seen any of the new maps and I don't really have the patience to try anymore at this point.

[angrybeavers]

Holy ☺☺☺☺ that was the laugh I needed today Liz, really!

To see you come out and finally admit that 2K's promise to fix vending sounds 8 months ago was a complete and total lie, that's hilarious!

And since you said 2K is patching 360 and PS3 but neglected to put PC in that list, we at last know that all those lies about the team working on a PC patch to fix the ☺☺☺☺ed up UI, bink errors, little sister audio/animation failures were just that.


Lies.

You, personally, lied to all of us for nearly half a year. Congratulations on the disingenuous false cordiality and sheen of deprecation you treated all of us for all this time.

I applaud you as being the perfect representative of a company as untrustworthy and disgraceful as 2K Marin.

You know how I'm mailing the game back to you so you can replace it with something else? Since 2k's not patching BS2, I think you need to think about how you're making that dump up to everyone else here.

[FireyFate]

Are you guys planning to offer a refund for the Rapture Metro pack then?
Because we normally should be able to actually play the DLC if we want to.

I still haven't seen any of the new maps and I don't really have the patience to try anymore at this point.

This. My final question to you is, what is 2k's official thought on this. You sold us a broken product... not broken for some, broken for everyone. EVERY ONE. How do you justify keeping our money?

[angrybeavers]

Because they're morally bankrupt and essentially a corrupt predatory snake-oil operation, is my guess...

BTW Liz, your line about the game "working" doesn't stand up since there's no MP playlist patch.

So apart from replacing your lemon game with another game for me, it's only fair you pay the postage for when I send you back your broken game.

Of course 2K hasn't treated their customers fairly from launch, so I don't expect anything more than a lie and a smirk from 2K customer service at this point.

[zealous010]

Totally called this. (not on the forums but with my friends)

Though to all those saying that we were lied to, from what I have read we technically weren't. All of 2ks language on here said "we are looking into" or "I'll have word on that later", a clever parlor trick to not promise us anything and yet keep us entertained long enough that in the slimmest chance that something was cobbled together they could say "see we got it done, it just took us longer then planned". It is all about the language and Liz was trained very well, she earned her biscuit from 2k .

I wouldn't be so agitated that if during this whole thing Liz had told us that it wasn't looking good or to lower our expectations. By keeping us unaware our levels of hope remained semi-constant and when this news hit we were unprepared. Part of your job when dealing with your community is to prepare them for the worst case scenario, not keep us in the dark and surprise us with something like this. But, like I said, she followed her training very well.

All we can do is hope that these patches are instituted and fix the annoying problems such as the big sis music loop or whatever everyone else has problems with some time soon if during a normal humans lifetime.

In all honesty though I believe we finally found our Wumpus, that truth we always new existed but could never really find.

I will seriously be considering not buying a 2k product ever again. This was just a horrible lead around and I cannot trust that it will not happen again in the future.

I'll be contacting you later Liz, after I print out pictures of 2k staff members and adhere them to a dartboard.

[2K Elizabeth]

Totally called this. (not on the forums but with my friends)

Though to all those saying that we were lied to, from what I have read we technically weren't. All of 2ks language on here said "we are looking into" or "I'll have word on that later", a clever parlor trick to not promise us anything and yet keep us entertained long enough that in the slimmest chance that something was cobbled together they could say "see we got it done, it just took us longer then planned". It is all about the language and Liz was trained very well, she earned her biscuit from 2k .

I wouldn't be so agitated that if during this whole thing Liz had told us that it wasn't looking good or to lower our expectations. By keeping us unaware our levels of hope remained semi-constant and when this news hit we were unprepared. Part of your job when dealing with your community is to prepare them for the worst case scenario, not keep us in the dark and surprise us with something like this. But, like I said, she followed her training very well.

All we can do is hope that these patches are instituted and fix the annoying problems such as the big sis music loop or whatever everyone else has problems with some time soon if during a normal humans lifetime.

In all honesty though I believe we finally found our Wumpus, that truth we always new existed but could never really find.

I will seriously be considering not buying a 2k product ever again. This was just a horrible lead around and I cannot trust that it will not happen again in the future.

I'll be contacting you later Liz, after I print out pictures of 2k staff members and adhere them to a dartboard.

I'm a bit saddened by the "biscuit" comment, but I understand your frustration. And yes, I know how to talk to people so I don't promise things I can't deliver, but the reason I didn't give you anything one way or another is because we were still exploring options and the decision hadn't been finalized yet. I'm not one to put people on a rollercoaster - when things became less certain, I let people know that I didn't have any info one way or another.

Again, in an ideal world, I could have given you guys an answer, definitively, to every question as soon as it was asked. I'm sorry for the delays, and I understand those of you who wanted this content and area sad that you can't play it - which is why I wanted to get you this news as soon as it was finalized.

Please try to be polite and respectful, though. Taking low blows at me, the dev team, or anyone else isn't going to help anything.

Thanks.

[angrybeavers]

I'm a bit saddened by the "biscuit" comment, but I understand your frustration. And yes, I know how to talk to people so I don't promise things I can't deliver, but the reason I didn't give you anything one way or another is because we were still exploring options and the decision hadn't been finalized yet. I'm not one to put people on a rollercoaster - when things became less certain, I let people know that I didn't have any info one way or another.

Again, in an ideal world, I could have given you guys an answer, definitively, to every question as soon as it was asked. I'm sorry for the delays, and I understand those of you who wanted this content and area sad that you can't play it - which is why I wanted to get you this news as soon as it was finalized.

Please try to be polite and respectful, though. Taking low blows at me, the dev team, or anyone else isn't going to help anything.

Thanks.

I'm confident you'll understand if we don't find much pity in your sadness at the biscuit comment.

As for polite and respectful, we did that for months and you led us on with empty promises. I'm unsure what bloated sense of self-importance 2K has that it expects it can treat its customers like this and still have us come up all Please Sir Oliver Twist polite.

As ye reap, so shall ye sow. 2K took a huge steaming dump on its PC customers, and you should really grow up and not expect us to be polite. Blows, high, and low, at the company, the devs, and your constant stream of doublespeak for the last half year are simply the fruits of how you treated the people who shelled out 60 bucks for a game you promised was gold and turned out to be beta.

[zealous010]

"Your genes have no objection to an empty smile, but anger to the gene is part of the program, I submit the following conclusion - the gene is the enemy."

Guess my smile faltered back there.

Issues:

1. Big Sister Music Loop in Paupers Drop.

2. Audio Freeze in Persephone resulting in being unable to receive new Radio messages and listen to Older Radio Messages or Audio Diaries.

Those are mine so far. I stopped playing it so I don't mind if they get mended or not.

[Precarious]

I'm giving fair warning to this thread. It's fine to express distaste. It's fine to say how you're feeling. It is NOT OK to insult 2K staff or other forum members. If I see insults, degrading remarks or trolling, I will not let it slide.

I'm sure we can all keep it under control.

[zealous010]

I wonder if getting on the phone with Microsoft or Sony will do anything.

The Xbox360 and and Windows live belong to Microsoft and Playstation is owned by Sony. Well a broken/lacking product on their systems doesn't exactly make them look good. To THEIR consumers it appears that that do business with anyone no matter what condition the product is in when they sell.

And the DLC for the Xbox uses Xbox points( whatever they are called) which I'm pretty sure Microsoft sees a cut of, plus the DLCs are nonrefundable, so I wonder what they will think of a product sold through them that doesn't work as it should. Granted we can still use the maps on Xbox through a process entirely complex to be considered usable or enjoyable.

Like I said I'll talk with you later Liz.

[zealous010]

As for polite and respectful, we did that for months and you led us on with empty promises. I'm unsure what bloated sense of self-importance 2K has that it expects it can treat its customers like this and still have us come up all Please Sir Oliver Twist polite.

Ok to be frank with you beaver, not everyone was respectful.

[Ubuntu Solo]

Be respectful?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by stealing our money?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by releasing a broken game?

The same way 2k was respectful of us by abandoning their product?

What ever happened to people having pride in their work? This is like Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel and painting over it before its reveal. Sure the original substance is there, but no can see it.

2k you have lost a customer for life. In reading these forums, your company continually cuts corners in the name of profit while giving its customers a swift kick out the door.

Why is it that Bungie, EA, Treyarch, Infinity Ward, that company from the movie Grandma's Boy or anyone else who has had high school level programming experience can build a playlist for maps but the wonderful people at 2k Marin or Digital Extremes are unable to?

I'm sorry, but to ask for our respect after all this time of not giving us any in return is ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺. We have a right to be angry. You have robbed us with a broken problem and spit in our faces. Respect is earned and you have failed to do so. Treat other the way you wish to be treated; so obviously you wish to be treated with disrespect.

Out of curiosity, and please feel free to take as much as you need to locate the answer to this big mystery, what did 2k do with the numerous $10.00 bills taken from our wallets?

I'd say unbelievable, but it really isn't.

[FireyFate]

Relax guys, the Metro Map pack works perfectly, see? You should have to play on other people's schedule.. it's not like a lot of us are working professionals with real life responsibilities... we all have time to jump through a bunch of hoops to play new maps on a lousy multiplayer game.

My final question to you is, what is 2k's official thought on this. 2k sold us a broken product... not broken for some, broken for everyone. EVERY ONE. How does 2k justify keeping our money?

Hey,

Rapture Metro isn't broken. We intended upon initial design to have it work as it is working, however after release people asked us for a playlist. We explored the option, but in the end decided it's not going to be added in.

If you need help finding more games, I can give you a couple tips (private matches and partying up with people who have the content is a surefire way to dictate that you play them.)

[seriousmax]

Whaaat??? So everything we have been waiting for during all these 8 months was for nothing?OMG!!!All lies.And don't try to justify you because everything you'll say will make you're reputation decrease even more.As the other guy stated above...you expect our respect after all this?Don't be ridiculous,Elizabeth!For God sake!!Put yourself in our place first(no,you can't I know)and you'll see how it feels.It's like you cut every bit of our flesh and expectations in small pieces.Tell me at least there will be at least a patch for the pc to fix the rest of the issues.I didn't see you telling us anything about this in your statement from an hour ago.Again...be sure that it'll be the last time I buy a 2k game(I mean the one MADE by them).Next time I buy one I'll make sure to hear the opinions of the other who played it,see the good,see the not so good and then make the decision.The worst company ever.You'd wish to even get the reputation Rockstar has.Hope gta V intimidates you so that it'll go bankrupt.You only produce games to make money without even trying to fix them when necessary.Such a shame..you lost(I swear)another customer.If you continue like this...I don't think I'll see you persisting until 2020. A Forever Bye ( f# lies,lies,lies)

P.S If you still have a bit of of respect(and of course decency) for your custumers try and answer the question regarding the pc patch.Will there be one?.Auf wiedersehen

[Ubuntu Solo]

I wouldn't hold my breath for a PC patch. They don't care about the customer experience, just the customer money. Besides, fixing things takes money and doesn't bring any back. But good luck in your fight.

[antfilm]

I'm giving fair warning to this thread. It's fine to express distaste. It's fine to say how you're feeling. It is NOT OK to insult 2K staff or other forum members. If I see insults, degrading remarks or trolling, I will not let it slide.

I'm sure we can all keep it under control.

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

[Precarious]

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

First of all, I'm a moderator and not a 2K employee. I'm only here to try and keep the peace. Getting hostile doesn't keep peace. It makes matters worse. So all I'm asking as a moderator is for you to tone it down a bit.

[Ubuntu Solo]

First of all, I'm a moderator and not a 2K employee. I'm only here to try and keep the peace. Getting hostile doesn't keep peace. It makes matters worse. So all I'm asking as a moderator is for you to tone it down a bit.

Could you please respond to my PM? Thanks.

[zealous010]

Fair warning?? Keep it under control?? You conned us all into buying a broken game!the literature you published in advertising that game was a lie! the product you sold was not the one you said it was!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

I don't even think she works directly for 2k/receives a paycheck from them. All I know is she does photography. She has a website. Its not bad, but children are easy subject matter as far as photography is concerned; adorable and appreciated by many/ not many ugly children out there.

Anyway, may i make a suggestion?

"Watch yourself. Ryan's stirring. We best keep to our knitting."

Be smart about what you post.
Be angry but do not let it control your words.
Be a gentleman or lady about it, by using a sharp tongue and a good amount of wit.

EDIT: Of course she gives us the answer while I'm typing lol

[mwinter77]

It's official - 2k ripped us off, lied to us for 8 months, and now wants our understanding - Ha goodbye 2k may you rot in the steaming pile of $%@# which is this game.

The giant middle finger which I showed everyone was 2k response to us was in fact 2k's real response to us - so in keeping with that all I can say is ☺☺☺☺ you too 2k!

[zealous010]

It's official - 2k ripped us off, lied to us for 8 months, and now wants our understanding - Ha goodbye 2k may you rot in the steaming pile of $%@# which is this game.

The giant middle finger which I showed everyone was 2k response to us was in fact 2k's real response to us - so in keeping with that all I can say is ☺☺☺☺ you too 2k!

An example of what not to do as said above.

An example of your communities feelings 2k.

I wonder what would happened if you applied this example into a calculation for customer satisfaction over all.

[soupface]

I'm not sure which is the greater disappointment: word that the single-player DLC will not be available on Windows, or the reactions of some of the members of this forum.

[Erorrless]

:|

sigh, at least we're getting something fixed. i wanted vending machine sounds really bad but i guess i'll have to repeat to myself "in those 10 years in rapture with no maintenance the sound thingy in the machines broke".

[FGMPR]

What an embarrassment this PC port has been for 2K. You would think that some decision makers somewhere would have a little pride in making an acceptable PC game, but I guess not.

[zealous010]

I'm not sure which is the greater disappointment: word that the single-player DLC will not be available on Windows, or the reactions of some of the members of this forum.

What were you expecting exactly?

I agree it wasn't my... finest hour yet not totally unreasonable. Others, yes, went to an extreme but really, what did you expect.

[Codex]

First off, I understand that people are angry. You have a perfect right to be.

I will ask three things from you all in announcing your displeasure:

• Please be as respectful as possible. Simply put, if you wouldn't like it said to you, don't say it.
• Do not backseat moderate. That's our job, not yours
• Everyone is entitled to their opinion, they just have to express it effectively.

Thanks guys. The more orderly and well thought out your rage is, the more likely it is to be heard properly.

[jblitz]

So let me get this straight: first the game, while being a GFWL title, doesn't support the XBOX360 controller while the previous one did. When pressed upon 2K gives a weak excuse that they spent extra time into getting M+KB working correctly. Even though the game pretty much controls the same as the first one, consumers have to jump trough hoops to get the game working with the controller.

Bugs aren't fixed in the game, features that have been a standard in PC games aren't added, support has been pretty much below subpar. (No offence to you Elizabeth) And now DLC with what might contain vital plot points for the prequel to Bioshock isn't coming. Jeez, don't mind if I think twice before buying your next product . What I don't understand is how your other products do get the proper support even on the PC version. Support on Mafia 2 and Borderlands has been great so far, why can't the PC version of Bioshock 2 get the same level of support? For me games by 2K have gone from an instant buy to a wait until the GOTY version arrives or just downright ignore the games.

[SpottedPattern]

You don't have to wait 8 months for an answer - I summarized it pretty well (I thought) in that post. Timing and technical issues were the problem. And again, apologies for the delay - we did explore the options, which is why this took some time, but as I said before, I wanted to give you guys a full explanation when everything was finalized.

That answers why 2K Marin 1) can't be bothered to release a patch to fix the things that break the game for many for the original game and 2) why 2K Marin can't be bothered to fix the Metro Map Pack list problem.

Though both of those reasons are wholely unacceptable for 2 reasons also 1) You've taken money from people for a game that does not work 2) you've taken money from people for a DLC that does not work, that's 2 counts of theft on multiple occassions for each customer you've stolen from.

YOUR EXPLANATION DOES NOT ANSWER THE FOLLOWING 2 THINGS :

1) WHY NO PROTECTOR TRIALS FOR PC ?
2) WHY NO MINERVA'S DEN FOR PC ?

I simply think that the real explanation is that 2K Marin are useless and can't fix problems, most of which have been in place since the games release 8 months ago.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if GFWL has something to do with it also re: patches and DLC's, and Microsoft.

Either that or 2K Marin are so busy with the next project that PC users can go get shafted.

In any case it simply stinks that 2K Marin basically don't give a <expletive> about their PC customers besides being happy to steal lots of their money for broken products.

Not being a US citizen I'd suggest a few of you look at a class action against 2K Marin for stealing your money.

PS

[Drez]

Well - that is that.

I am not at all exaggerating when I say that BioShock 2 is my most regretted game purchase of the last five, maybe ten years.

Primarily because I had really high hopes for it.

No specific offense to you, Liz, but 2k Marin's handling of all this was abhorrent. I understand that the company's bottom line is important and a company answers to shareholders first and end users last but management of information flow was a real trainwreck here and often felt disingenuous even if you were being honest or simply bound to certain policies with regard to information dissemination. The goal may have never been to "lie" but a lot of what went on felt dishonest and I would say that that perception is 2k Marin's responsibility.

Even if you always expected that 2k Marin would be able to rectify the issues, the way things were communicated to us made it seem as though they definitely would be. Naïve on my part, I suppose, but I have always held Take Two, 2k Games, and - by extension - its subsidiaries, in high regard. I may just be one inconsequential voice here but I am very disappointed, and most of that disappointment stems from the treatment we have received rather than the actual glitches in the game I truly wanted to enjoy for the last eight months.

[SpottedPattern]

Funnily enough it's been nothing, nothing, fibs, nothing, nothing, lies, nothing, nothings for 8 months ..... I e-mail over a dozen magazines and online publication yesterday and 2K Marin actually give a prompt concise answer for once, go figure.

Oh and don't forget that class action lawsuit my US cousins across the pond, you've been sold 2 broken products and had your money stolen, go on, go have fun

[2K Elizabeth]

Funnily enough it's been nothing, nothing, fibs, nothing, nothing, lies, nothing, nothings for 8 months ..... I e-mail over a dozen magazines and online publication yesterday and 2K Marin actually give a prompt concise answer for once, go figure.

Oh and don't forget that class action lawsuit my US cousins across the pond, you've been sold 2 broken products and had your money stolen, go on, go have fun

This isn't why the answer came today (I didn't even know you did that!) - whether you believe me or not, this is something I've been working on for a while. Decisions like this aren't made instantly!

[Duped]

This is pathetic. First you break the game right before release. Then you fail to recognize the 16:10 HUD issue. The saddest part is you could not even fix it after all this time.

The reeks of incompetence and greed.

You have set yourself up for potential litigation with your recent statements. You either expressly said you would fix issues or alluded that you would in order to garner more sales. Now you admit it was a lie all along.

You cannot expect us to believe it took 8 months to figure out that these issues could not be fixed. Please. You knew right away it was not lucrative to take developers off other projects and patch something you already made your return back on.

If it did actually take this long and you honestly were working diligently on these issues, you seriously have some incompetent talent there.

You do realize that in this economy, well any for that matter, there are litigators just itching for a case like this. You have deep enough pockets to make it worth their while. Us users won't benefit any, but at least it would make you think twice before pulling this again.

I can throw a rock and hit 200+ lawyers from my office. I'm sure one of them will bite.

[vipe155]

This is an extremely disappointing decision. Perhaps fixing things like vending machines sounds are only "unfeasible" because of the time wasted since launch. Perhaps if those issues had been fixed back in February, when everyone was still on project, things could have been different. Also, not bothering with PC users and Minerva's Den is ridiculous.

This ordeal has made me uninterested in all things 2k. I will definitely wait a significant amount of time before picking up Bioshock Infinite, only after it is cheap or buy a used copy. Even so, I suspect Ken Levine won't allow his game out the door in similar condition. I wonder what he thinks about 2K Marin's Bioshock 2 hack job?